Angeltxilon

More realistic planet structure/atmosphere

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Who has not happened next?
You are in Eve and wonder why the ship does not melt.
You're down Jool's atmosphere and suddenly the ship explodes (sometimes can reach the solid surface of Jool untapped).
You are very close to the sun and the ship is not damaged.

These things are unrealistic, so I propose a complex idea:
More types of material properties and realistic planetary layers.

 

More types of material properties:

The types of materials are clasified traditionaly into:
- Gases.
- Liquids.
- Solids.

To each material I propose these properties and changes:

Gas/atmosphere:
Gas have these values:
1. Resistance to advance (viscosity)
2. Terminal velocity (friction)
3. Atmospheric height (pressure)
4. Physical rail

I suggest put these new properties:
5. Ambience temperature constant: determinate the ambience temperature by height (max heigh=0 temperature), if a vehicle is in the atmosphere, with low height and big ambience temperature constant, the vehicle will overheat.
6. Density: determinate the floatibility of the vehicle by height, only useful in case of add airships.
7. Wind: this is not constant, would be variable by height, time and climatic flow map, wind affects little in the trajectory and orientation of vehicle. Wind percentage can be variable by difficulty and can be customized in the creation of new game.

Liquid/sea:
In KSP liquids not have nothing value in the game, every liquid is equal, this is not realistic.
I suggest these properties:
1. Viscosity: determinate the facility of move of the vehicle in the liquid, more viscosity more difficulty to move.
2. Resistance to impact: determinate the "g" forces and resistance to sink that produces to the vehicle by velocity.
3. Minimal temperature value: minimal temperature of liquid, if is very high, can produce overheat.
4. Ambience temperature constant: determinate the ambience temperature by deep of vehicle, added to minimal temperature value.
5. Density: absolute value, determinate the floatibility of the vehicle, only useful in case of add submarine vehicles.
6. Liquid flow: like wind of gas, only useful in case of add submarine vehicles.
7. Lineal pressure: determinate the pressure by deep.

Solid:
I don't know if this thing requires properties, may be this, but I am not sure:
1. Melting point: a property useful only in case of add underground oceans (in ice moons) and vehicles/parts type subterrene or nuclear tunnelator.
2. Plasticity/hardness: a property useful only in case of add terrain modification, very useful to underground and drill rockets. This should be variable by each biome of the planet/moon.
3. Pressure: a property useful only in case of add vehicles/parts type subterrene or nuclear tunnelator, more deep in the ground means more pressure.
4. Particle effect: this is not a real propertie, but can be useful to the lading animation. In planets with atmosphere the animation is very little, but in asteroids and objects without atmosphere this effect would be big, simulating dust. This should be variable by each biome of the planet/moon.

Changes into planets layers that I suggest:
Add very deep liquid seas (liquid hydrogen) in Jool and similar planets, a utility for mods and indestructible facilities.
Add hot viscous sea in Eve planet, to simulate magma/lava like Venus; add also big ambience temperature constant.
Add strong winds in Duna to simulate the ambience of Mars.
Add very strongs winds in Jool.
Add invisible extremely hot atmosphere/sea over Kerbol, to simulate the photosphere and/or corona.
Add medium/low winds in Eve and Kerbin.

Oher, more prescindible:
Add may be underground ocean in Vall (useful in case of add subterrene).
Add may be liquid flow in Kerman (useful in case of add submarine).

Ideas based in:
- Climate of Mars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars
- Airships/floating cities to explore/habitate Venus and Jupiter: http://sacd.larc.nasa.gov/branches/space-mission-analysis-branch-smab/smab-projects/havoc/
- Exploration of Europe underground ocean: https://web.archive.org/web/20110811002508/http://www.planetary.org:80/programs/projects/explore_europa/update_12142005.html https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1786-ice-melting-robot-passes-arctic-test/
- Structure of Jupiter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter#Internal_structure
- Sun photosphere and corona: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Photosphere

Edited by Angeltxilon

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One huge issue with doing this is that landing/launching from a planet's surface would be very very difficult. A lot of players would hate that they have to take wind into account, or that they can't reach the surface of a planet or moon because of randomized weather

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I had not thought ...
I just thought a solution: the percentage of wind can be variable by difficulty and can be customized in the creation of new game.
In addition, to being a variable value would have moments where they would wind in the launch area.

Now I will update the topic.

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I like the idea of air density, but that is pretty much just pressure at this point. With lighter-than air craft it could be useful, and could be important for future gas giants.

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31 minutes ago, Angeltxilon said:

I just thought a solution: the percentage of wind can be variable by difficulty and can be customized in the creation of new game.
In addition, to being a variable value would have moments where they would wind in the launch area.

 

9 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

I like the idea of air density, but that is pretty much just pressure at this point. With lighter-than air craft it could be useful, and could be important for future gas giants.

With wind & air density, a balloon part could be added, or some other way to create a lighter-than-air type vehicle. On a world with a dense atmosphere, that shouldn't be too difficult. But a lighter-than-air floating fortress inside Jool's atmosphere would be awesome.

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47 minutes ago, LordKael said:

With wind & air density, a balloon part could be added, or some other way to create a lighter-than-air type vehicle. On a world with a dense atmosphere, that shouldn't be too difficult. But a lighter-than-air floating fortress inside Jool's atmosphere would be awesome.

Hum...
The density of balloons (and floatibility) is directly proportional with pressure of atmosphere, because the gases changes of volumen and density by pressure action.
This is, big pressure crush the balloon and low pressure explodes the balloon, or simply the balloon hydrogen density would be equal to the Jool hydrogen density.


In KSP this could be equal, but there is a alternative, a vacuum balloon.
A vacum balloon is a hypothetical vehicle that would make use of a big and light container without air, with vacuum, instead light gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_airship

Edited by Angeltxilon

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On 20/12/2015 at 8:44 PM, Angeltxilon said:

Hum...
The density of balloons (and floatibility) is directly proportional with pressure of atmosphere, because the gases changes of volumen and density by pressure action.
This is, big pressure crush the balloon and low pressure explodes the balloon, or simply the balloon hydrogen density would be equal to the Jool hydrogen density.


In KSP this could be equal, but there is a alternative, a vacuum balloon.
A vacum balloon is a hypothetical vehicle that would make use of a big and light container without air, with vacuum, instead light gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_airship

I don't get how this would work, you need a fairly strong, and therfore heavy, container to hold a vacuum and prevent it collapsing.  

 

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Eve's ocean is 1.5 times as dense as Kerbin's and Laythe's; not all liquids in KSP are equal in 1.0.5.

Wind would be too hard and annoying for new players, and it would be a bother to not know that there is a lot of wind in a certain place until it is too late to restart a carefully planned mission.

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23 hours ago, LaytheDragon said:

Wind would be too hard and annoying for new players, and it would be a bother to not know that there is a lot of wind in a certain place until it is too late to restart a carefully planned mission.

1) that's what probes are for

2) if the wind is strong enough to break your craft, you need a stronger craft.

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