[DEVTHREAD]Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[Angelo Kerman]

Angel! I have a request... your science lab module is so awesome I think all the science labs should work off it. Would there be a good way to do a MM config that would apply it to other parts that have ModuleScienceConverter? Or, to add it manually via MM patch to named parts? (I'm thinking the MKS pioneer, the stock lab, Kerbal Planetary Base Systems science lab, etc). I'm even thinking maybe differing values. Like the heavier and larger bases may have more storage or a bigger multiplier, but of course less mobile, can't be packed up, etc.

I tried it myself last night and didn't work, so not sure what I was missing out on. I'm more than happy to write the patch and share if that helps things.

All you need to do is replace the ModuleScienceConverter with WBIScienceConverter. Something like this:

@PART

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleScienceConverter]]

{

@MODULE[ModuleScienceConverter]

{

@name = WBIScienceConverter

}

}

This will give you the basic right-click context menu buttons. The fancy UI is part of Pathfinder's operatins manager and I'd have to add an extra button to display it independently of the manager (which is easy to do). I'll look at that for next release.

LMAO! You used the recycling icon. I was integrating that into my decal for the Recyclables material then changed it because I was betting that you had it in mind for something either greenhouse or material re-use related. Thank you so much for all the connector ports - that will make laying out bases SOOoooo much easier.

I do a ton of work with labs and MM so are you specifically looking at having the pieces from Pathfinder that allow for the Rep/Funds conversion?

Yup! Reducing part count is good, hopefully it's not killing the framerate too.

[EdusacconBR]

can i use this mod without CRP, like if they were stock parts bases?

[Angelo Kerman]

can i use this mod without CRP, like if they were stock parts bases?

Good question. The mod is tied to CRP, so you'd have to do a lot of modifications to the resource converters to do away with CRP resources. It's possible but it would be difficult to do.

[rasta013]

can i use this mod without CRP, like if they were stock parts bases?

In theory you could convert all the material requirements over to Ore to match the stock system with an MM patch and it would work. That said, you'd lose a ton of the flavor the mod gives you because of the use of CRP. It would be kind of akin to converting MKS to using strictly Ore and while not as drastic as that would be, it's a good comparison.

[EdusacconBR]

aw. i have no idea of how to do MM patches xD

[Angelo Kerman]

Angel! I have a request... your science lab module is so awesome I think all the science labs should work off it. Would there be a good way to do a MM config that would apply it to other parts that have ModuleScienceConverter? Or, to add it manually via MM patch to named parts? (I'm thinking the MKS pioneer, the stock lab, Kerbal Planetary Base Systems science lab, etc). I'm even thinking maybe differing values. Like the heavier and larger bases may have more storage or a bigger multiplier, but of course less mobile, can't be packed up, etc.

I tried it myself last night and didn't work, so not sure what I was missing out on. I'm more than happy to write the patch and share if that helps things.

Ok, next update you'll have a MM_CommercialSciLab.txt file. Rename it to MM_CommercialSciLab.cfg if you want to add the Doc Commercial Science Lab's functionality to all parts that have a ModuleScienceConverter.

[p14082003]

How do you get Mettalic Ore with this Mod?

[Angelo Kerman]

How do you get Mettalic Ore with this Mod?

You can modify the Gold Digger drill to drill for all sorts of resources. There's currently a bug that I'm working on so next release you really will be able to modify the drill.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's another preview: the Hot Springs Geo Thermal Plant!

[MaverickSawyer]

You can modify the Gold Digger drill to drill for all sorts of resources. There's currently a bug that I'm working on so next release you really will be able to modify the drill.

Okay, so I won't need the whole EPL pack when you're done... just the .dll, mallet, and survey stake?

Here's another preview: the Hot Springs Geo Thermal Plant!

http://i.imgur.com/frkBwoX.jpg

Hmm... I'd limit the planetary bodies that works on... Kerbin, Duna, Eve, and the Joolian moons.

[Der Kosmos]

This is a nice idea, but what's the advantage of using Ponderosas over Hitchhiker containers? A Ponderosa, three containers full of rocket parts, and a Saddle, all add up to more than a Hitchhiker container. With the Ponderosas you also need to either shove them all in a Conestoga (as large as a hitchhiker and adding a whole tone of mass) or find a way to carry 4 containers, 5 if you want one for mineshafts, saddles, and other goodies. With a hitchiker, you really just need to attach some fuel tanks, engines, landing legs, and a probe core to have an instant habitat.

Perhaps reducing the amount of rocket parts required? I might end up just using this mod for the mine-shafts.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Der Kosmos

[MaverickSawyer]

The big advantage is the fact that they're fairly compact when stored, allowing you to bolt it to the side of your rover/rocket hopper and go exploring for the best spot to set up a more permanent base using the Hitchhikers.

[rasta013]

And the fact that Hitchhikers can't be reconfigured in the field to be whatever you want/need them to be...

[Der Kosmos]

The big advantage is the fact that they're fairly compact when stored, allowing you to bolt it to the side of your rover/rocket hopper and go exploring for the best spot to set up a more permanent base using the Hitchhikers.

Compact-ness isn't as important as mass or part count, and A Ponderosa is almost as big as a Hitchhiker when you consider it needs Three containers full of rocket parts. Not to mention saddles and mineshafts. As for the reconfiguring aspect, maybe just make the reconiguring more expensive to balance. It definitely shouldn't weigh more than a Hitchiker in any configuration.

