Spaceplane design advice

[eagle92lightning]

12 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

I couldn't figure out how to upload my photos but when I do I'll post them. Tinkering around with my design last night I managed a 5 person glider with 1054 M/s of D-v not including monoprop. And she glides well very small glide slope. The rocket that launches her...well its not so pretty but it works. If only they would add 1.25m cargo bays, Found 1.25m cargo bay on modular rocket systems mod,  this glider will be perfect for launching cube sats or small comnet sats. 

well try a fairing and a drone and how do land these cause yesterday I had to eject the capsule on a space plane and it touched down nicely so I might just eject for landing from now on.

[Bdyer]

 

Here is my ssto spaceplane I made. It can make it to minimus easy and to the min and back. 

And when I say ssto... it technically reaches orbit in a single stage, it just drops some tanks as it flys to other planets.

please note that this plane uses an opt 2.5 ton jet engine and the vtol mod, everything else is stock.  I can upload then cfg file later if you want.

[Leafbaron]

51 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

well try a fairing and a drone and how do land these cause yesterday I had to eject the capsule on a space plane and it touched down nicely so I might just eject for landing from now on.

Land it like a normal space plane. Since you will be gliding in and won't have jet engines you will need to be extra accurate when deorbiting if you plan to land at KSC or near KSC. If returning from a fly by from minmus or the mun you'll want to be very careful and aero brake a few times to bring your orbital velocity down before reentry. The Mk1 parts don't handle heat very well. Once you get through the atmosphere and are subsonic, control authority should return to normal. This is when the "porpoising" technique comes in. Glide level until your about to stall and then start a mild dive to gain velocity. then level out again. Repeat until you are close enough to land. You'll want your vertical speed to be about 5/ms or less at touch down. 

if your weight limit/part limit allows as well as CoM/CoL you might add one juno jet engine with the Mk0 fuel tank and small intake. this most likely won't give you enough thrust to fly, but will improve how well you "glide"

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Leafbaron

[eagle92lightning]

5 hours ago, Leafbaron said:

Land it like a normal space plane. Since you will be gliding in and won't have jet engines you will need to be extra accurate when deorbiting if you plan to land at KSC or near KSC. If returning from a fly by from minmus or the mun you'll want to be very careful and aero brake a few times to bring your orbital velocity down before reentry. The Mk1 parts don't handle heat very well. Once you get through the atmosphere and are subsonic, control authority should return to normal. This is when the "porpoising" technique comes in. Glide level until your about to stall and then start a mild dive to gain velocity. then level out again. Repeat until you are close enough to land. You'll want your vertical speed to be about 5/ms or less at touch down. 

if your weight limit/part limit allows as well as CoM/CoL you might add one juno jet engine with the Mk0 fuel tank and small intake. this most likely won't give you enough thrust to fly, but will improve how well you "glide"

 

okay I am know one plane that can make it to a landing area but I want to try my voyager

[eagle92lightning]

7 hours ago, Bdyer said:

 

Here is my ssto spaceplane I made. It can make it to minimus easy and to the min and back. 

And when I say ssto... it technically reaches orbit in a single stage, it just drops some tanks as it flys to other planets.

please note that this plane uses an opt 2.5 ton jet engine and the vtol mod, everything else is stock.  I can upload then cfg file later if you want.

do you have a top view of it

[Leafbaron]

Eagle, There she is. Very simple. This was after re-entering from LKO

[eagle92lightning]

16 hours ago, Leafbaron said:

Eagle, There she is. Very simple. This was after re-entering from LKO

is that a thumper on the back?

and how where those wings done? I ask too many questions sorry

[Bdyer]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5DtklZeBZKVRE1BZmhyNWxUX1k

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5DtklZeBZKVSnE5Q1pscVZ6RjA

imgur isn't agreeing with me but here you go

note the dv calcultions are way off because I disable non liquid fuel tanks on takeoff.

it gets to 90-100km on jets alone and then uses the vtol engines to circularize and to maneuver in vac.  The vtol engines are 6 sparks so good twr and decent isp

On a trip to the mun you end up ejecting the last tank before landing

Edited October 26, 2016 by Bdyer

[Leafbaron]

12 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

is that a thumper on the back?

and how where those wings done? I ask too many questions sorry

The engine on the back is porkjets parts overhaul version of the terrier. Same stats just a cosmetic difference. The wings are constructed of 4 parts. Two swept wings clipped together, a small rectangular wing to fill in the gap between the aft part of the wing which is the long skinny tapered early tier wing surface. 

