My rockets will not stop spinning.

[ltajax 9]

Any time i launch a rocket i get to the point indicated by the red arrow in the atmosphere my rocket starts to flip, no matter what i do to adjust the center of mass etc seems to make a difference. any help you could offer would be great as its making the game unplayable for me now.

Ive burned over 300 hours on this game and this is the first time i have had this issue, I think it may have something to do with the squad patch but im not sure.

I have tried a clean install etc and its the same problem non stop

Edited October 20, 2015 by Claw

[Sgt.Shutesie 373]

I'm no expert, but you might perhaps add fins to the second stage as well, so you get the drag even after the first stage separates.

[klesh 2,391]

The aerodynamics changed with patch 1.0, then again with 1.2 and probably again, I lost count. Things are different than they used to be with the old aerodynamics.

What height & speed does your rocket flip at? My guess is after you drop the 1st stage. At that point your 2nd stage engine is probably the heaviest thing on the vessel.

Also, the stayputnik no longer has SAS, so thats not helping to hold your orientation.

Try adding a 2nd set of fins to the bottom of the 2nd stage.

Also, if you're going too fast (~+300m/s) when you drop that first stage, then adjust the thrust of the solid booster so when you drop it you aren't going so fast.

[ltajax 9]

its not tied to specific stage changed and drop offs. it seems to be tied to a certain level of atmos that it occurs at. ive put an arrow in the picture to show where it is occurring with all my launches with various different rockets.

also im using Mechjeb embedded for my base SAS

Edited October 20, 2015 by ltajax

[GoSlash27 4,263]

Itajax,

I can't tell by your pic what point in the atmosphere you're talking about.

What's the altitude and airspeed? What's the acceleration in gs? Where are you pointed relative to prograde?

Best,

-Slashy

*edit* Oh wait... you mean about 7,500 m altitude?

Yeah... try getting a pic just before the rocket flips. That'll help pin it down.

Edited October 20, 2015 by GoSlash27

[ltajax 9]

the bar that indicates how thick the atmos is. literally when i get to that line denoting the end of the light blue part of the bar the rocket starts spinning.

Airspeed does not seem to matter as i have tried launching slower and i am still having the issue.

I'm just trying to have the rocket go straight up on a i believe the term is pro-grade direction.

Alas all my rockets just spin when i get to or near that part of the bar without fail each time.

[klesh 2,391]

I'm just trying to have the rocket go straight up on a i believe the term is pro-grade direction.

Thats another thing that has changed. At about 100m/s, tilt you rocket to the East (pressing D), and allow it to fall via gravity as its being pushed upwards by the engine. By 10k altitude, you should be almost 45 degrees.

This wont stop your flipping though. MOAR FINZ!

[ltajax 9]

Thats another thing that has changed. At about 100m/s, tilt you rocket to the East (pressing D), and allow it to fall via gravity as its being pushed upwards by the engine. By 10k altitude, you should be almost 45 degrees.

This wont stop your flipping though. MOAR FINZ!

what changed exactly?

I usually leave any turns until i am much much higher up

[Reactordrone 601]

The stayputnik has no reaction wheels or SAS so you won't get any control from there even if you have mechjeb or sandbox SAS. As others have said above you're going to need stabiliser fins on the second stage and on that rocket, with all the drag from the goo canisters, you'll need quite large fins for stability.

In general rockets that have low natural stability tend to flip in the transonic region if they wander too far from the prograde heading so go easy on the steering.

[klesh 2,391]

what changed exactly?

The way the atmosphere is simulated and all the effects that has on your craft (drag, lift etc). This results in requiring flying a completely different approach to get orbital.

Check Scott Manley's tutorial on the new aerodynamics and how to get to orbit:

In fact, within the fist 1min 20 sec, he shows his craft flipping at just about the same point in the atmosphere bar that you indicate. Watch the vid!

Edited October 20, 2015 by klesh

[Waxing_Kibbous 615]

I've tried a similar design a few times and it never works out well, I'm guessing it's way to top heavy for the thrust you are getting from the LF engine.

[ltajax 9]

okay so i went and made some changes based on suggestions that where made but it has made zero difference

still having exactly the same issue.

[GoSlash27 4,263]

the bar that indicates how thick the atmos is. literally when i get to that line denoting the end of the light blue part of the bar the rocket starts spinning.

Airspeed does not seem to matter as i have tried launching slower and i am still having the issue.

I'm just trying to have the rocket go straight up on a i believe the term is pro-grade direction.

Alas all my rockets just spin when i get to or near that part of the bar without fail each time.

