michal.don

Shuttle Challenge v5 - The STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] - MAJOR CHALLENGE ANNOUNCEMENT! - 30.3.2020

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18 hours ago, Mopoii said:

This is the second time I participate in this challenge, but last time was long ago and I consider I have somewhat improved since then. So here is my second entry for STS-1a. For this mission, I decided to go for the Space Transportation System, which I don't find is the most effective or interesting, but it had to be used at some point. Here's the mission recap https://imgur.com/a/7NBGu0G

Welcome back to the challenge :)

That's a really cool replica you've build there, even the with a "heat shield" at the bottom, I like it :)
The flight looks very controlled at every moment, really unfortunate that you didn't make it to the runway :/

Before I can reward you a badge, I need a complete mod list. I can see some visual stuff and KER but there are also some parts on the shuttle which are probably not stock (I'm having some trouble to identify the OMS engines and the bottom 'cap' of the external tank).

 

18 hours ago, Soviet_Noddle said:

I've stalked this challenge and procrastinated for a while, but I've finally come up with my STS-1a Mission.

Welcome to the challenge :)

I'm not sure if we already had a MK1 shuttle in this thread, it's definitely not a common thing...I like it :)
These are some powerful boosters for such a small, non-cargo shuttle. You may want to consider to reduce the thrust at launch to prevent reentry effects on your way up ;)
Beside of that, your shuttle performs very well, really unfortunate that you missed the runway though.

Congratulations to your first badge :) 

YgXYW8T.jpg?1

If you want to continue this challenge, and I really hope so, I have a little request: Please don't cut the screenshots. If you want to emphasis a detail on the picture, you can write a comment about it in the imgur album. For example: When you cut out just the orbital info display, there is absolute no way to tell, if these numbers are actually from this flight. Just post the full screenshot and write "orbital parameters" or something like this on it ;)

 

Regarding the chute:

16 hours ago, Artienia said:

unsure if deploying a parachute is allowed in mid air. the rules could have changed since than

I cannot remember a rule which prohibit the usage of chutes in "mid air". You may get a problem, when you land the orbiter by using just chutes since it is technically not a horizontal landing which is required (definition of an orbiter in the OP) but it is totally fine to fire a chute during the descent to slow down a bit more or just by accident :)

 

I'm a bit short on time and have to go, but I'll be back in a few hours to review the other entries :)

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11 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Before I can reward you a badge, I need a complete mod list. I can see some visual stuff and KER but there are also some parts on the shuttle which are probably not stock (I'm having some trouble to identify the OMS engines and the bottom 'cap' of the external tank).

Here is my mods list

scFyM5S.png

As you can see, no parts mods, just visual, audio or info mods. Restock does allow for different visual part variants, which is why you probably didn't recognise the Terrier engines that serve as OMS engines (the pods themselves are made of 3 NCS Adapters and 1 Aerodynamic Nose Cone each). As for the bottom of the external tank, it's a 5m fairing (which makes it very un-aerodynamic amongst other things).

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3 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Welcome to the challenge :)

I'm not sure if we already had a MK1 shuttle in this thread, it's definitely not a common thing...I like it :)
These are some powerful boosters for such a small, non-cargo shuttle. You may want to consider to reduce the thrust at launch to prevent reentry effects on your way up ;)
Beside of that, your shuttle performs very well, really unfortunate that you missed the runway though.

Congratulations to your first badge :) 

YgXYW8T.jpg?1

If you want to continue this challenge, and I really hope so, I have a little request: Please don't cut the screenshots. If you want to emphasis a detail on the picture, you can write a comment about it in the imgur album. For example: When you cut out just the orbital info display, there is absolute no way to tell, if these numbers are actually from this flight. Just post the full screenshot and write "orbital parameters" or something like this on it ;)

 

Regarding the chute:

I cannot remember a rule which prohibit the usage of chutes in "mid air". You may get a problem, when you land the orbiter by using just chutes since it is technically not a horizontal landing which is required (definition of an orbiter in the OP) but it is totally fine to fire a chute during the descent to slow down a bit more or just by accident :)

Thanks for the badge! I will heed all of your recommendations in further missions. I wasn't sure about the imgur albums and your tips are definitely helpful. 

Thanks for all the feedback and I will be back soon with my STS-1b Mission. :)

 

p.s. How do I attach the badge to my posts and replies? Kinda new on this forum.

