Gaalidas

[Plugin/Parts] Kerbal Foundries - Continuation [Latest: 1.9g]

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Gaalidas    264

I have been given the blessings and permissions to continue the Kerbal Foundries mod in the absence of our fearless leader lo-fi. He's moved on, more or less. Considering all the work he's put forth to reinvent the wheel, quite literally, I believe he has more than earned a long vacation. I don't believe he's gone for good, but we may not actually hear a lot from him. However, I share in his vision and still have a lot of interest in this simulation (I prefer not to call KSP a game since it is so much more.)

New: (10/27/2015)

Forum user "run1235" has done some work on getting some of the KF parts into appropriate CTT (Community Tech Tree) nodes, and I have compiled those configs into an easy MM (Module Manager) patch. Once decompressed, the GameData folder within is ready to be simply dropped on top of your existing one. Nothing will be replaced... at least I don't think it will. The file is using a new directory structure that will be used when I update this mod next, but should be fully compatible with whatever you all have installed right now. Of course, it goes without saying that you'll need Module Manager and CTT installed to see any effect from this patch. (Yeah, I just said it... so I guess it goes with saying, eh?) Archive is located here: Dropbox Link

The following is a statement regarding support of a certain 3rd Party tool, or the apparent lack thereof.

I do not support the use of CKAN or any other mod-updating tool. No one is stopping you from trying it but, if it fails, it is not my problem. I will not write extra batch files to force this tool/utility to recognize the new version of the MOD that is available. The problem exists within the tool/utility and it is the job of those authors to fix the problem with how they handle such things if it is worth their time to do so. The only supported way of installing this mod is the way everyone installed mods before CKAN came along, and that is to drag the folder into GameData directly from the zip. It isn't too difficult to track new versions of the mod on your own, or through the KerbalStuff subscription system. If/When KSP releases an official mod managing application, I will do everything possible to make sure everything works as intended.

It is not my intention to be the rear end of a mule to anyone by saying this, but the fact remains that I am only the new maintainer of this mod and for the last year or so I have only been contributing to it with no access to the KerbalStuff release page. KerbalStuff does not allow me to change the version numbers for past releases, so the best I can do is remove the errant releases from the site to fix any issues people might be having with a 3rd party mod manager. that I have done, and that is all that I can do at this time. This has nothing to do with willingness to work on a solution, but rather has to do with my limited time and energy to worry about it. The only true reason I am taking the lead with KF right now is because I do not want to see it simply disappear with the disappearance of lo-fi from the modding scene. This is not to say that new and exciting things are not being worked on, but I cannot spend as much time on it as I used to. Unfortunately this also means I won't be able to re-publish to KerbalStuff, or work on moving everything over to my github repository for the continued work at this time.

So please take this into consideration before you send me a private message with some new idea about how I can fix CKAN or how I should be taking better care of version numbering for releases that were published before I took over the mod.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Old News: (pre-10/27/2015)

Now, on to some newer stuff. I'm working on writing a set of modules that might make it easier to convert old wheels to the KF modules. I make no promises, but there are some parameters that can be brought it automatically from the existing ModuleWheel information about the wheel itself such as the transform names and collider names. Other values can be initialized at their defaults and work with most wheels that have been created for KSP. Ideally, one would still write their configs specifically for the KF modules, but I might be able to make it easier to do quick and dirty conversions by simply adding a new module to the config and letting the plugin do the work at run time.

I'm also dabbling in making DustFX into something that will work on KF wheels, stock wheels, landing gear, etc. without requiring separate plugins to be loaded. In that same line of development is an attempt to make the KF functionality more modular allowing for wheels that have no suspension to speak of, but could still use the more efficient steering mechanisms. The opposite is also desired, having a wheel that has no steering at all but still could use the suspension system.