Okay... but what is your airspeed when it happens? What's your acceleration in gs?

[ltajax 9]

I've tried a similar design a few times and it never works out well, I'm guessing it's way to top heavy for the thrust you are getting from the LF engine.

possibly its just i have no other engines unlocked at this time for this craft as it is a new career. I cant progress any further unless i get higher etc with the parts i have. I even tried something akin to a mercury rocket but i get the same issues. I keep an eye on the center of mass for each stage etc. This new atmo model seems more trouble than its worth.

Really sucks the fun out of the game for me

- - - Updated - - -

Okay... but what is your airspeed when it happens? What's your acceleration in gs?

its roughly 350 to 400 depending on how much thrust i use.

Last launch i did was at 1/4 trust using a lv-t30

I was pulling just under 2 G's

Edited October 20, 2015 by ltajax

[klesh 2,391]

Firing up KSP to take a look, in the meatime watch the video I posted, it explains whats going on.

[GoSlash27 4,263]

its roughly 350 to 400 depending on how much thrust i use.

http://i.imgur.com/R8U20LY.jpg

Last launch i did was at 1/4 trust using a lv-t30

I was pulling just under 2 G's

Okay. Now we're cookin' with gas

Do you have access to any kind of reaction wheel, or is that not unlocked yet?

[klesh 2,391]

Stop using the maths, slashy!

[ltajax 9]

Okay. Now we're cookin' with gas

Do you have access to any kind of reaction wheel, or is that not unlocked yet?

i am using zero reaction wheels afaik, i thought my probe core has sas and a reaction wheel built in but im not 100% they are working

- - - Updated - - -

Firing up KSP to take a look, in the meatime watch the video I posted, it explains whats going on.

thanks for the help. I have had it before where the rockets flip from going to quick but even slowing down as much as i can without loosing lift does not seem to help.

ill have a study of the video

[GoSlash27 4,263]

i am using zero reaction wheels afaik, i thought my probe core has sas and a reaction wheel built in but im not 100% they are working

- - - Updated - - -

thanks for the help. I have had it before where the rockets flip from going to quick but even slowing down as much as i can without loosing lift does not seem to help.

ill have a study of the video

Okay, it looks like you're using a HECS, which does have a weak reaction wheel and SAS.

Do you have the Delta Deluxe winglet?

[ltajax 9]

Okay, it looks like you're using a HECS, which does have a weak reaction wheel and SAS.

Do you have the Delta Deluxe winglet?

no i just have access to the basic wing atm

[The Optimist 596]

-Stayputnik no longer has SAS

-Ur rocket has no SAS

-Ur rocket has no fins

[GoSlash27 4,263]

no i just have access to the basic wing atm

Okay.

Try this:

Enable the offset tool in the SPH and drag the wings as far back as they'll go.

Let me know what happens.

Best,

-Slashy

[ltajax 9]

okay, i will give it a go.

I managed to fudge a recoverable science launch to get some more points to unlock the AV_T1 winglet

[klesh 2,391]

Okay, so you're not getting like ANY control of the ship here. The basic fins will only stabilize, the LTV-30 has no gimbal, and the SAS on the HECS probe doesn't have enough torque to really steer well.

If you're looking to break altitude records, just fly straight up. If you're looking to orbit, try tilting the rocket in the VAB.

1st attempt with a tilt had me blazing past that atmospheric mark with the red aero indicators inside the rocket following the thrust, no problem.

The tilt you see here is too much, maybe use half of this:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited October 20, 2015 by klesh

[GoSlash27 4,263]

okay, i will give it a go.

I managed to fudge a recoverable science launch to get some more points to unlock the AV_T1 winglet

If you have the AV-T1, use it. It should provide plenty of control authority.

If that does it, I'm gonna call this one "resolved".

Best,

-Slashy

[ltajax 9]

Okay, so you're not getting like ANY control of the ship here. The basic fins will only stabilize, the LTV-30 has no gimbal, and the SAS on the HECS probe doesn't have enough torque to really steer well.

If you're looking to break altitude records, just fly straight up. If you're looking to orbit, try tilting the rocket in the VAB.

1st attempt with a tilt had me blazing past that atmospheric mark with the red aero indicators inside the rocket following the thrust, no problem.

The tilt you see here is too much, maybe use half of this:

http://imgur.com/a/dUAC9

awesome ill have to give that a try

- - - Updated - - -

If you have the AV-T1, use it. It should provide plenty of control authority.

Best,

-Slashy

i tried what you suggested but did it with the new wing and.

awesome, thank you