[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Doodle]

Just out of curiosity... when I start a new playthrough now with USI-LS  can I add into it on a later point of time USI-MKS-Lite and upgrade the Lite one to the full one without having to start a complete new playthrough?

[goldenpsp]

17 minutes ago, Doodle said:

Just out of curiosity... when I start a new playthrough now with USI-LS  can I add into it on a later point of time USI-MKS-Lite and upgrade the Lite one to the full one without having to start a complete new playthrough?

Probably better asked in the MKS-L thread.  AFAIK there isn't really an actual "upgrade" path from MKS-L to MKS.  That being said full MKS isn't "that" much more complex than MKS-L.  All of the MKS-L parts are also in MKS so you can still build MKS-L style bases with MKS.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing.

[mcortez]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

And MKS is not that scary - it doesn't bite

No, but you are adding some rather ominous looking giant pincers into the construction pack.

[Doodle]

From a quick glance over the wiki for MKS... it has thousands and thousands of new pieces and a couple of hundret new resource types (atleast it feels like that on a first glance ) But hey I am trying now USI-LS

Oh and a first feedback to it already... (or maybe a question about the design decision) why are all the resource tanks (mulch/fertilizer/supplies) not split in different tech notes for the different sizes (small/medium/large diameter)  feels strange to have only small rocket parts but already a very large diameter supply tank avaible while being Tier 4 in Tech only

[RoverDude]

The hurdle of figuring out how to store food in space is the big one.  Making bigger cans, not so much.  Tho I can see a case for moving them around a bit

[invultri]

On 6/23/2016 at 8:10 PM, DStaal said:

Interesting. 

As for your power issues: Try fuel cells, they may help.

 

 

That could work but only if the process of fuel cells was reversible. Maybe there is a mod for that ...

 

 

[DStaal]

3 hours ago, invultri said:

 

That could work but only if the process of fuel cells was reversible. Maybe there is a mod for that ...

I think Universal Storage has some.  (Note: Their fuel cells run on H2 and LOX, not liquidfuel and oxidizer.)

[Gooner]

If i wanted to make kerbals use the same amount of supplys in a day in Rss as they do with stock, what would i need to change in the config please?

[mcortez]

You'll need to recalculate the number of supplies that need to be consumed per second.  Right now it's (16.2 / (6 * 60 * 60)) which works out to 0.00075.

If you want to consume 16.2 over 24 hours, instead of over 6, then you'll need to go with (16.2 / (24 * 60 * 60)) or ~ 0.0001875.

You can change this by using the in-game settings menu, which I believe is accessed via one of the tool bar buttons while at the KSC.

You can also modify what happens when you run out of habitation or supplies there.

[Gooner]

21 hours ago, mcortez said:

You'll need to recalculate the number of supplies that need to be consumed per second.  Right now it's (16.2 / (6 * 60 * 60)) which works out to 0.00075.

If you want to consume 16.2 over 24 hours, instead of over 6, then you'll need to go with (16.2 / (24 * 60 * 60)) or ~ 0.0001875.

You can change this by using the in-game settings menu, which I believe is accessed via one of the tool bar buttons while at the KSC.

You can also modify what happens when you run out of habitation or supplies there.

I've seen the options in the in-game gui but changing anything there didn't have any effect on supplys, the habbitation gui works fine though.... hence i was wondering if i changed somethng in the actual config to get it working but im not sure exactly what.

 

Edit..

I found the option in the config file but again changing the value there has no effect at all, also changing the supply amount in the in game gui does nothing at all, so i guess its bugged atm

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gooner

[Bishop149]

I think I've spotted a small bug. Stating for the record that I only have USI-LS installed as the dependency for USI-MKS due to so I can't be 100% sure exactly which mod is responsible.

The stock science lab has a life support recycler function added to it, the UI for this appears to partially reset on every scene change. Click on the "Start Life Support" button and it will toggle to "Stop Life Support" whilst Life Support will be listed as "Operational". All as it should be. Change scene and then change back and whilst the button still says "Stop Life Support" but the life support status is listed as "Inactive". The screenshot below shows that state.

Functionally it seems to make no difference, even in this state the 3 kerbals I had aboard are consuming only 30% of what they would under zero recycling. This is reflected both in the Life support status window (shown) and in actual consumption rate of the supplies. So not a major bug, just a small one with that UI readout.

[Gooner]

Any help on my issue? is it just me that can't change any life support configs? My save is on hold till i can get this sorted.

As it stands you need 4x the amount of supplys if using Rss to have equal the amount of days stocked on the vessel as the stock kerbal system, and as we know Rss is around 10x bigger then stock. So as it stands with the current config its not balanced at all well for Rss but like i said any attempts to change the config file show me no effect in game as supplys consume at default rates...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gooner

[panarchist]

9 hours ago, Bishop149 said:

I think I've spotted a small bug. Stating for the record that I only have USI-LS installed as the dependency for USI-MKS due to so I can't be 100% sure exactly which mod is responsible.

The stock science lab has a life support recycler function added to it, the UI for this appears to partially reset on every scene change. Click on the "Start Life Support" button and it will toggle to "Stop Life Support" whilst Life Support will be listed as "Operational". All as it should be. Change scene and then change back and whilst the button still says "Stop Life Support" but the life support status is listed as "Inactive". The screenshot below shows that state.

Functionally it seems to make no difference, even in this state the 3 kerbals I had aboard are consuming only 30% of what they would under zero recycling. This is reflected both in the Life support status window (shown) and in actual consumption rate of the supplies. So not a major bug, just a small one with that UI readout.

Have you tried using just UKS and USI-LS in another game install?  It looks like you have a pretty heavily-modded install, and while I don't think KSP-I has any direct conflicts with either USI mod, it gets a lot harder to troubleshoot what's responsible when there are several game-changing mods installed.

