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Kerbal Space Program 1.2.2 is live!


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On 12/7/2016 at 0:39 AM, fireblade274 said:

I have not played since 1.1 (waiting for official KER and MJ2 updates)

Are these terrain seams impassable by rovers? Does it prevent long range rover travel? When did this bug come about

Why Wait For Official? The versions im using now work fine

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9 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

Great, now I have to update AGAIN! 1.2.1 was only a month ago!

 

8 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

Just saying, maybe a lot of stuff can wait for 1.3?

How dare they try and fix the game!

I'm not convinced there will be a 1.3 to wait for.

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1 hour ago, Azimech said:

I don't have any problems with my cars.

How heavy are your cars? tried a ~300Kg rover on Mun? or anything on Eve?
Yes, heavy vehicles on soft springs can ride over the seams, but lightweight rovers take a tumble. Considering this is a space exploration game, and spacecraft are light...

Honestly, I have no idea how something this obvious got through QA, or why it is being ignored now. More than one staff member has commented on this thread but not a peep on this glaring bug. :huh:
Is this in the "too hard" basket? Can we expecct it to be fixed? Soon? Later? Never? What?

Edited by steve_v
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17 minutes ago, steve_v said:

How heavy are your cars? tried a ~300Kg rover on Mun? or anything on Eve?
Yes, heavy vehicles on soft springs can ride over the seams, but lightweight rovers take a tumble. Considering this is a space exploration game, and spacecraft are light...

Honestly, I have no idea how something this obvious got through QA, or why it is being ignored now. More than one staff member has commented on this thread but not a peep on this glaring bug. :huh:
Is this in the "too hard" basket? Can we expecct it to be fixed? Soon? Later? Never? What?

It depends. My spacecraft are heavy too. I don't like tiny things and especially the smallest rover wheels. Yes, I am not normal.

Anyway, 300 kg rover on the Mün right? I'm having a fit with decouplers right now so I'll try such a thing.

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37 minutes ago, steve_v said:

How heavy are your cars? tried a ~300Kg rover on Mun? or anything on Eve?
Yes, heavy vehicles on soft springs can ride over the seams, but lightweight rovers take a tumble. Considering this is a space exploration game, and spacecraft are light...

 

 

Works absolutely fine. Been zig-zagging over it, driving full speed, slow etc.

gpoO8L5.png

Springs: 0.15
Dampers: 0.25
Friction: 0.1

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8 minutes ago, kball said:

The sizes of seams that I've seen in game and posted here has varied considerably. These last few you guys have shown look pretty small in comparison to some. Maybe that's why you haven't had trouble.

Okay, I'd like to see them. Maybe different terrain detail setting?

 

Nevermind, found one at KSC. Strangely enough, a scene reload changes it.

Edited by Azimech
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38 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I don't like tiny things and especially the smallest rover wheels.

Almost all of my seam-induced rollovers have been with those tiny wheels, both on Mun and Duna. Some seams are bigger than others, and the effect depends on the angle you encounter them at.
You can't save while moving, and you can't fix a wheel or right an unmanned rover. Flipping over on a seam after an hour of boring driving is properly infuriating.
Aside from that, they look terrible. Buggy beta-test unfinished game terrible.

5 minutes ago, kball said:

Here's one on the bug tracker

Yeah, then there are the rare seams that are big enough to drive through. I haven't seen anything that big myself, but I have encountered one that is tall enough to be impassable with the small rover wheels.
Unfortunately I rage-quit at that point rather than taking screenshots. :rolleyes:

Edited by steve_v
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6 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Almost all of my seam-induced rollovers have been with those tiny wheels, both on Mun and Duna. Some seams are bigger than others, and the effect depends on the angle you encounter them at.
You can't save while moving, and you can't fix a wheel or right an unmanned rover. Flipping over on a seam after an hour of boring driving is properly infuriating.
Aside from that, they look terrible. Buggy beta-test unfinished game terrible.

I feel your pain, but you probably shouldn't be cruising across the surface for an hour on tiny rover wheels.

Edit: Just occurred to me: In a way I love that unintended realism aspect of KSP. It introduces risk into them game. You can send your rover off made of cheap equipment on autopilot for an hour, but you're accepting a risk in doing that. Kind of simulates a real space program risk evaluation.

