Laie

Beware what you wish for... If you want reasonably accurate physics, the basic Realism Overhaul package is 95% of what you can even get in KSP. Persistent rotation is cool but adds complications of it's own, an Principia does the same, only more so. If you stick to a realistic progression and somewhat historical-like missions, you will not feel n-body physics. Ranger and Mariner missions play out exactly the same in terms of mission plan and dV requirement, and you'll be hard put to spot the difference on Apollo. Using Principia only means that you can no longer use all the common mission planning tools or node editors, though the latter may not be a problem depending on how well you get along with the Principia interface. And RP-0 has lately become a "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator", only that you have to keep your own spreadsheets outside of the game. Actual rocketry, when and if it happens, feels like a minigame hidden inside the tangle of funding, astronaut managment and part upgrades.

...and here I am, bringing not only a RV that's capable of a gliding (if somewhat rough) landing, but a parachute to boot. Sorry about not coming back to you earlier; I've silently added you to the front page but haven't taken the time to reply. I've been pretty busy over the week (and next week probably won't be any better), and this weekend I've flown my mission all over again with a slightly modified vessel. Above you see my lander/lifter; after many iterations I brought it down to 350k and was pretty confident it would be impossible to beat. You've given me quite a surprise when you *started* at that figure. Now I'm eager to get my own submission out of the door before it becomes obsolete. Sorry about that, I'll get back to you.

Nope, you got it wrong. You must carry ore tanks for this challenge (how else would you get ore from Eve to Gilly), but nowhere do I say that they have to be full at Launch Time. I do say that, given that you carry those tanks anyway, it would be nice to use them.... but that my attempts to come up with a rule to that effect have only created confusion. This is how I arrived at the "No mining or refining until you've landed on another body" rule. Strictly by the letter of the rule it is not forbidden to carry ore on Kerbin takeoff. If you want to do that, go ahead! It would be a dumb thing to do, however, as you're forbidden from refining that ore until you arrive elsewhere. My advice: launch with empty ore tanks and start mining when you arrive at your destination.

@jinnantonix regarding your PM, if you load ore on the pad you're still not allowed to refine it until you landed somewhere else. That's a bit silly, I have to admit, as you must carry large ore tanks and it makes sense to utilize them as well (I certainly would if I did this in a career context), but I couldn't come up with a simple and understandable rule... the first posts in this thread were people wondering what I was trying to say with regards to loading ore on the pad. Hence "No mining or refining until you've landed on another body" which I thought was pretty clear.

Here's what I tried... The assembly can launch as you see it; the tall payload can then shuttle between Minmus and LKO indefinitely. A very similar plane (without vector, and Monoprop fuselage instead of LFO) launches half-empty, is fully refuled in orbit, and returns to the runway. The first launch has a net cost of 120k (210 rollout, 90 recovery); the subsequent flights yield ~77k each. Only that it doesn't quite work as intended: the Minmus Shuttle is supposed to aerobrake into LKO and was carefully balanced to allow for high angles of attack. Unfortunately, the cargo bay malfunctions: once it's been opened, everything inside will create drag even when it's closed again. This upsets the aerodynamics, and while it can still aerobrake, it needs many passes to do so.

Pretty close. Arguably it would be even better if you left the mining equipment on Minmus to reduce dry mass for transfers, but that adds complications. Ultimately, X amount of free stuff arrives in LKO and everything you need to get it there is a one-time fee. Overall profitability is then determined by the launch cost of the shuttle. And yes, you very much want to land on the runway.

@jinnantonix Yep, I stated that the crew needs to be recovered. Emphasis in brackets has been added just now, but the sentence before has been there since day one. Regarding the use of Hyperedit, I determined that 2200m/s and a 2m/s² acceleration are sufficient for Minmus-Eve. I also still remember how long it took me to set up and perform all the maneuvers, and don't think it's strictly necessary for everyone to waste that much time. So if you follow that (by now) well-trodden path you may flare off the required amount of dV and just teleport. The "flare off" part is important, though, and if you insist to doing it on less dv or follow another flight plan, you're on your own. Regarding command chairs, you got it right: not for landing or ascent. ManEatingApe's command chair on the orbiter is fine, though, assuming it's just for control when docking. If some poor sod has to sit there for days or weeks, that's not okay.

