Kerbal Space Program patch 1.1.2 is now live!

45 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

You're telling me that in the current game, docking is impossible and will be for a few months? I find that quite hard to believe; that's a rather significant bug to not fix immediately. Why would they have not upgraded to 5.3 in the first place when they first did the 1.1 unity 5 transition?

What makes you think it is a Unity bug anyways? Who said that or where did you read that?

I remember reading it (Devnotes?) and I could be mistaken, which is why I said" If I am not mistaken".  Docking is not broken for everyone or even for most people.  1.1 was too far into release when the lastest version of Unity came out to use it.  since unity versions come out often since their stuff is rather buggy in new versions too.  Squad has to choose basically to never release an update or deal with it and try and find workarounds for unity bugs.  Which goes back to my comment "in hindsight they probably would not choose unity as the game engine if they could do it over".  

40 minutes ago, Steel Dragon said:

the fact that most issues (landing gear, Landing legs, docking ) all deal with colliders and the base unite 5 has a known collider issue it is a safe bet were dealling with a engine issue not a dev issue.

That being said I find it hard to believe this was not noticed in the QA prior to rolling out KSP 1.1?

It was but they did not have a way to fix it with out further delaying release for months until they could upgrade unity to the next Unity (wheels are very much a Unity thing).  And the bug was not discovered until they had already promised a release date, in the very near future.

Edited May 1, 2016 by mcirish3

9 minutes ago, Davryder said:

well Idk about Unity being the main issue other than the fact that the game basically had to be rewritten for the change for Unity 5, landing legs where fine before that and same with docking so its a brand-new issue(I think don't quote me on it).

it's not a terribly huge bug just an annoyance and also forgot to mention, for whatever reason I can't CTRL+left mouse on icons in staging to high-light and move them all at once.....just another annoyance I've noticed.

I also am unable to do this. I assumed this was intention (for some really weird reason), but maybe it is a bug?

7 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

I remember reading it (Devnotes?) and I could be mistaken, which is why I said" If I am not mistaken".  Docking is not broken for everyone or even for most people.  1.1 was too far into release when the lastest version of Unity came out to use it.  since unity versions come out often since their stuff is rather buggy in new versions too.  Squad has to choose basically to never release an update or deal with it and try and find workarounds for unity bugs.  Which goes back to my comment "in hindsight they probably would not choose unity as the game engine if they could do it over".  

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying. I'm curious, but do you have any idea why I, for example, experience the docking bug every time, while others (or most people, as you say), don't experience this bug? What is different about me, or other people, that I experience this bug but others don't?

Maybe if I knew that, I could fix it for myself. 

Just now, KocLobster said:

I also am unable to do this. I assumed this was intention (for some really weird reason), but maybe it is a bug?

either way it makes me wanna yell "I don't like it,please put it back to the way it was!" only most likely with a more "colorful" array of words.

3 hours ago, KocLobster said:

 

I made a similar post when 1.1 hit and nobody cared or listened either.

Everyone realizes that Squad could just throw their hands up in the air, stop updating KSP, and move on to something else, right? We are lucky that they are still updating this awesome game, and that we still are receiving support and updates.

As long as they are still raking in $, one would think they have an obligation to provide a product/service that actually works. Sick of excuses for any company that releases shoddy work, period. There is no hate from me here. Don't want to release a working non buggy product that is fine. Don't take my money then, I think is what most are saying here. Ever since EA got away with doing a shoddy release on a sim type product, everyone is doing it. There is no penalty to pay any more. Gee...I have an idea for a pre-alpha game! For only $60 this week only you can get in on the deal and even get a coffee cup at a reduced price!

 

See what I mean?

8 minutes ago, Thrundar said:

As long as they are still raking in $, one would think they have an obligation to provide a product/service that actually works. Sick of excuses for any company that releases shoddy work, period. There is no hate from me here. Don't want to release a working non buggy product that is fine. Don't take my money then, I think is what most are saying here. Ever since EA got away with doing a shoddy release on a sim type product, everyone is doing it. There is no penalty to pay any more. Gee...I have an idea for a pre-alpha game! For only $60 this week only you can get in on the deal and even get a coffee cup at a reduced price!

 

See what I mean?

Not attacking you  - don't read too much into this, but have you ever been in charge of a large complex project? Just curious. I once got threatened with a screwdriver by a dude who talked exactly like you.

Well done, chaps!

@SQUAD Where are you guys going for vacay?

Will we get dev note updates on when Sal's mojito is ready and when Harvester walks down to the beach and such?