[eagle92lightning]

44 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

The engine on the back is porkjets parts overhaul version of the terrier. Same stats just a cosmetic difference. The wings are constructed of 4 parts. Two swept wings clipped together, a small rectangular wing to fill in the gap between the aft part of the wing which is the long skinny tapered early tier wing surface. 

thanks I will make one soon

45 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

The engine on the back is porkjets parts overhaul version of the terrier. Same stats just a cosmetic difference. The wings are constructed of 4 parts. Two swept wings clipped together, a small rectangular wing to fill in the gap between the aft part of the wing which is the long skinny tapered early tier wing surface. 

and by the way it is beautiful

[Leafbaron]

6 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

thanks I will make one soon

and by the way it is beautiful

Thank you!  here's another rendition i made using parts from modular rocket system mod which gives 1.25m cargo bays. The wing design is more refined. You can see the rest of my post with this Glider here near the bottom. 

[Kerbal101]

On 10/21/2016 at 8:21 PM, eagle92lightning said:

first off. Why does the stinking soviet shuttle look more futuristic than NASA's? NASA is at the top of the space agency tower NASA rules!

For the same reason sputnik went 1st orbital satellite, Gagarin was 1st man in orbit, Mir was the 1st space station and ISS core was done by soviets.   They tried hard to distance themselves in orbit - way from people with napoleon complex.

[Bdyer]

2 hours ago, Leafbaron said:

Thank you!  here's another rendition i made using parts from modular rocket system mod which gives 1.25m cargo bays. The wing design is more refined. You can see the rest of my post with this Glider here near the bottom. 

Why put a cargo area on a return glider? I saw the lift vehicle in the other thread and it seems extra work to build a return glider when a pod and a heatshield is much better to return people.  Also could just put your payload in a fairing with automated control to get a larger payload in orbit.

[Leafbaron]

Just now, Bdyer said:

Why put a cargo area on a return glider? I saw the lift vehicle in the other thread and it seems extra work to build a return glider when a pod and a heatshield is much better to return people.  Also could just put your payload in a fairing with automated control to get a larger payload in orbit.

Im getting bored with regular command modules/unmanned rockets and want to start using spaceplanes for things inside Kerbin's SOI...for now, the rest of the system soon. In my career mode I don't have the necessary technology to make an SSTO yet, so this is why I'm practicing with payload launched style planes (MSTO). Plus, returning an entire glider gives me more money back on return versus just a command module. 

 

PS Jeb looks thoroughly amused in that photo

[GoSlash27]

My $0.02:

- Space planes are time consuming to develop. Accordingly, they should only be used for flights that you do regularly. Shuttling crew to/ from orbit, delivering fuel, that sort of thing.

- Space planes make lousy rockets. I don't recommend using them for jobs beyond LKO.

- Space planes restrict the size and shape of their cargo unless built with a shroud instead of a cargo bay. I don't use space planes for cargo haulers.

- Space planes are in their element when low operating cost to orbit is the most important factor. They should rely more on low drag than high thrust for best results.

- Low drag means keeping attitude changes to a minimum. Wings should use static incidence to keep the nose prograde at Mach 1. You should also use minimal control surfaces to keep maneuverability down.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[Leafbaron]

19 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

My $0.02:

- Space planes are time consuming to develop. Accordingly, they should only be used for flights that you do regularly. Shuttling crew to/ from orbit, delivering fuel, that sort of thing.

- Space planes make lousy rockets. I don't recommend using them for jobs beyond LKO.

- Space planes restrict the size and shape of their cargo unless built with a shroud instead of a cargo bay. I don't use space planes for cargo haulers.

- Space planes are in their element when low operating cost to orbit is the most important factor. They should rely more on low drag than high thrust for best results.

- Low drag means keeping attitude changes to a minimum. Wings should use static incidence to keep the nose prograde at Mach 1. You should also use minimal control surfaces to keep maneuverability down.

Best,
-Slashy

 

I agree, they are challenging because of what you said, design, payload etc... but my oh my are they oh so alluring. 

[eagle92lightning]

2 hours ago, Kerbal101 said:

For the same reason sputnik went 1st orbital satellite, Gagarin was 1st man in orbit, Mir was the 1st space station and ISS core was done by soviets.   They tried hard to distance themselves in orbit - way from people with napoleon complex.

napolean complex NASA was the first to the moon staid true to allies during WWII unlike the soviets. And EM-2 will be a NASA mission and new horizons ORIRIS-Rex, Juno, Hubble, Kepler, etc. all examples that say NASA is the pinnacle of space exploration!

