michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 I bet it's actually intermediate parts that I used. I had the converters from my stanford torus mod. I'll go back and see what I'm intended to use with MKS and EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashan Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nice mod. Finally I have something to do in KSP.One small notice. The glass of the domes would have to be hyperdiamond (graphene) in order to withstand the pressure. The frames should be more massive. Having some kind of shutters against imagined solar ejection events and micrometeoroid strikes on them is also desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro420 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Ok, those little dudes weigh 180 kilos? (For us Americans, that's almost 400 lbs.) Isn't that a bit heavy?EDIT: Jenny Kerman (Craig) could make a fortune there! Edited March 3, 2015 by Jethro420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 They do, counting the space suit as well (all the civies will have one for "emergency", kinda like how there's life preservers in every room on a cruise ship). You can test it too. Make a small ship with the EVA seat and a lander can. Use of Kerbal Engineer is helpful to see the mass of the ship, but you can also check it in the map view. Launch the test ship, record the mass. Have the kerbal get out and get in the seat, record the mass again. The difference is his weight. I saw 180kg difference but I may be off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ok, those little dudes weigh 180 kilos? (For us Americans, that's almost 400 lbs.) Isn't that a bit heavy?EDIT: Jenny Kerman (Craig) could make a fortune there!They might be civilians, but in space they're still astronauts and they have to wear vacc suits. That's where the mass comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCardinal Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ok, those little dudes weigh 180 kilos? (For us Americans, that's almost 400 lbs.) Isn't that a bit heavy?At first sight, it does seem somewhat on the heavy side. When taking the difference in density between Kerbal and Earth into account as well as the fact that Kerbals are about half the height of humans (and presumably length and width as well) one would expect a weight of around 125 kilos per Kerbal.But the size of the Kerbal head is very large in comparison to the height of a Kerbal. So 180 kilos could well be an accurate weight for a Kerbal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashan Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Kerbals are actually present as a part. KerbalEVA. You can get somewhere around half of their mass for your mod - let's assume that the suit+propellant weights rather a lot.With suit they weight 90 kilos. I guess extra 20 or so kilos for personal stuff would be enough. You can round up that to 120kg I guess. But 180 is waay too much imo. Edited March 3, 2015 by sashan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 I was thinking of my idea to integrate TAC and MKS for balance and I thought a different route. It would be easier for me to separate out the civilian resources from the crew ones. This will be happening tonight. This way I can avoid having to balance with existing life support systems for crew.BasicallyFood => CivilianFoodRight now CivilianFood will be a singular resource encompassing all of their basic life support needs : water, air, food. This opens a door for me to add these later. Look for the update to drop sometime around 6-7pm east today.Also i'll fix the door on the medium civilian quarters, the ladder isn't working right now so whoever you EVA from it is stuck outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverDude Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sounds nice. So basically they can manage their civvie population, and periodically 'recruit' for a new Kerbonaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sounds nice. So basically they can manage their civvie population, and periodically 'recruit' for a new KerbonautYep. I don't want to interfere with the balance in yours or other life support mods too. Crew life support management is already a matured feature with balance setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veryinky Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Wouldn't the weight of civilian kerbals include their personal belongings and baggage? 180 kilos seems fine to me if it includes stuff like camera/pda/cell phone+charger, portable computer, clothes for a couple weeks, maybe a pressure/space suit if they want to go EVA'ing. As a side note, most of the civilian apartments seem designed with gravity=down in mind, especially Small Civilian Apartment and it's beds on the floors. The Large Civilian Quarters and Civilian Apartment Complex imply it too with their window placement. Probably won't use the Small Civilian Apartment because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketguy7 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 it would be cool if you made it so instead of people just up in the docking thing you would click on the career in sandbox and like click something to fly a civilian or multiple up into space, using the contractor port thingy as a docking port, in career mode there would be a list of civilians who want to go to space and the would pay you to fly them there. the breeding system would remain the same. also i in later stages is the glass on the apartment and hydroponic biosphere things models going to show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Wouldn't be cool if I could add a civilian airport to the space complex screen . Make it look like the Virgin Galactic spaceport even. Alas that's something I'm afraid to touch.Glass on the gardens won't show up. The problem with this is I can't guarantee that anything behind the glass will get lit right or even be visible. I had problems with making the ring on my particle accelerator invisible while making things behind it show up.As far as the contractor dock... I plan to do an upgrade for the model. Right now it's like the stock kerbal can (the 4 man one) but I want to make it so you can actually dock a ship at it if you wanted. I'll borrow squad's claw thing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Bumping for 0.1.2 update.I'm no longer