Edited by Soviet_Noddle

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2 hours ago, Mopoii said:

Here is my mods list

Thanks and enjoy your new badge :)

   YgXYW8T.jpg?1

16 hours ago, EveMaster said:

I reached orbit and landed back at the KSC with my "Nano Space Shuttle", thereby achieving STS-1a on level commander . The craft weights 7.650t including all boosters and fully fueled.

Awwww, it's so cute :wub:

Really well performed mission in a very unique shuttle, I love it. You don't seem to have a lot of fuel reserves, how many tries did it take for you to get into an orbit? ;)
Also, probably the first time I've witnessed an "upside down" aerobreak to protect the landing gear while exposing a kerbal to the atmosphere...whatever it is in the helmets, they should use it to build landing gears out of it :D
Thanks for including the craft file, I'll give it a try...looks like a lot of fun :)

For the sake of completeness, please add a complete modlist if you want to participate in any further mission as well. The craft file is evidence enough for this time though ;)

Congratulations to you very well deserved badge :)

QThe6Sf.jpg?1

 

4 hours ago, Mopoii said:

Here is my STS-2a mission, for which I decided to use the Shuttle Evolution Block II

Cool stuff :cool:

When you say "abort system" does it mean you are able to separate the cockpit and land it like a small,. bulky plane? :o

You get quite a lot of horizontal thrust during launch, don't you? It's not a bad thing and you reached an orbit with ease, it's just something I've noticed^^

I'm curious since you didn't include a screenshot which shows the orbital parameters of the orbiter before the ComSats are deployed: Did you actually park the orbiter in a stationary orbit or is it an elliptical orbit and the satellites reached their final orbit on their own power?
Speaking of orbital parameters: The second ComSat is not positioned very well, its orbital period is 14min longer then a Kerbin day, at least in the screenshot. Did you adjust it's orbit afterwards or do you have at least some RCS fuel left to allow such a correction?

No badge yet but if you can provide a screenshot of the second ComSat which shows a decent amount of monoprop in it's tanks (1-2 Units should already be fine, doesn't take a lot to adjust the orbit), I'm willing to hand out a badge to you. Of course, you can also actually adjust the orbit but it would be already fine for me to know, that would be possible ;)

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First off, replies :

51 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

When you say "abort system" does it mean you are able to separate the cockpit and land it like a small,. bulky plane? :o

That's right, here's a quick look (the full abort is in the gallery at the end) : 

Spoiler

t36dfwd.png

 

53 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Did you actually park the orbiter in a stationary orbit or is it an elliptical orbit and the satellites reached their final orbit on their own power?

Yeah sorry I forgot to screenshot that. I decided to go for an elliptical orbit (what I called KTO [for Keostationary Transfer Orbit] in the gallery), as that's what most rockets seem to go for, and it was safer for the Kerbals to get back down in case of emergency. I had made sure the satellites had plenty of monoprop to reach the desired circular orbit, and allow for corrections if necessary (which in the end proved useful !). 

59 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

You get quite a lot of horizontal thrust during launch, don't you? It's not a bad thing and you reached an orbit with ease, it's just something I've noticed^^

You're right. It's particularly visible at launch, and in this one it was quite clear. I believe this is due to the boosters not being as powerful as they should be, but I don't think it's very problematic, as we can easily correct this by pitching up.

1 hour ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

The second ComSat is not positioned very well, its orbital period is 14min longer then a Kerbin day, at least in the screenshot. Did you adjust it's orbit afterwards or do you have at least some RCS fuel left to allow such a correction?

It's true I wasn't very careful on that one. The correction is shown is the gallery at the end.

 

Now on to STS-3.

Again, I used the Shuttle II, as I'm quite fond of it since the start. However, I am also looking into other systems, such as horizontal launch on a larger "carrier" shuttle (such as this one : https://space.nss.org/media/p335-mcdonnel-douglas-design.gif), or an orbiter sitting on top of a more "standard" rocket, and having much smaller wings & relying on parachutes for landing (like this design I found : http://www.buran.ru/htm/str124.htm). I'm unsure if the latter still qualifies as a shuttle according to the challenge's definition though.

Here is the full mission gallery for STS-3, the abort test, and the corrected comsat orbits : https://imgur.com/gallery/LyyxCe3

 

I'll try to be more complete when posting mission reports in the future. I've already completed STS-4 when writing this, so I can't do anything for that one, but the following missions I'll be more careful about.