51 minutes ago, Thrundar said:

As long as they are still raking in $, one would think they have an obligation to provide a product/service that actually works. Sick of excuses for any company that releases shoddy work, period. There is no hate from me here. Don't want to release a working non buggy product that is fine. Don't take my money then, I think is what most are saying here. Ever since EA got away with doing a shoddy release on a sim type product, everyone is doing it. There is no penalty to pay any more. Gee...I have an idea for a pre-alpha game! For only $60 this week only you can get in on the deal and even get a coffee cup at a reduced price!

 

See what I mean?

#horse armor, anyway Squad is trying the best they can with what and whom they have, what is it like 16 Devs and 6 others(event people, advertising and Lobbyists)? so I'm not too surprised, I've had this game since version 0.1.7 so fairly early, has always had bugs pop up after a public release of a new version, but they have always gotten straight to stomping them out within a few weeks.

this time around they had a game engine upgrade plus the regular type of up grading they usually do, so koodos to them. Also Yes they could throw their hands up and say "bye bye" and I wouldn't blame them, because a majority of they new players to the game don't know Squad, they don't know the work ethics and the amount of personal time and passion that the Team puts into this game and the new players seem to compare the work of the devs to larger companies and games like EA. The newer players also seem to complain about the bugs small or large a lot more to the point of frustration, then proceed to believe that the Devs don't care, which is unfair to the devs and must really dishearten them.

to the devs I'd like to say keep up the good work, I know you guys will be on the bug stomp again after a well deserved break from the mad rush of the 1.1&1.1.2 releases.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Davryder

The best Squad could do was leave the pre-release branch open until critical bugs were fixed. They instead decided to release, despite all the unresolved bugs in the bugtracker, because they just had to meet an arbitrary release date, so screw QA and specially screw anyone not using Windows.

This isn't the KSP of early access, the game is out and they are charging 40 bucks for it. I'm expecting some professionalism here and blaming everything to Unity3d doesn't cut it.

Edited May 1, 2016 by m4v
grammar

2 hours ago, JJE64 said:

EVERY job can say the same thing. Software/game development isn't special, except that it is apparently exempt from customer service concerns. The plumbing comparison is valid because we're not talking about the type of business, we're talking about the way you do business  

I did buy a product. I bought a computer game that was billed as released and marketable. I didn't invest in a Kickstarter project, I didn't join a club, I bought a product based on advertising and a promise of a good in exchange for currency. 

And as for those who think Squad would be justified in throwing up their hands and saying screw it and moving on, I would remind you of two things:

1.  Squad isn't a software company. This is a one-off thing for them. There isn't another project for them to go to, this is their whole deal  

2.  Bigger, actual established development houses have folded for less. This is a very competitive industry and Squad is lucky to have found a niche. The one product they make has never been stable and if they walked away from it now, it would probably be the end of Squad as a game maker.  If EA released a comparable game next month that actually worked as advertised, I'd be willing to wager that the vast majority of casual KSP players would buy it and KSP would go down as a footnote in game history, largely forgotten until it got rereleased as a gold classic on GOG in five years  

I bought this game at 1.0. As soon as it was released commercially I was one of those who said "shut up and take my money!"  I've since talked others into buying it and even bought it as a Christmas gift for one of my kids. But I'm sorry, as someone who DID buy a finished product, I've been sorely disappointed in it. 

 

I keep hearing complaints about Squad's 'customer service' as a core argument here, but really I would like to know what constitutes Customer Service in this case?  I understand the decision to release with a few undiscovered bugs was a bit hasty, but consider that they're pressured if they don't, and then griped at when they do.  They're working constantly to try and get the new stuff working right, but apparently that's STILL not good enough.

 

If I were to turn around and say I am the new self-appointed Customer Service Representative for Squad (Disclaimer, I'm not, this is a hypothetical), what would you like me to do about your product failure, good sir?  I can give you things like the list of bugs they are (or were) checking into.  What more would you like?  I could tell them, fix the bugs, but they're already working on that.  I could tell them not to release until it's ready, but then people will tell them to hurry up and release.

What is a complaint you have that Squad NOTCustomer Service can address for you?  Do you have a suggestion on how to solve it that we haven't looked into?

 

Dropping out of silly character, keep in mind that a LOT of bugs also don't show up during in-house testing, and only after the product has been released to the wild do some truly weird glitches start being found.  Things like this likely wouldn't be noticed by in-house staff.