[Kerbal101]

29 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

napolean complex NASA was the first to the moon staid true to allies during WWII unlike the soviets. And EM-2 will be a NASA mission and new horizons ORIRIS-Rex, Juno, Hubble, Kepler, etc. all examples that say NASA is the pinnacle of space exploration!

"was the first to the moon" lets just say immediate and afterward documentation was mediocre to say the least.

" EM-2 will be" may be, can be, should be

"pinnacle of space exploration" using soviet engines

Stinking less now?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Kerbal101

[Leafbaron]

In Soviet Russia, rocket rides you!

[eagle92lightning]

57 minutes ago, Kerbal101 said:

"was the first to the moon" lets just say immediate and afterward documentation was mediocre to say the least.

" EM-2 will be" may be, can be, should be

"pinnacle of space exploration" using soviet engines

Stinking less now?

man shut up. I am going to work at NASA so please I respect cosmonauts but right now I have no respect for you. And do you even know what EM-2's objective even is?

[Bdyer]

2 hours ago, Leafbaron said:

Im getting bored with regular command modules/unmanned rockets and want to start using spaceplanes for things inside Kerbin's SOI...for now, the rest of the system soon. In my career mode I don't have the necessary technology to make an SSTO yet, so this is why I'm practicing with payload launched style planes (MSTO). Plus, returning an entire glider gives me more money back on return versus just a command module. 

 

PS Jeb looks thoroughly amused in that photo

Ahh ok I can understand that.  I got bored of rockets myself when I could accomplish any mission with MORE BOOSTERS and MORE NUKE ENGINES.

 

Honestly I love vtol spaceplanes, both for how they look and the challenges they present.  I will admit that I still have a go big or go home philosophy as my ssto mothership interplanetary ship is up to 2,000 tons. 24 vector engines at 1000kn each makes up its vtol rockets.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5DtklZeBZKVVlZWS1hYRjc2czg

[eagle92lightning]

16 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

In Soviet Russia, rocket rides you!

hey who do you think is furthest ahead in space exploration?

[Leafbaron]

2 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

hey who do you think is furthest ahead in space exploration?

That was my bad attempt at a Yakov Smirnoff joke. 

I think that space exploration is not just a national attribute to be given to any one country in a proverbially race. Many nations have contributed to further the conquest of knowledge related to all things Space. One could argue that some nations have contributed more, either monetarily, from and engineering standpoint, or from a science related standpoint. But the truth of the matter is that each accomplishment raises the entirety of mankind up one step. No matter how small or big, each is important because it leads to the next breakthrough and so on. One might argue that the most important part of a watch is the hands because they are what "tell" time. However every piece of a watch is important because with out one tiny gear or one missing tooth or one spring, the whole thing is useless. No matter what country you hail from, we are all Human, and in space that's all that matters. When we find intelligent life in space it won't be about countries and races on this small rock we all share, it'll be about all of us, Earth and the Human race. 

So who's ahead right now doesn't matter because in the end their achievements allow others to step even further into the great unknown. 

[Kerbal101]

43 minutes ago, eagle92lightning said:

man shut up. I am going to work at NASA so please I respect cosmonauts but right now I have no respect for you. And do you even know what EM-2's objective even is?

with people like you (regardless on which side), we had ww2 and will going to have ww3. And you are telling me to "shut up"? Forum Rules do not apply to NASA applicants?

32 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

I think that space exploration is not just a national attribute to be given to any one country in a proverbially race. Many nations have contributed to further the conquest of knowledge related to all things Space. One could argue that some nations have contributed more, either monetarily, from and engineering standpoint, or from a science related standpoint. But the truth of the matter is that each accomplishment raises the entirety of mankind up one step. No matter how small or big, each is important because it leads to the next breakthrough and so on. One might argue that the most important part of a watch is the hands because they are what "tell" time. However every piece of a watch is important because with out one tiny gear or one missing tooth or one spring, the whole thing is useless. No matter what country you hail from, we are all Human, and in space that's all that matters. When we find intelligent life in space it won't be about countries and races on this small rock we all share, it'll be about all of us, Earth and the Human race. 

So who's ahead right now doesn't matter because in the end their achievements allow others to step even further into the great unknown. 

basically you rephrased Gagarin. Well, until the event with Komarov, which very possibly showcased the much darker side of "space race", which many claim was the reason for Gagarin's suicide.

[Leafbaron]

I may have rephrased Gagarin but that is solely from the Book of Leafy. Gentlemen, we stand on the shoulders of giants.