The whole engineering process is great fun, hope to do a fair bit as I'm on holiday atm

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4 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Really well performed mission in a very unique shuttle, I love it. You don't seem to have a lot of fuel reserves, how many tries did it take for you to get into an orbit? ;)

I don't have a lot of fuel left, because I removed as many fuel tanks as possible whilst still reaching orbit. The aerospike is overpowered for my shuttle, so you could add a lot of fuel tanks and get to orbit with more fuel left.

For the shuttle as it is now, it took me about three tries. During the design of the craft a lot more. Most of the time I spent unsuccessfully trying to get it work with only a spark engine or not engine at all on the central booster.

4 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

For the sake of completeness, please add a complete modlist if you want to participate in any further mission as well. The craft file is evidence enough for this time though ;)

I will definitely participate in further missions. I only used KER and its dependencies during the mission. I also had the mods BetterTimeWarpContinued, Easy Vessel Switch and Kerbal Attachment System installed, but did not use them for the mission.

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3 hours ago, Soviet_Noddle said:

Hello everyone!

After a few revisions I have come up with an STS-1b.

https://imgur.com/a/2uqdJSg

Once again, any and all feedback is helpful!

Also any help with badges would be cool

 

Looking good, looking forward to seeing how it flies :)

And the badges, get the image link (right click the badge you got and select "copy address") and then go to the forum "Account settings" (in your personal menu top right of the page), then "signature", and paste the link in the big text box there. It should change the image link to an image itself.

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Quick question, how do ii check orbit inclination?

Edit: Stock kerbal 

Edit2: nvm, found it. Details in the bottom left of the screen when flying  :)

Edited by MarkoeZ

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2 hours ago, MarkoeZ said:

Looking good, looking forward to seeing how it flies :)

And the badges, get the image link (right click the badge you got and select "copy address") and then go to the forum "Account settings" (in your personal menu top right of the page), then "signature", and paste the link in the big text box there. It should change the image link to an image itself.

Thanks a lot!

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Im having troubles to fly my current mission, the graphic settings keep resetting, and the game lags a lot more than before the update.. You guys saw that kind of problems too ?

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32 minutes ago, Kerbolitto said:

Im having troubles to fly my current mission, the graphic settings keep resetting, and the game lags a lot more than before the update.. You guys saw that kind of problems too ?

All my settings also reset every time I restart the game. However, I have noticed better frames and fewer freezes since 1.8

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STS3 Commander Run!

I went for something a bit more interesting than just "goo in a can", created somewhat of a radio telescope. The plan was a lot more graceful originally, more like the James Webb telescope, but after cursing at triangle positioning for several hours, i went for a bit simpler design ;) 

 Album: https://imgur.com/gallery/7jLatZB

and teaser :)

FVahyj7.png

 

p.s. edit: I probably should have moved the shuttle wiith the 40t tank from the previous mission off the runway BEFORE landing. That was quite a surprise, but managed to navigate around it :P

Edited by MarkoeZ

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4 hours ago, Soviet_Noddle said:

Quick question: are Making History and Breaking Ground parts allowed? Or are they considered mods?

Yup, allowed. Been using the robotics parts myself, and was not an issue
 

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Wow, that's quite a lot of new content here, makes me happy every time :)

Ok, where did I stop *scroll up*

On 10/22/2019 at 5:55 PM, Mopoii said:

That's right, here's a quick look (the full abort is in the gallery at the end) : 

Oh, this is cool. I'm impressed you manged to balance out such a small vessel properly and you can actually land it on some gear, not just a parachute. Well done!

On 10/22/2019 at 5:55 PM, Mopoii said:

It's true I wasn't very careful on that one. The correction is shown is the gallery at the end.

Thanks for adjusting it, the new orbit is very close to be perfect. You deserve this badge, congratulations :)

FvojaPY.jpg?1

 

On 10/22/2019 at 5:55 PM, Mopoii said:

I'm unsure if the latter still qualifies as a shuttle according to the challenge's definition though

Would be worth a discussion.

The definition states:

Quote

is capable of a horizontal landing

which can be interpreted like "in a horizontal orientation". The first picture in your link show the orbiter in a horizontal orientation but on chutes, so basically just moving vertically but not prograde/forward. I think, it would still satisfy the definition even though it is a bit "edgy". Also, it would be really tough to land it on the runway, so it's will become more challenging to obtain a commander badge. I would love to hear the opinion of @michal.don on this topic, he will be back from his holiday soon :)

 

On 10/22/2019 at 5:55 PM, Mopoii said:

Here is the full mission gallery for STS-3, the abort test, and the corrected comsat orbits : https://imgur.com/gallery/LyyxCe3

Wow, these are the smallest KMUs I've every seen and they still look like some actual orbital construction equipment :o I love it!
Are there even any reaction wheels on it? Must be hard to do a precise docking maneuver with such a light vehicle controlled just on RCS.