 

 

Now, were this me making decisions, I'd actually look into an open beta a lot sooner than what was done.  Nothing finds bugs faster and more creatively than volume of users.  In the job I worked last year, I was tasked with hunting for bugs in OUR software for a few weeks.  53 bugs, 10 of them CTD priority, 5 of those requiring absolutely convoluted steps to reproduce.  Sometimes you have to deliberately do unusual things to the software to make it puke up errors.  Plug in numbers for letters, letters for numbers, check boxes that don't apply, drop down menus you don't need to, run subroutines that aren't relevant...  Ugly stuff.

 

An FOV fix? How do you even change the FOV?

@mcirish3 @mciann

I have looked but am unable to find the bug report on the bug tracker, nor can I find a related post on the forums. Can you, or anyone, please link me where I can find the docking port phantom force bug?

4 hours ago, Steel Dragon said:

the fact that most issues (landing gear, Landing legs, docking ) all deal with colliders and the base unite 5 has a known collider issue it is a safe bet were dealling with a engine issue not a dev issue.

That being said I find it hard to believe this was not noticed in the QA prior to rolling out KSP 1.1?

It *was* noticed.  I and others found and reported it during the open beta pre-release phase.   These reports were ignored, and 1.1 was released anyway.  

 

45 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

@mcirish3 @mciann

I have looked but am unable to find the bug report on the bug tracker, nor can I find a related post on the forums. Can you, or anyone, please link me where I can find the docking port phantom force bug?

See above for why I stopped bothering with the bug reporting system.  I haven't personally seen the docked phantom forces bug, but then again, I haven't attempted to dock ships in 1.1.x yet.

2 hours ago, KocLobster said:

@mcirish3 @mciann

I have looked but am unable to find the bug report on the bug tracker, nor can I find a related post on the forums. Can you, or anyone, please link me where I can find the docking port phantom force bug?

No I can not since I really don't remember where I read it.  I probably would have linked it already if I did.  I vaguely remember Devs commenting in that thread though.  But a fuzzy memory is a fuzzy memory.

@NathanKell  May happs you could speak to this?  Since you decidedly decided not to go on vacation.

3 hours ago, String Witch said:

An FOV fix? How do you even change the FOV?

You can change FOV in KSP with:

Mod Key (Left Alt in Windows) +  Mouse Scroll Wheel

4 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

 

I keep hearing complaints about Squad's 'customer service' as a core argument here, but really I would like to know what constitutes Customer Service in this case?  I understand the decision to release with a few undiscovered bugs was a bit hasty, but consider that they're pressured if they don't, and then griped at when they do.  They're working constantly to try and get the new stuff working right, but apparently that's STILL not good enough.

 

If I were to turn around and say I am the new self-appointed Customer Service Representative for Squad (Disclaimer, I'm not, this is a hypothetical), what would you like me to do about your product failure, good sir?  I can give you things like the list of bugs they are (or were) checking into.  What more would you like?  I could tell them, fix the bugs, but they're already working on that.  I could tell them not to release until it's ready, but then people will tell them to hurry up and release.

What is a complaint you have that Squad NOTCustomer Service can address for you?  Do you have a suggestion on how to solve it that we haven't looked into?

 

Dropping out of silly character, keep in mind that a LOT of bugs also don't show up during in-house testing, and only after the product has been released to the wild do some truly weird glitches start being found.  Things like this likely wouldn't be noticed by in-house staff.

 

 

Now, were this me making decisions, I'd actually look into an open beta a lot sooner than what was done.  Nothing finds bugs faster and more creatively than volume of users.  In the job I worked last year, I was tasked with hunting for bugs in OUR software for a few weeks.  53 bugs, 10 of them CTD priority, 5 of those requiring absolutely convoluted steps to reproduce.  Sometimes you have to deliberately do unusual things to the software to make it puke up errors.  Plug in numbers for letters, letters for numbers, check boxes that don't apply, drop down menus you don't need to, run subroutines that aren't relevant...  Ugly stuff.

 

I doubt there would have been so many complaints if it had stayed an opt-in beta until things had stablised.

Personally I wish that 1.1 was still a Beta.  People could try it, test it, etc, but it wouldn't poop all over Steam's door step.  Releasing a version with as many regressions as this doesn't do anyone any favours.

2 hours ago, MatBailie said:

I doubt there would have been so many complaints if it had stayed an opt-in beta until things had stablised.

Personally I wish that 1.1 was still a Beta.  People could try it, test it, etc, but it wouldn't poop all over Steam's door step.  Releasing a version with as many regressions as this doesn't do anyone any favours.

You do still have 1.0.5 available via the steam client.