Whoa, now we're talking business. Though, ahem, minor nitpick: you seem to have stranded your crew on Gilly, while I want a safe return. (checks front page) OK, I didn't put much emphasis on that point... then again I didn't expect that anyone would leave them on Gilly and call it a day. I don't want to force you to start over from scratch; even when including a return trip, your vessel should still stay under 400k. Quite generally, I've been wondering if I should cut down on the busywork. All the transfers take a lot of time set up and frankly, they're not that hard to do. We all know how much it takes to get to Minmus; show that you have enough and just teleport. Similarly, it took me 2200m/s to get from Minmus surface to a low Eve orbit on Gilly's inclination -- for all I care everyone may just flare off that amount and spirit their vessel into place. Talking about dV, would you be willing to share a few figures? How much did you need to get from Minmus Surface to LEO, and how much for the propulsive entry? It looks like you have prolly enough fuel, but in the name of due diligence I will download your craft, determine the dry mass, and do my own calculations from the resources you're showing... but a) I'm about to leave for a road trip and won't get to do that before monday at the earliest, and b), you're taking a great leap from Minmus Surface to Eve mid-entry. I don't think I'll have to see everything that happens in between, but some storytelling and data would be nice. Incidentally... KER would be perfectly alright, as would be the use of MJ or any other autopilot. (again checking fron page) Yup, I've been saying so from day one. I hope you and @jinnantonix haven't been holding back on the assumption that this was literally a pure stock challenge? And congratulations for making it work! It would have never occured to me to leave it dangling idle for the first part of the ascent, I always capped it off with a Mammoth -- leaving me without a deep space engine for getting to Even in the first place, and as an upper stage alone it's just too damn expensive. By using it for all the transfers you get your money's worth. Smart move!

As mentioned in my last post, I made a MM patch so the tanks are their own decouplers. Strictly speaking that's a mod, but I hope our host will allow everyone to use it: effectively halving the part count is very convenient once you start cramming hundreds of small tanks into a vessel. Even without, you can use the offset tool to shift the tank so that the tank+decoupler combo is no taller than the tank alone. I mount them as subassemblies, the parent of which is surface-attached to the inside of the cargo bay. Everything else dangles from the subassemblys' parent.

On the off chance that it might help someone, here's my tightest packages. Made using the rotation & offset tools, stored as subassemblies. Seven tanks in a Mk2 bay only works if absolutely nothing else is there. Beware of intruding wing pieces! The Mk2 ones can still be secured with autostruts, but the Mk3 assembly definitely requires real struts.

Erm... ahem... I'm sorry to say that I didn't pay any attention to this thread, but when I noticed the super-purty "LF SSTO" badges I wondered where they came from and this is why I'm here... Is there any chance to retroactively qualify? I could offer this, for example.

That's deploying 360 small bombs, which is as much as I could fit into the cargo bay. With that load it can barely take off. I also had to mod the game to make it possible at all. I'd like to call it the "IBM 360" -- I'm not good at backronyms, but maybe that's Intercontinental Bomb Mover or something. Other trials have been completed with a much simpler 119t payload (7 large ore tanks): maths, 100 boom, 119x4=1666 top speed 920m/s (though only briefly): 1840 maintenance -32.4 (120 parts) 360 convincing arguments +20 VAB smasher, Gentle Giant, Career Switch, Service Ceiling, Worldwide Coverage: +85 Total: 3678 Craft file: IBM 360 And, a small MM patch that equips the Radial Holding Tank with a built-in decoupler. If you have MM, just plop it somewhere in your Gamedata folder, you'll find the part under "payload" (where else?). @Kernel Kraken: would you possibly greenlight this and add it to the front page? It's a major quality-of-life improvement when trying to build ludicrous loads.