Also the telescope which comes with a hinged lid, just beautiful :)

Uhm...am I blind or did you forget to include the landing of STS - 3 in this album? The second picture loos like from reentry but that's it...nothing else :o The landing is a important part of every mission, without a documentation of it, I cannot reward a badge, I'm sorry :/
I hope you just forgot to include them in the album or you got an savegame befor you landed...

 

 

On 10/22/2019 at 7:24 PM, Soviet_Noddle said:

After a few revisions I have come up with an STS-1b.

https://imgur.com/a/2uqdJSg

Once again, any and all feedback is helpful!

Is this supposed to be a single picture or a full mission report? The design looks really cool, looking forward to see it in action :)

 

23 hours ago, MarkoeZ said:

I already took a first look and the design is just amazing, beautiful usage of the robotic parts. :wub: Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do a proper review right now but don't worry, I didn't forget you ;) Also, thanks for jumping in to answer some questions here :)

Will be back tomorrow with plenty of time for the review such an entry deserves :)

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2 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Uhm...am I blind or did you forget to include the landing of STS - 3 in this album? The second picture loos like from reentry but that's it...nothing else :o The landing is a important part of every mission, without a documentation of it, I cannot reward a badge, I'm sorry :/
I hope you just forgot to include them in the album or you got an savegame befor you landed...

You're quite right, some screenshots are missing. Imgur has been kinda been bugging out on me lately so that's probably why they disappeared and why the reentry picture ended up at the 2nd spot. So here's the end of STS-3 : https://imgur.com/gallery/AenzC0Z (should be showing as a link, but at least on my side the URL works)

2 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Wow, these are the smallest KMUs I've every seen and they still look like some actual orbital construction equipment :o I love it!
Are there even any reaction wheels on it? Must be hard to do a precise docking maneuver with such a light vehicle controlled just on RCS.

Nope, no reaction wheels, but I can tell you, they can be pretty awful to use in some cases. Should've really looked into better balancing the RCS.

Concerning the "parachute shuttle", I've come up with something, but I've still got to overcome terrible instability, caused by all the wing parts used to get the shape right. But if I can fix it, and if I'm allowed to use it, it would be quite fun and very different from most designs !

Edited by Mopoii

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6 hours ago, Mopoii said:

Concerning the "parachute shuttle", I've come up with something, but I've still got to overcome terrible instability, caused by all the wing parts used to get the shape right. But if I can fix it, and if I'm allowed to use it, it would be quite fun and very different from most designs !

If I may, it is possible to recreate the shuttle that you based your craft on without canards, by placing wings under the cargo bay to provide some kind of body lift. This could help you increase l/d ratio and lift balance :). You can also form an U shape around the hull, which gives better yaw stability ! 

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18 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Is this supposed to be a single picture or a full mission report? The design looks really cool, looking forward to see it in action :)

Im not quite sure what happened, hopefully this link works

https://imgur.com/gallery/2uqdJSg

It should be a full mission report, only two things went wrong

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On 10/23/2019 at 10:42 PM, MarkoeZ said:

STS3 Commander Run!

Ok, let's see what we got here :)

I said it already but let me repeat myself: You've done an amazing job on this telescope. It is indeed "slightly" different to a "goo in a can" :D Beautiful usage of the robotic parts to fold the telescope so you can perfectly use the available space in the cargobay. Once the telescope is put together in space with some help of these nice tittle MMUs and it starts to unfolds, I had a "wow" moment...it looks a bit messy in the first moment but it becomes beautiful very quick. Much kudos an this design, I really love it!