On 30.04.2016 at 2:00 AM, ibanix said:

Because GOG takes 12-24 hours to validate the file and package it to work properly with GOG Galaxy.

Also, 1.1.1 was deliberately /not/ included on GOG at Squad's request due to bugs.

24 hours, you say? It's "STILL NOT ON GOG.COM"^TM. 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Dr. Jet

It's a weekend. Chill the frak out.

I swear, people are nothing but whiners these days on these forums.

18 minutes ago, ibanix said:

It's a weekend. Chill the frak out.

I swear, people are nothing but whiners these days on these forums.

But...but...but... I PAID for this product. It's my right to complain and whine, and it'd be wrong of me not to! 

37 minutes ago, ibanix said:

It's a weekend. Chill the frak out.

I swear, people are nothing but whiners these days on these forums.

If you define "these days" as "the days immediately following an update", you're absolutely right. It has been like that ever since 0.13.x. when i joined. (Defining "these days" as "the present days" obviously is wrong). It seems to be one of the development steps in KSP.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

Words

Ulysses, I've spoken my piece and counted to three.

Time to probably let this one go.  Bickering ain't gonna fix nothing.  Just have to wait around for Squad to release the next batch of fixes.

The answer to the ongoing Unity3D SNAFU is rather simple, IMO.

If Unity bugs keep screwing up releases, bear this in mind and stop making promises you cannot keep or committing to release dates you cannot meet.
If you get shafted by Unity bugs at the 11th hour, come out and say it how it is: The engine version we targeted has a bunch of bugs we can't fix, we're going to have to stay in beta / delay release until it's sorted.
I won't complain, promise.

The thing is, your customers didn't purchase a Unity tech demo, they bought a released game - so often they either don't know (it's not advertised on the store, is it?) or don't care what game engine you are using or how buggy it is. And they shouldn't have to.
KSP is marketed as a standalone game, so all bugs are treated as KSP bugs. This is to be expected, and releasing with serious bugs just makes you look like a bunch of amateurs, no matter how valid your reasons are. 
All the end-user sees is a buggy, unstable product, and this is exaggerated by the excessive hype over shiny new stuff that, come release day, doesn't work properly.
 

My gripes with 1.1 all come back to releasing a buggy build as the real deal. When a new major version is released with all the accompanying fanfare (and a half dozen exclamation marks) I fully expect to be able to start playing it immediately, without crashes or obvious bugs, and without convoluted workarounds.
Most certainly without rapid-fire, disruptive "hot fixes" that don't even address the underlying problems.

Just how many band-aids do you intend to stick on the physics / collision / wheels & legs issue anyway? Applying temporary hacks that don't fix the actual cause of the problem isn't a particularly productive use of time and resources IME.
The original problem will just crop up somewhere else, and I dunno about you, but I thoroughly dislike playing endless whack-a-mole whilst working to a deadline.

If anyone decides to build a similar game on an engine that isn't a giant-flaming-turd, I am going to take my custom over there. If OTOH Squad ever decides to do a release that isn't broken on day one - even if that means delaying said release by months to deal with engine bugs - I'll gladly wait around for it.

Right now, I'm going back to the apparently bug-free (not KSP, obviously) game I was playing before this "1.1 is out" false alarm. Wake me up when this one is fixed.

On 4/30/2016 at 7:45 AM, steve_v said:

Ok, just patched my (working) 1.1.1 up to 1.1.2, result:

./KSP.x86_64 
Set current directory to /home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing
Found path: /home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP.x86_64
Mono path[0] = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Managed'
Mono path[1] = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Mono'
Mono config path = '/home/steve/Games/KSP_linux-testing/KSP_Data/Mono/etc'
displaymanager : xrandr version warning. 1.4
client has 4 screens
displaymanager screen (0)(HDMI-0): 1920 x 1080
Using libudev for joystick management


Importing game controller configs
PlayerInitEngineNoGraphics settings: Could..... not preload global game manager #0   i=0
Failed to initialize player

On STDOUT, no game. Really guys? No log either.

 

It's a patcher problem. Go to the KSP Store and download a fresh copy of 1.1.2, and unzip it overtop your existing KSP_linux directory. That'll fix it.

1 minute ago, evilwombat said:

It's a patcher problem.

Thanks.
I actually figured that one out some time ago - after the apparently untested patcher screwed up a second install in the same way.
[sarcasm]My point in posting that was to illustrate the awesomely smooth and bug-free experience KSP hotfixes offer.[/sarcasm]

Edited May 2, 2016 by steve_v