Finally, I am working on a way to re-use the WaterSlider module to make tracks/wheels/screws usable in water. The plan is to basically place the water slider slightly under the water, but high enough that the craft can still be considered not-splashed. The wheels/tracks/whatever would then have a solid surface to roll over. There would, of course, be code written to maintain a higher drag on the craft due to having to displace water instead of atmosphere like a rover does on land. I'm also going to try and make the depth of the slider panel respond to the scale of the wheels on the craft but, with multiple wheels capable of having different scales, keeping track of what depth should be used could be tricky. All of this is being done, however, to circumvent the issues with buoyancy, annoying splash effects, and stability in water. The inspiration is to imitate an over-filled, monster-sized tire on a small vehicle allowing the vehicle to float and/or maintain enough speed on the water to hydroplane across the surface in a semi-controlled manner.

So, that's my news so far. Fixing links and such for this thread is still on the to-do list, but it all comes down to time and energy. I don't get out of my later class until 7:40pm on most week days, so I end up with little time to do any hobby work.

Edited by Gaalidas

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DocMop    58

Looking forward to this. Just post the weird stuff, I'm sure someone can make sense out of it. Will check this as often as I can ;)

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smjjames    491

Hey Gaalidas, cool that you're continuing this. :D

Anyways, I found an exception. I didn't see a download for version 1.9h somewhere, so, I'm using 1.9g atm.

When paused, the dustFX gives an exception:


NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at KerbalFoundries.KFDustFX.OnPause () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at EventVoid.Fire () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at FlightDriver.SetPause (Boolean pauseState) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at PauseMenu.Display () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at PauseMenu.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

The first time I saw it was going to KSC, but it's reproducible just by hitting esc (or whatever pause is bound to) while moving and the dust FX is going. Edit: It fires one on unpause too.

Edited by smjjames

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Gaalidas    264

Okay, turns out I'm more burnt out with this stuff than I thought. I continue to work on this, but getting things all sorted will take more time. It's always really bad when long-term KSP players feel that imminent "update day" looming on the horizon and, with it, all the issues that come with updating mods for compatibility.

As for that DustFX error... I was sure we'd squashed that a long time ago. I'll look into it. Also, 1.9h is actually my internal version that I never released because it's just not really done yet. I'll update the thread to reflect that. When I do a release next, I'll probably just start fresh with version 2.0.

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FungusForge    279

Speaking of dustFX, is there any chance of somehow making the effects larger for the larger wheels?

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Enceos    1348

Hi Gaalidas,

Do you happen to have an access to the model files? I decided to cut out the repulsors and tracks to leave only wheels and I can't find which textures are tied to the MediumWheel.mu and LargeWheel.mu, would you please take a look?

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Gaalidas    264
Hi Gaalidas,

Do you happen to have an access to the model files? I decided to cut out the repulsors and tracks to leave only wheels and I can't find which textures are tied to the MediumWheel.mu and LargeWheel.mu, would you please take a look?

So, this is actually very easy to look up. You can open a .mu file with any text editor (the simpler the better, I use Notepad++) and at the very button on the file you will see the texture references. The file extension will usually not match quite right, but KSP doesn't bother with file extensions anyway. In any .mu file you look at, in this way, you will always find the texture references at the very button, with a lot of junk characters between them, but you'll notice them.

For example:

In MediumWheel.mu, on the button two lines when opened in Notepad++, you will likely see something like this:

RepulsorWheel         €?  €?        ÿÿÿÿ  €?  €?           ?   ?   ?  €?   =RepulsorSurfaceTexture        €?  €?        ÿÿÿÿ  €?  €?           ?   ?   ?  €?   =GimbalInner        €?  €¿        µ´T?¢‰=¢‰=  €?N
R> €? €? ÃÂK? €? €? RepWheel-diffuse.png RepulsorSurfaceDiffuse.png electric.png Emissive.png

Now, that looks like a lot of bovine excrement, am I right? Of course I am... Also the forum won't show the really funky characters, but you'll get the idea. What you do see are some textures: "Repwheel-diffuse.png", "RepulsorSurfaceDiffuse.png", "electro.png", "Emissive.png"

The most important of those textures is "Repwheel-diffuse.png" since this is the only one you actually see, but it also has those others due to the fact that the same model was planned to be used for the transforming Repulsor-Wheel. If you don't mind "no texture found" errors in your log for this model, then you can stick with just that first texture and it should work okay. Alternatively, you could feed it some 1x1 pixel blank textures with the same name and it will simply use those, but use barely any ram space for them.