Beside of the telescope, you've demonstrated some nice piloting skills. While it is comparatively easy to launch into an inclined orbit, it is pretty tough to perform a precise landing without going to an equatorial orbit first but it looks like you did it with ease. Well done :)
For a brief moment, I thought you lost an elevon on the runway but apparently, it's just one of the landing lights xD

Out of curiosity: Have you tried to roll the shuttle during the launch instead of putting it on the pad in the required orientation to archive an inclined orbit? It's surprisingly challenging with an asymmetrical design and I never managed to pull it off properly :D

Congratulations to your well deserved commander badge :)

9E708Vn.jpg?1

 

 

16 hours ago, Mopoii said:

So here's the end of STS-3 : https://imgur.com/gallery/AenzC0Z

Thank you :)

The landing looks solid and well performed as usual, so I'm happy to hand out a new badge to you. Congratulations :) 

TcliiFr.jpg?1

 

10 minutes ago, Soviet_Noddle said:

Im not quite sure what happened, hopefully this link works

https://imgur.com/gallery/2uqdJSg

It should be a full mission report, only two things went wrong

The link works fine this time :)

I really like your shuttle design, it looks modern and slim which is quite impressive for a mission which requires some heavy lifting :)

Solid launch and stage separation, well done so far.

Unfortunately, I have to tell you about two issues on your mission:

1) You left the fuel pod in an orbit which doesn't fulfill the tolerance requirements. You got an Ap of 88.0208km and a Pe of 87.8512km which sums up to a difference of ~170m between these points while just 100m are allowed. Even before you deployed the pod, you were above the tolerance (122m) :/ 

2) You forgot to add a screenshot to prove, the fuel pod is still fully fueled after deploying it.

I'll leave it up to you, if you want to redo the mission or fix this one. For example, it would be perfectly fine for me if you launch another shuttle to deliver a little (RCS powered) tug to the pod, dock to tug to the pod and adjust the orbit. Put the tug back into the shuttle and land it back on Kerbin.
If you've accidentally used any fuel from the pod, you should just redo the mission though.

Regarding the landing: Even if you don't feel confident to land on the runway and the mission description says "land wherever you like", it is not recommend to land in the ocean since the orbiter is meant to be reusable ;) Well, you seem to have some issues with the landing gear, so this was actually the only way to land it in this case but it would be much more elegant to fix the gear and land land on solid ground :) 

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3 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Congratulations to your well deserved commander badge :)

 

Thanks!

3 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

Out of curiosity: Have you tried to roll the shuttle during the launch instead of putting it on the pad in the required orientation to archive an inclined orbit? It's surprisingly challenging with an asymmetrical design and I never managed to pull it off properly :D

Thats actually what i did. In the third picture you can see that its positioned for a "normal" equatorial orbit. Forgot how to rotate the shuttle/parts less than 90 degrees and was too lazy to search :P And it was a bit wobbly, but i managed :)

Edit: Funny detail btw, i actually found out how to check orbit inclination AFTER the launch. So the whole launch was a guesstimate, and when it was circularized and i finally found the inclination display, it turned out it was at 30.3 degrees, with more than enough fuel to fix that last bit. Not too shabby :D

Edited by MarkoeZ

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I decided to redesign my entire orbiter design with the release of 1.8

Here is a STS-1 Commander entry with my new take on a visually accurate STS

https://imgur.com/a/iJOwnQ4

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:41 AM, Fraus said:

Here is a STS-1 Commander entry with my new take on a visually accurate STS

Oh cool, these are the new SRBs, aren't they? I haven't tried them yet but they look really nice :)

You put a lot of details on your shuttle and the payload, even the launch clamps are covered and the "heatshield" of the orbiter looks beautiful :)

The flight itself looks very stable and the gimbals on the SRB seem to help a lot to vector the thrust properly during launch. You reached an orbit with ease and I'm not sure if you overshot the KSC on purpose to fly a little loop like the real shuttle or if it happened by accident but it definitely worked out very well ;)

I have two questions before I'll reward you with a badge though:

1) Did you use any mods? Looks like it is pure stock but I want to be sure ;)
2) How did you manage to add more then 120k units of LFO to your shuttle?! That's insane :o

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My newest shuttle creation is called the Pico Space Shuttle. It weigths 3.44 tons fully fueled and with boosters and fits into a MK2 cargo bay. The only mod used is KER.

Comparison of the Nano Space Shuttle(left) and the Pico Space shuttle(right):

1W3IhWI.jpg

Mission report: https://imgur.com/gallery/7XNiAfW

Craft file: https://kerbalx.com/EveMaster/Pico-Space-Shuttle

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Hi guys,

so I am back home, tired, jet-lagged as hell, but with many great memories and interesting experiences :) 

I was watching the thread when possible, and I am glad to see many new faces, as well as a few comebacks. I'll have a closer look at the entries when I get a full night of sleep, now I'm just stopping by to say hello to you all and thank@4x4cheesecake for doing an awesome job, I really appreciate it ;)

Michal.don

 

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