 

[RoverDude]

22 minutes ago, Gooner said:

Any help on my issue? is it just me that can't change any life support configs? My save is on hold till i can get this sorted.

As it stands you need 4x the amount of supplys if using Rss to have equal the amount of days stocked on the vessel as the stock kerbal system, and as we know Rss is around 10x bigger then stock. So as it stands with the current config its not balanced at all well for Rss but like i said any attempts to change the config file show me no effect in game as supplys consume at default rates...

Just pop open the USI-LS UI from the space center - configs are only defaults.  Also remember the numbers are large because they assume Gemini level tech (no recyclers!)

[Gooner]

14 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Just pop open the USI-LS UI from the space center - configs are only defaults.  Also remember the numbers are large because they assume Gemini level tech (no recyclers!)

The gui dosn't work for supplys, when i change it and go into the VAB it reverts back to the default settings. Like i said Habbitation settings work from there but supplys dont and even changing the amount in the actual config file still has no effect. No matter what i do supplys for the 1.25 tank will stay at 7 days and 17 hours. so to get a month i need 4 of them.. :/

 

I tried to change the values in the parts config but the issue with this workaround was the mass was still too high even when lowering the mass amount of the part. I have no idea how to change the mass of actual supplys and not the containers

 

 

I found my issue, there is 2 life support config files. One in the UKS folder and 1 in the life support folder changing to the value i want in both resulted in it working now in game \o/

Hope this helps anyone else having this issue.

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gooner

[panarchist]

On 6/24/2016 at 0:19 PM, goldenpsp said:

AFAIK there isn't really an actual "upgrade" path from MKS-L to MKS.  That being said full MKS isn't "that" much more complex than MKS-L.  All of the MKS-L parts are also in MKS so you can still build MKS-L style bases with MKS.

None of the MKS-L parts are in MKS - though there are many of them using the same models.  The Ranger series has different stats, resources, and utilization rates than its MKS-L analogues.  One challenge with that is that what is "balanced" in MKS-L might not be in MKS.  Depending on how you've designed your ships/ bases it could potentially cause issues in a save game.  It's easier if it's started with a new save.

I have one save game which has some issues because the legacy craft in there are sometimes using a older version of MKS / USI-LS - they have resources that aren't used anymore, and I just never de-orbited the ship / orbital station in question.  Which leads me to a question I've been meaning to ask:

@RoverDude - is MKS and USI-LS mostly static now, in terms of mechanics, or are there likely to be additional changes?  (more major than "tweaks", I mean) 

[goldenpsp]

8 minutes ago, panarchist said:

None of the MKS-L parts are in MKS - though there are many of them using the same models.  The Ranger series has different stats, resources, and utilization rates than its MKS-L analogues.  One challenge with that is that what is "balanced" in MKS-L might not be in MKS.  Depending on how you've designed your ships/ bases it could potentially cause issues in a save game.  It's easier if it's started with a new save.

I have one save game which has some issues because the legacy craft in there are sometimes using a older version of MKS / USI-LS - they have resources that aren't used anymore, and I just never de-orbited the ship / orbital station in question.  Which leads me to a question I've been meaning to ask:

@RoverDude - is MKS and USI-LS mostly static now, in terms of mechanics, or are there likely to be additional changes?  (more major than "tweaks", I mean) 

Well same parts in terms of form factors.  You totally can still build bases in MKS using the similar inflatable parts you would use in MKS-L.  But yes maybe I should have clarified it may not play 100% the same but you can still build with the same kinds of parts.

[panarchist]

8 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Well same parts in terms of form factors.  You totally can still build bases in MKS using the similar inflatable parts you would use in MKS-L.  But yes maybe I should have clarified it may not play 100% the same but you can still build with the same kinds of parts.

Well, I think you got the gist of it spot on, I just don't want people to think it's plug-n-play interchangeable.  Like you said, there's no upgrade path.  I think given that most of us probably over-engineer our supply chain, so unless you're min-maxing the system for efficiency, (and if you're doing that, you're probably already using full MKS) the only issue is that there may be a resource needed in MKS that isn't in LITE which might bring the chain to a halt with a particular base, or that base may not have storage for that resource.

[Arglebargle]

Where can I edit the cost of the supplies resource? I know the price was reduced, but I'm still coming up with tanks of food that cost as much or more than the rocket to lift them to LKO.

[RoverDude]

You don't, not without breaking stuff.

tbh I am surprised the cost is still that far off - it's down to 2.5 funds per liter (or about 40 funds per kerbal per day).  You might want to consider recyclers, as that's going to drop your payload mass and of course reduce your costs.

[tsaven]

3 hours ago, Arglebargle said:

Where can I edit the cost of the supplies resource? I know the price was reduced, but I'm still coming up with tanks of food that cost as much or more than the rocket to lift them to LKO.

Are you sure you've got the latest version of USI or UKS installed?  There was a bug with a prior version where Kontainers of Supplies and a few other things were insanely expensive, but I understand it's been fixed in the latest update.

[Apollo13]

My "HAbitat" has expired.  What is needed for the Kerbal?

[tsaven]

7 minutes ago, Apollo13 said:

My "HAbitat" has expired.  What is needed for the Kerbal?

You need to give them more living space.  Empty pods or crew cabins will do the trick, but other parts can act as multipliers.  Check the USI-LS Wiki for the "Habitation" section: https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/wiki/Quick-Start:-Habitation

[RoverDude]

Also at this time the only way to resuscitate a Kerbal is to send them home.  Though UKS will soon have a few ways to fix that.

[tsaven]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Also at this time the only way to resuscitate a Kerbal is to send them home.  Though UKS will soon have a few ways to fix that.

Kerbal Xanax?  Kanax?