I'd like to optimize all of that a lot more, but my hands are tied at the moment.

Edited by Gaalidas

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Gaalidas    264

Once I'm further into this quarter of school and get financial aid to stop trying to screw me over, I'll update everything on the OP and get a fresh KerbalStuff entry put up with all my new developments for KF. That's probably another week away, roughly speaking. Today I was going to try and do some work on it, until I discovered that my financial aid had been dropped on me back in July and no one thought they should maybe tell me about it.

I will point out that once I get a better understanding of the modules that lo-fi made to convert non-KF wheels to use KF, I would love to see what can be done about your awesome wheels that I just couldn't install because lo-fi ruined stock wheel modules for me when he created his new wheels that are oh so awesome with their suspension and stuff.

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sigmareaver    2

Hey there, if you are open to suggestions I wanted to suggest an idea for the anti-grav parts. My idea for the anti-grav parts to apply force that scales based on the inverse square of the altitude from the terrain under the part. The main effect my idea aims for would be to create a dampening cushion effect as the anti-grav vehicle falls to the ground (be it dropped from the sky, or it drives off a cliff).

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qm3ster    11
Once I'm further into this quarter of school and get financial aid to stop trying to screw me over, I'll update everything on the OP and get a fresh KerbalStuff entry put up with all my new developments for KF. That's probably another week away, roughly speaking. Today I was going to try and do some work on it, until I discovered that my financial aid had been dropped on me back in July and no one thought they should maybe tell me about it.

I will point out that once I get a better understanding of the modules that lo-fi made to convert non-KF wheels to use KF, I would love to see what can be done about your awesome wheels that I just couldn't install because lo-fi ruined stock wheel modules for me when he created his new wheels that are oh so awesome with their suspension and stuff.

Since these will be new downloads, do you think you could split repulsors off into a separate mod, perhaps with a common utility dependence? I have no idea how long that would take with the existing codebase though, so you might want to release them all together on CKAN for the bug reports to start pouring in, before you undertake that body of work. (I mean if.)

- - - Updated - - -

Hey there, if you are open to suggestions I wanted to suggest an idea for the anti-grav parts. My idea for the anti-grav parts to apply force that scales based on the inverse square of the altitude from the terrain under the part. The main effect my idea aims for would be to create a dampening cushion effect as the anti-grav vehicle falls to the ground (be it dropped from the sky, or it drives off a cliff).

Doesn't it already behave in that way? It does for me.

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qm3ster    11

KerbalStuff page has the latest version, yet still links to the old (locked) thread. Should fix that, IMHO.

I cleaned up the CKAN submission a bit, too.

Edited by qm3ster

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lo-fi    794

Wishing you guys well with the continuation. I'm busy building driver circuits for ancient tachometers from classic cars - it's all..... analog-y and I'm loving it. Happy modding :D

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qm3ster    11

Gaalidas, please go to KerbalStuff, and rename the versions accordingly:

Version 1.9g for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4 <- although it would probably be fine to call it Version 1.0 or even 0.9g, because basically no one actually has this installed through CKAN.

Version 0.9f for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Version 0.9b for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4 <- this is murdering installations everywhere, because of misplaced dot.