It ought to be lighter than the Hitchhiker because the Hitchhiker has a lower part count and can be used on a mobile vehicle. The factor balancing Ponderosas is that they are stationary instillation that can only be deployed to a planet's surface. You mention bolting them to the side of the rover, but there's no reason not to just build a rover with a built in hitchhiker, or the Mk2 crew cabin which is even lighter.

If it only needed say, 300 or 600 rocket parts, I'd say it would be fair, but as it stands it's way too clunky unless you have an IRSU setup already in place.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Der Kosmos

[Angelo Kerman]

You get more than just a place to park your kerbals. While I might look at the RocketPart cost for the Ponderosa habitat template and compare it to the hitchhicker in termsmof mass, the rest of the template are reasonable to me. But if it bugs you that much, you could eddit the config files to suit your liking or press Alt P to bring up the Settings menu and turn off tthe need for RocketParts alltogether.

[Der Kosmos]

I have no problem if it's more expensive than a Hitchhiker. I just think a 4 man habitat should not weigh more than a Hitchhiker. I'd suggest cutting the rocket parts down to 600 or even 300. Maybe make the more advanced options more expensive to compensate.

[p14082003]

So in the next update I will be able to get MetallicOre?

[Angelo Kerman]

I have no problem if it's more expensive than a Hitchhiker. I just think a 4 man habitat should not weigh more than a Hitchhiker. I'd suggest cutting the rocket parts down to 600 or even 300. Maybe make the more advanced options more expensive to compensate.

Actually, I double-checked, the Ponderosa template, it masses 1.5 tons and needs 600 RocketParts. The geology lab needs more RocketParts IIRC. I think Engineers can reduce the RocketPart further. If not then they will.

- - - Updated - - -

So in the next update I will be able to get MetallicOre?

Yes. You are supposed to be able to do that now but there is a bug in the drill switch code.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so I won't need the whole EPL pack when you're done... just the .dll, mallet, and survey stake?

Hmm... I'd limit the planetary bodies that works on... Kerbin, Duna, Eve, and the Joolian moons.

Yes you won't need the whole EL pack but the parts are still useful.

I will look into limiting the geo thermal plant, good idea. I need a more generic plant, probably one earlier in the tech tree and is a kind of diesel electric that runs on monopropellant and generates less EC than the geothermal plant.

[Der Kosmos]

Actually, I double-checked, the Ponderosa template, it masses 1.5 tons and needs 600 RocketParts. The geology lab needs more RocketParts IIRC. I think Engineers can reduce the RocketPart further. If not then they will.

Oh dear, I must have had it misconfigured. Sorry, my mistake. Definitely like the idea of engineers being able to reduce that down to 300.

[Der Kosmos]

Found a bug. There should be enough rocket parts left over to convert the empty boxes into batteries, but it says I need more even though I clearly have enough.

[Angelo Kerman]

Oh dear, I must have had it misconfigured. Sorry, my mistake. Definitely like the idea of engineers being able to reduce that down to 300.

http://i.imgur.com/B112hIs.jpg

Found a bug. There should be enough rocket parts left over to convert the empty boxes into batteries, but it says I need more even though I clearly have enough.

No worries, I'm putting a spreadsheet together so I can play with the different templates, masses, and RocketPart costs with 0 to 5 star discount. Thanks for the bug report too. The actual cost is 50 RocketParts for the Buckboard, looks like there's an error in the message.

[Der Kosmos]

Sometimes it says 11 other times it says 15 broken either way.

Also, will the inflatable science lab count as a research lab when it comes to filling contracts?

[Angelo Kerman]

Sometimes it says 11 other times it says 15 broken either way.

Also, will the inflatable science lab count as a research lab when it comes to filling contracts?

Not no more it ain't, fixed that issue. For the science lab, I don't know. If the contract checks for a ModuleScienceLab or ModuleScienceConverter then it should.

[p14082003]

Thanks for replying. I'm excited about the update. Any release date yet?

[Der Kosmos]

Well, it seems that even if it does, it weighs almost twice as much as the stock lab. Again, if the rocket parts cost reflects the enhanced utility of the other configurations, then those configurations should be what requires the most parts, just a basic inflatable version of the science lab should be lighter than a stock science lab because it lacks the structural elements, and is balanced by the fact that you need to set it up.

[rasta013]

Well, it seems that even if it does, it weighs almost twice as much as the stock lab. Again, if the rocket parts cost reflects the enhanced utility of the other configurations, then those configurations should be what requires the most parts, just a basic inflatable version of the science lab should be lighter than a stock science lab because it lacks the structural elements, and is balanced by the fact that you need to set it up.

My main questions I have here after following this discussion of weights, rocket parts etc etc...

1) If you have issues with carrying the rocket parts with you, why not build them on site instead? This mod gives you the buildings you need in order to do that without having to carry a massive amount of parts...

2) If you have issues with weights of any of the structures, again, why not build them on site? Using the Workshop from the Ponderosa or the Clockworks from the Hacienda, you can build out your entire base by simply harvesting the materials you need and building everything there without having to carry very much at all.

The costs to convert the buildings are fairly reasonable, especially as you start gaining experience with your engineers/scientists and the ability to switch functionality of any part you want is a HUGE advantage to have in the field and reasonably should cost a fair amount in order to utilize. I've been playing with this mod since before Angel added in the costs to swap the buildings and not once have I encountered an issue where I was looking at the costs and wondering why they were so high. This also applies to the weights of the structures since I no longer carry them with me and instead build on site.