Edited by kball
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1 minute ago, kball said:

I feel your pain, but you probably shouldn't be cruising across the surface for an hour on tiny rover wheels.

Er, why not? Wheels are for driving, no? It's not like the small ones come with a time limit. Survey contracts on the cheap.

Edited by steve_v
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3 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Almost all of my seam-induced rollovers have been with those tiny wheels, both on Mun and Duna. Some seams are bigger than others, and the effect depends on the angle you encounter them at.
You can't save while moving, and you can't fix a wheel or right an unmanned rover. Flipping over on a seam after an hour of boring driving is properly infuriating.
Aside from that, they look terrible. Buggy beta-test unfinished game terrible.

Yes, the seams aren't very nice. Nevertheless, there's a fix we users can apply ourselves.

1. Keep dampers and springs as low as possible for normal control, but make sure the springs still work i.e. won't rest at the bump stops.
2. Reduce friction control to just the value you need, not a tiny bit higher. In case you encounter a seam, it will probably skid instead of roll over.

Because my cars used to flip, crash & burn over the seams as well, until I changed these settings.

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3 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Er, why not? Wheels are for driving, no? It's not like the small ones come with a time limit. Survey contracts on the cheap.

Talking about wheels ... size does matter ;-)

Larger wheels are always the better option for rough terrain. Compare a dump truck with a skateboard ... I'd drive into a desert with the first.

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Just now, kball said:

See my edit above.

Well yeah, if it were a game feature (like terrain scatter that's actually solid, hint, hint), rather than an exceedingly ugly and annoying bug.

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3 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Larger wheels are always the better option for rough terrain.

1 minute ago, kball said:

build a more substantial rover

Sure, but again it's not rough terrain, it's buggy terrain. There's a difference.

All this is basically saying "the workaround is not using part of the game."
If the small wheels aren't usable, remove them. Or fix the damn bugs.

Edited by steve_v
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Just now, steve_v said:

Sure, but again it's not rough terrain, it's buggy terrain. There's a difference.

All this is basically saying "the workaround is not using part of the game."
If the small wheels aren't usable, remove them. Or fix the damn bugs.

I'm done here. Good luck.

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2 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Sure, but again it's not rough terrain, it's buggy terrain. There's a difference.

All this is basically saying "the workaround is not using part of the game."
If the small wheels aren't usable, remove them. Or fix the damn bugs.

No one's denying that it's an annoying bug. I think we're just reacting to your initial tone which basically seemed to suggest the whole game was garbage because of this one flaw. There's a lot more to KSP than driving around on rovers. Very few games are without their bugs and idiosyncrasies. We love it nonetheless and have found ways to deal with and even enjoy them.

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28 minutes ago, kball said:

seemed to suggest the whole game was garbage because of this one flaw.

Certainly not my intention.
I'm just somewhat tired of new bugs every update, and that some, like this one, don't appear to be getting any attention at all.
A simple "We are aware of that, it's not in this patch but it's on the list for the next" would have sufficed, but what we have here is silence. Not even an acknowledgement of this bug (Ed. nor on any of the relevant tracker issues), despite the lengthy discussion and obvious interest from the community.

I appreciate the workarounds, but that's not what I'm fishing for.

Edited by steve_v
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2 hours ago, steve_v said:

A simple "We are aware of that, it's not in this patch but it's on the list for the next" would have sufficed, but what we have here is silence. Not even an acknowledgement of this bug (Ed. nor on any of the relevant tracker issues), despite the lengthy discussion and obvious interest from the community.

I suspect we'll be waiting a while for a fix to this. I don't know the code or the systems in place, but what I've picked up over the years makes me guess it's an issue with the custom-built PQS system used for terrain generation. The expert(s) who built it are gone, and since we haven't heard anything about this issue I'd guess that those who remain (or are newly hired) have quite a bit to figure out regarding this system before they can begin to fix it.

It took modders a long time to add new planets, so I assume it's not a straightforward, simple process to work with the PQS system. I'd love to be completely mistaken. It seems like it's one of the more significant remaining bugs if you don't count the console issues...

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