Version 0.9a for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.4

Version 0.8g for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2

Version 0.8f for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Version 0.8e for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Version 0.8d for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Version 0.8b for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Version 0.8a for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Version 0.7c for Kerbal Space Program 0.25

Version 0.6e for Kerbal Space Program 0.25

Version 0.6d for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.6c for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.6b for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.6a for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.6 for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.5 for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.4 for Kerbal Space Program 0.24.2

Version 0.3 for Kerbal Space Program 0.23.5

Version 0.2 for Kerbal Space Program 0.23.5

Version 0.1 for Kerbal Space Program 0.23.5

Otherwise, CKAN does not parse correctly. You should also seek to rename the mod there, to not have ALPHA in name, and update the forum link to this post, not the locked post.

Finally, in future releases you should consider including .version file.

Highest priority is fixing CKAN tho, so plz renaem nao :o

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Gaalidas    264

That's all a great idea, except for one problem. I am only a co-author and thus do not have control over the title of the mod. When school issues give me a break I intend to republish this mod to KerbalStuff to properly update things. I also wasn't even aware I'd advanced us that far in one version of the mod. That's weird. I'll look into fixing that entry. Be aware, however, that KerbalFoundries has never actually officially come with support for CKAN and it's presence in that program is simply due to the partnership it has with KerbalStuff. I really don't have the time to figure out what CKAN is doing and how to fix it for this mod, especially considering CKAN is not my project and thus not my problem. So, when it comes down to it, my highest priority is not to fix CKAN. CKAN can be fixed by the CKAN people. I can only change an errant version around which would affect more than just CKAN.

In my experience, relying on CKAN to install everything correctly is a good way to get your GameData screwed up horribly. I remember when CKAN was just an idea on the drawing board, and installing mods hasn't grown any more difficult that the easy drag and drop that it was back then, so I honestly don't think that the modern users of mods are unable to install anything on their own. CKAN is simply a luxury for those who won't learn how to do it the old fashioned way.

My stance on this subject may not mesh well with some of you, but that's how it is. I don't like CKAN, use CKAN, or care what CKAN does with this mod. My concern is the mod itself and how it is affecting the program it was made for. CKAN simply isn't that program, KSP is. I'm not necessarily bashing CKAN, nor saying that CKAN is a fault program, I am simply saying that my experience has been poor and I do not have the time to keep track of any problems with it managing this mod. if you install KF the way it was meant to be installed, then you won't have any trouble with it being installed correctly.

EDIT: By the way, I just looked at KerbalStuff and I haven't done anything wrong with the latest version number. Our last few versions have been labelled 1.9, 1.9a, 1.0b, 1.9c, etc. all the way to my latest of 1.9g. There was no jump from 0.9f to 1.9g because the previous number was actually 1.9f and not 0.9f. I have noticed that misplaced decimal though, and that was back before I had access to this mod on KerbalStuff and lo-fi was in control of everything. I'll try to fix it.

EDIT2: I could not edit the version number for that errant item, so I'm deleting it from the change logs on KerbalStuff in the hopes that that will fix things.

Edited by Gaalidas

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qm3ster    11

In my experience, relying on CKAN to install everything correctly is a good way to get your GameData screwed up horribly. I remember when CKAN was just an idea on the drawing board, and installing mods hasn't grown any more difficult that the easy drag and drop that it was back then, so I honestly don't think that the modern users of mods are unable to install anything on their own. CKAN is simply a luxury for those who won't learn how to do it the old fashioned way.

My stance on this subject may not mesh well with some of you, but that's how it is. I don't like CKAN, use CKAN, or care what CKAN does with this mod. My concern is the mod itself and how it is affecting the program it was made for. CKAN simply isn't that program, KSP is. I'm not necessarily bashing CKAN, nor saying that CKAN is a fault program, I am simply saying that my experience has been poor and I do not have the time to keep track of any problems with it managing this mod. if you install KF the way it was meant to be installed, then you won't have any trouble with it being installed correctly.

EDIT2: I could not edit the version number for that errant item, so I'm deleting it from the change logs on KerbalStuff in the hopes that that will fix things.

Thank you!

IMO, CKAN is great for mods with frequent updates, and dependencies/conflicts.

There used to be a Beta_19.b(typo) on KS, which set the major version to 19, so ckan was ignoring the latter versions like 1.9defg.

