[UNOFFICIAL/FANMADE] 0.17 Discussion thread

[Shadownailshot]

Well this got derailed a bit. We never figured out what the "last transmission" photo was either.

[Jon Tash]

I don't think "the last transmission" is something we already seen on KSP (or on the forums), so i guess we can not figure out what it really is?

Maybe we need to think "outside the box".

[thatoneperson8]

I don't think "the last transmission" is something we already seen on KSP (or on the forums), so i guess we can not figure out what it really is?

Maybe we need to think "outside the box".

We can always ask Nova to tell u- *This Comment Was Deleted By The Mods*

[Shadownailshot]

We can always ask Nova to tell u- *This Comment Was Deleted By The Mods*

Nice. I didn't get to see that before it got scrapped. Must have been a sweet-tongued comment. But nova, any hints as to what that photo was?

[100cottage]

Nova's probably having a hoot over all of our theories about his pictures. Just another question, is it because my rank's curious george that I can't see Nova's pictures ? Im going through every page of this thread to find all of his pictures

[707-Engineering]

I wonder if the 'set ship orbit' thing will be included in the game as a debug option; it would help a ton for putting huge space stations up in the air. We already have a debug panel with infinite fuel, infinite RCS, no crash damage, et cetera, so why not?

I going to take a guess, and say that the dev debug window will be actually present, in the form of quick Flight scenarios, either in locked parameters or open caracter windows (Which might not be part of this update due to the non-greeness of the "save your own scenarios" for now..).

[dragonfree97]

As a question, does the KSP code allow for moons to have moons, or does the planetary code only allow moon around planet around sun? It'd be interesting to have a moon with its own moon, even if the moon were miniscule, similar to the asteroid Ida's moon Dactyl, which I think is about 500m across.

[Antoine_Le_Grand]

I can't war to launch Yogui rover on all the new planets coming...and also if I finish my mod till 0.17 come out than also test my mod in 0.17 and being able to look outside by the window is AWESOME!! Great work on tha

[CrossyCriss]

As a question, does the KSP code allow for moons to have moons, or does the planetary code only allow moon around planet around sun? It'd be interesting to have a moon with its own moon, even if the moon were miniscule, similar to the asteroid Ida's moon Dactyl, which I think is about 500m across.

I'm not sure if you can in ksp, but in real life i don't think it's possible due to tides, here is an interesting post about it http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=679

[dt890]

Well the satellites and rockets that we send up to the moon orbits the moon and not the earth so why wouldn't it work with a small asteroid or small moon instead?

[Shadownailshot]

I'm not sure if you can in ksp, but in real life i don't think it's possible due to tides, here is an interesting post about it http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=679

If it wasn't possible for moons to have moons (micro-moons we'll call them), than would a large ship be able to orbit a moon? Every piece of matter exerts it's own gravity on another. It certainly must be possible in the game code, as all orbiting bodies go on rails, and you can put your ships, however large, in orbit of a moon, and it goes on rails. So just put a small satellite (I mean the scientific definition) in orbit around a moon. It probably wouldn't have a big SOI though. Would need to be very precise to get there.

[dragonfree97]

I don't think ships get their own SOI. It'll probably only be reserved for stars, planets, moons, etc. because the SOI would be negligible at the scales that the ships are at (i.e. tens of metres).

[Shadownailshot]

I don't think ships get their own SOI. It'll probably only be reserved for stars, planets, moons, etc. because the SOI would be negligible at the scales that the ships are at (i.e. tens of metres).

Ships don't get their own SOI, I was talking about moons and small satellite bodies. It would be interesting (for orbital rendezvous purposes) if the conics patch could be updated to show you if/when you would meet up with other ships. Will that be happening in .17 (or a later update)?

[willitstimothy]

I'm not sure if you can in ksp, but in real life i don't think it's possible due to tides, here is an interesting post about it http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=679

Yeah, that link doesn't actually say that:

"Yes, in theory, moons can have moons. The region of space around a satellite there a sub-satellite can exist is called the Hill sphere. Outside the Hill sphere, a sub-satellite would be lost from its orbit about the satellite." (exerpt)

"Yes, the Moon could have a sub-satellite. If we look at a system of the Earth, Moon, and a sub-satellite, the same idea as above applies. The Moon has its own Hill sphere with a radius of 60,000 km (1/6th of the distance between the Earth and Moon) where a sub-satellite could exist." [EDITED]

"...tidal effects require thousands or millions or more years, depending on the system, to cause the loss of a sub-satellite."

So in a sense you are right, however the same rules apply to any orbiting body (given enough time, Kerbin should should de-orbit). Even then, a moon orbiting a large moon within the program would not de-orbit for months or even several years of continuous running at 100000x (which I believe is rails, and hence would not de-orbit anyway).

It seems realistic to me to allow at least large moons that are sufficiently far from their parent bodies to have their own "natural" satellites in the game.

@Shadownailshot

I talked about this very subject extensively back when I first got on the forums, and basically even the best ways to allow for ships to have their own SOI would not be practical, in the opinions of most people who know more than I do about these subjects with relation to the game. Even if your largest, most massive, rockets had SOI, the attractive force would be so low that a single burst of rcs from a single thruster would de-orbit any satellite of the rocket. Even a 500 meter asteroid would be extremely difficult to orbit (though not impossible).

There was a part "gravity" plugin that was working in .14.4. I haven't tried to use it in .16 at all, but it may still work.

Edited August 9, 2012 by willitstimothy
Correcting repetition.

[Master]

You wont see a moon have a natural moon because tidal forces will cause it to deorbit over millions of years. The same applies to any space craft we put into orbit around a moon. Even the most stable orbit we can produce will deorbit given enough time. (millions of years)

This is why you wont see a natural occurring moon with a moon. It could happen... but if it did happen it long since deorbited.

[Richy teh space man]

So moons can have moons. so long as its been put there recently..

[Jaydee]

So moons can have moons. so long as its been put there recently..

Well pluto has 3 moons, and pluto is smaller then the moon.

[MrMoog]

It's not related to the size of the celestial body, but to the fact that the moon is already orbiting a "close" parent. Pluto is not orbiting anything close, so no tidal problem.

[Richy teh space man]

Well pluto has 3 moons, and pluto is smaller then the moon.

Its not the size of the 'planet' thats the problem, read up on some of the previous replies..

[100cottage]

I can just imagine doing an Mars landing with that. Having Jev looking out the window, at the "Desert Planet" 's surface, being the first kerbal to land. (Returning, is another story however)

[Apocalyptica602]

A moon within a larger moon's SOI... sounds interesting.

It's like... Moonception. *sunglasses*

[kacperrutka26]

You are going off topic again here.. Keep it as .17 discussion thread please...

[Kobe24Life]

I'm new to the game and forums at update 0.16. How often do we get game updates usually? I'm really excited for 0.17!

[kacperrutka26]

I'm new to the game and forums at update 0.16. How often do we get game updates usually? I'm really excited for 0.17!

Welcome to the forums!

The updates are about once a month, or maybe a few weeks. The 0.16 update took about 1 month from 0.15. So it might take time before we get 0.17. Also feel free to post anything you want about your thoughts on 0.17 in this thread!

[softweir]

There have been NO regular updates - they come at all sorts of different times. Squad were trying very hard to get down to a month an update, but some of the code that has gone in has been very hard to get working and debugged and took longer than they wanted.

I suspect that updates will become more frequent once all the underlying code is in and they are just adding gameplay and content - things like new solar systems, new planets, new missions and so on - and applying bug-fixes. That sort of work can be broken up into short development cycles much more easily!