clashing with existing life support mods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidninjawombat Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 really neat stuff here! Im curious about the construction drone. Was looking at the cfg for it. Im assuming it uses your plugin to work correctly? (the automated construction module)Your models looks amazingly awesome BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 The automated construction drone uses my dll but has a config. (civilianmanagment/parts/constructiondrone/part.cfg) My dll extends the ExWorkshop class to allow adding productivity when the part is powered. So long as the drone is powered it will produce productivity.Interesting note: surprisingly there is no module missing exception when you use this mod without EPL installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Myk Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 watch out for the live mass of your ship growingKerbals don't care about conservation of mass and energy, they reproduce via whiteholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 That got me thinking... I'm going to address the whole conservation of mass thing. I also rechecked the weight of a kerbal. Here's what's going to happen.Civilian_food now comes from Civilian_water, a blend of water specific to the garden and farm modules. Density of 5kg per unit.Food gets a density of 5 kg per unit, and civilians produce Civilian_waste, also same density, which can be recycled.When you recruit a kerbal there is a new cost of 21 food (note: a kerbal's mass). This gets taken out of the water cycle, conserving mass. I'll probably use regolith to let someone farm the civilian water in situ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwaster Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Wouldn't the weight of civilian kerbals include their personal belongings and baggage? 180 kilos seems fine to me if it includes stuff like camera/pda/cell phone+charger, portable computer, clothes for a couple weeks, maybe a pressure/space suit if they want to go EVA'ing. As a side note, most of the civilian apartments seem designed with gravity=down in mind, especially Small Civilian Apartment and it's beds on the floors. The Large Civilian Quarters and Civilian Apartment Complex imply it too with their window placement. Probably won't use the Small Civilian Apartment because of that.Is 180kg really too much for a Kerbal in a spacesuit?The ISS suits alone mass 145kg. Add in 60-80kg worth of human and you've got 205-225kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyberSmoke Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 RE the earlier post for efficiency, you would have to either subclass or rebuild the efficiency code to include non-kerbonaughts, though I'd think it would make more sense to leave the actual base operations to the existing kerbonaughts.Depends on the development path. Early and midgame development of a colony would depend mainly on Kerbalnaughts of coarse. But after a time colonization should require an expanded and diverse labor force. This really is the basis for the nameless crew and the named officers. The guys piloting the ships and managing the day to day would remain the kerbalnaughts. But a moderate (say 1% per 10 kerbal population) could also be in place as you expand from Jeb and crew to a real populous colony.That is the thought a least Rover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro420 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Is 180kg really too much for a Kerbal in a spacesuit?The ISS suits alone mass 145kg. Add in 60-80kg worth of human and you've got 205-225kgI had no idea they were that heavy. That's really quite remarkable, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverDude Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Depends on the development path. Early and midgame development of a colony would depend mainly on Kerbalnaughts of coarse. But after a time colonization should require an expanded and diverse labor force. This really is the basis for the nameless crew and the named officers. The guys piloting the ships and managing the day to day would remain the kerbalnaughts. But a moderate (say 1% per 10 kerbal population) could also be in place as you expand from Jeb and crew to a real populous colony.That is the thought a least Rover.I guess the difference is that I'd assume a civvie becomes a scientist or engineer, and then goes into the workforce (at least from the MKS standpoint) or, you kinda have to rebuild the entire efficiency model (at least as far as MKS modules go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhester07 Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Why can't you have a civvie becoming a pilot? All it takes is him watching the trench scene from star wars and he'll be like "I can do that". I'd bet that's how Jeb got started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverDude Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Go for it Only mentioned the first two because they are the ones that folks would use the most as efficiency is a function of their class as well as level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatcasual Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) This looks good. I was thinking about how I could create/breed kerbals from my mature offworld bases. I am glad someone else has taken care of that.If you recruit a kerbal, does the civilian population size change? Does the population size stay constant (Provided they are provided all the necessary resources) or do they have a life expectancy? If they do have a life expectancy, are they recycled back into the resource system? I can't imagine jettisoning them makes sense if a space colony is trying to conserve their resources. I am not an expert on kerbal burial practices, other than the fact they sometimes explode or poof into nothingness.Growing a space colony is great. I am wondering if there is an endgame or advantage to growing the colony other than the challenge and kerbal recruitment. Kerbal recruitment alone makes this worthwhile for me.It occurred to me that if space tourism is involved, could this be used to generate funds?Thanks Edited March 4, 2015 by somewhatcasual additional idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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