Since then, you deleted that release version off KS altogether, after which I asked for the epoch (invisible thing before major version) to be bumped in CKAN, so everyone who had the 19.b installed would still receive the auto-update to now objectively latest 1.9g (and whatever else you next plan to release in the same schema).

Edited by qm3ster

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Gaalidas    264

The header links are correct for that version of the mod. I have not released the continued version yet, so any other links would be incorrect. I will post them under a new KS release when I feel the time is right.

I also have no clue what an epoch is in this context, nor do I have any clue how it has anything to do with this. As I have stated in my last update to the OP, I have no interest in fixing something so that people can feel good about CKAN again. The only installation method I will support, and diagnose any problems with, is the standard installation that has been done for the last year or more (I forget how long KSP has been amongst the public) which is to drag the folder over (copy/paste, use of a custom batch file, whatever floats your boat). CKAN has been known to mess up mod installations in several occasions and I simply don't have the time, energy, or will to try and figure out what it's doing.

In this I am no different than the original author of Kerbal Foundries, lo-fi, who also didn't feel it was worth the time and effort to try and fix whatever was happening with his mod and CKAN, a program he didn't even use. I really don't think I'm out of line here. With the number of people who publish only to github, or those who use dropbox exclusively, I'd say you're lucky we're on KerbalStuff at all.

I'm beginning to see why lo-fi got so burnt out on KSP modding. It's a full time job trying to keep the masses from trying to dictate everything you do. Eesh.

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ObsessedWithKSP    2262

FWIW, I couldn't care about CKAN rubbish. Screw it :)

That said, I am interested to see the future of this with regards to 1.1 and its better wheels. What do you have planned for that? Just see what they're like and change accordingly? Adapt/integrate? it'd be nice to keep the DustFX around, no matter what happens.

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lo-fi    794

I have to admit, my attitude towards CKAN was always "If you can't be bothered to read some release notes, download a few files and unzip them to the correct place, you don't deserve to be modding a game.", which is why I never paid it the slightest bit of attention and resisted supporting it at all. I was rather annoyed KS defaulted to adding the mod to CKAN at all, tbh.

Ignore them, do your thing and enjoy it. You don't get paid for it, you won't get paid any more for bending to every whim and it's a hobby. If it isn't fun, don't do it! 1.1 will be hard work - you've got your work cut out for you as it is, should you choose to tackle it.

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Gaalidas    264
FWIW, I couldn't care about CKAN rubbish. Screw it :)

That said, I am interested to see the future of this with regards to 1.1 and its better wheels. What do you have planned for that? Just see what they're like and change accordingly? Adapt/integrate? it'd be nice to keep the DustFX around, no matter what happens.

DustFX, and the mod it came from (CollisionFX) will definitely be maintained to the best of my (and the original mod's author pizza... whatever his name is... I'm bad with names sometimes) ability. That ability really stinks right now, but I'm not gonna quit just yet. As for the wheels, I have no clue. I can't make sense of most of what lo-fi wrote into this code, so I'm less likely to even be able to adapt very well. I'm waiting to see how the stock wheels will interact with the world, and how they overcome the Unity 5 issues. My hope is that they overcome the issues in a way that allows the same information to be sent out from the stock code. If that is the case, we may not have to adjust much of anything. If, however, they have to rewrite everything and the output is in a completely different format, then KF will be pretty much screwed. Even if that turns out to be the case, I'll be seeing what I can do to make the wheel models work in stock (worst case scenario here). The repulsors would likely be history though, at least in their current format. In theory the repulsor could just be a wheel without a wheel model, but we'd loose out on the sideways friction-less action that we have.

I'm going to simply wait and see what happens, and hope for the best. I'm gonna hope really hard.

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riocrokite    542

hey guys,

I just wanted to share my first working wheel \o/ (thx to lo-fi tutorial :))

pquTXJb.png

Now the challenge will be to make it deployable:)

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