Help a noob out please

[Lego_Prodigy]

I purchased KSP about 5 days ago, I already know how orbits and rockets work, as I love aviation and aspire to become an aerospace engineer. However, I have this issue where I CANNOT get a single lander or SSTO onto the moon, as my SSTOs don't have enough fuel and when I DO put enough fuel in them they can't takeoff and crash. as for landers, I have loveed up about 5 probes trying to get to anything other than kerbin. 3 failed probes and 5 failed SSTO designs (I'm quite fond of planes). However I still do have control of an ion-powered probe. Can anybody give me advice? The images of the probe didn't save to the folder. I use mac if you know how to find them. Thanks for the help in advance!

[Tokoshoran]

This seems similar to my problem and inability to reach Mun. I still haven't quite reached yet, but one of the first tips to give is that you want to head east as you're arching out of orbit. You're wasting fuel going against the planet's spin to try and go west, and not getting any help if you're going north or south.

My experience working with needing more fuel to get into orbit in the first place is that those side thrusters from Rockomax are rather helpful. Since you can use multiple on one fuel tank, you can throw on a heavier fuel tank and still lift off.

[GoSlash27]

Lego,

 You have already defined the 2 problems. #1 running out of fuel and #2 insufficient thrust to weight. Problem #1 is solved by understanding maneuvers and spacecraft in terms of "delta- vee"; the change in velocity. Problem #2 is solved by understanding exactly how much thrust is required for each phase, and providing it. The two problems seem diametrically opposed, but they are soluble.

 There is math ahead, which aerospace engineering involves. Buckle up, ask lots of questions, and prepare for some brain- fry. There are some scary- competent rocket scientists on this forum.

Task #1:

My first bit of advice: Forget about SSTOs to the Mun. They can be done, but they are almost entirely what's described in this video as "dumb mass". Wings, airframe, landing gear, intakes, empty fuel tanks,  air- breathing engines... all things that are useless for a trip to the Mun.

 Getting to the Mun (or anywhere else for that matter) is all about weight. Embrace the concept of travelling light.

Welcome aboard!

-Slashy

Edited March 28, 2018 by GoSlash27

[Kerbinchaser]

1 hour ago, Lego_Prodigy said:

(snip)

The images of the probe didn't save to the folder. I use mac if you know how to find them. Thanks for the help in advance!

Did you use Mac's command-shift-4/3 for the screenshots or KSP's screenshot system? If you used KSP's, I can help you.

[bewing]

SSTO spaceplanes are super hard compared to rockets. So not a good idea to start there.

For tossing rockets at the Mun, there are a lot of steps. Building a rocket with a lot of oomph that will still fly. Aerodynamics for your trip up to orbit. Either a direct ascent, or a gravity turn (gravity turns are harder). How much to lead the Mun by, for either a direct ascent or a transfer from LKO. Braking into LMO. Then landing gently and reasonably accurately somewhere reasonably flat.

So, the first question is: can you get a big fat rocket with a lot of fuel in it to LKO reliably?

 

[bigcalm]

All good advice above - building an SSTO (i.e. Single Stage to Orbit, i.e. Not throwing anything away) that will get to the Mun will be difficult.  Not Eve ascender difficult, but close.  I would recommend that you try and land on the Mun and come back using staging first, before attempting this.  Then if you want to attempt the SSTO to the Mun idea, it's simply a matter of designing planes that can get into orbit with a lot of unused delta-v.  If you're willing to use mods, Kerbal Engineer Redux will be able to tell you what your delta-v is in flight and during design though it won't help you fly the mission, and MechJeb2 will give you the same information but actually help execute maneuver nodes. 

From low kerbin orbit (which typically takes 3500-4500ms to reach), you will need roughly 2100ms delta v to reach the surface of the Mun, and around 1100ms extra if you want to return to Kerbin, though having slightly more than what's required is strongly recommended.

[Lego_Prodigy]

I might need a mod that changes the stage separation input to a double tap of the space bar, as I loveed up a mission to the man when i accidentally hit the space bar again.

[Lego_Prodigy]

10 hours ago, Lo Var Lachland said:

Did you use Mac's command-shift-4/3 for the screenshots or KSP's screenshot system? If you used KSP's, I can help you.

I used KSP's

 

[Lego_Prodigy]

Currently designing an SSTO that is a blend of MK2 parts in front for aerodynamic piercing, with MK3 parts in the back for more fuel. I got this idea while taking a warm bath

[bewing]

Ah, see ... you may need to do some flying to do a lot of aerodynamic part testing first. MK2 parts look pretty, but they have extremely high drag in the current version. Some of us call it "MK2 Hell". I'm afraid you're digging yourself into a terrible hole.

 

[Kerbinchaser]

7 hours ago, Lego_Prodigy said:

I used KSP's

 

Okay. Under the "KSP" root folder in the Steam library, there is a folder called "screenshots."

Here, I'll show you: 

[Lego_Prodigy]

I looked in there, there was nothing.

[Tokoshoran]

15 hours ago, bewing said:

Ah, see ... you may need to do some flying to do a lot of aerodynamic part testing first. MK2 parts look pretty, but they have extremely high drag in the current version. Some of us call it "MK2 Hell". I'm afraid you're digging yourself into a terrible hole.

 

Edit: Nevermind. I was thinking of something else.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Tokoshoran
Misunderstanding.

[bigcalm]

It's for an older version, and spamming intakes like that won't really work in the current version, but take a look at Scott Manley's Orange Tank Efficiency video - he essentially builds an almost SSTO (ok he drops a bunch of air-intake engines) that uses a single orange tank of fuel and takes it all the way to Duna and Ike and then back to Kerbin.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by bigcalm

[XtraChrisP]

SSTOs are cool and all, but I've found the most useful skill in this game is learning how to dock.  Fly to orbit, dock with a refueler, encounter Mun, deploy a lander, grab some science, return to orbit, dock, return to Kerbin, feel great about self 

[klesh]

On 3/28/2018 at 8:37 AM, Lego_Prodigy said:

I used KSP's

 

Scroll to the bottom of the KSP page in your Library, there is a "view screenshots library" button. It in turn has a "show on disk" button if you need to find the original.  You can also just post steam screenshot links in the forum.

[Lego_Prodigy]

Found them!