ringerc

[1.4.3] ImprovedHeatShields (DRE Lite): Running out of ablator matters

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Download

Get it from SpaceDock, or build it from GitHub

What?

This is a behaviour-only mod. No new parts, it just fixes KSP's stock heat shields so they fail when depleted and in extreme re-entry profiles. Don't slam into the atmosphere hard and fast, and don't expect to survive with those 0-ablator "for novelty use only" heat shields anymore.

(Credit goes to the Deadly Reentry crew for the class I adapted for depletion. Without this mod wouldn't work.)

Also makes the inflatable heat shield a bit more delicate. It remains amazing for what it should be amazing for - slow, grazing aerocaptures and aerobraking manoeuvres. But now if you try to use it for ballistic re-entry at high speed or of a heavy vehicle, you'll probably die. (This is optional, you can omit the ModuleManager config for it).

Also lowers max temp of service bays so they don't function as similarly magic heat shields. They're still very tough, just not "drop one into Eve at 4000m/s" tough.

Think of this as Deadly Reentry Lite. No Kerbal injury, no part damage, etc. Just heat shields that can fail, and saner temp tolerances on service bays.

Why?

KSP's heat shields are magic. Really. Try re-entering from Minmus on a steep trajectory ... with your heat shield tweaked to have zero ablator. You'll be fine. You can even use a service bay instead of a heat shield for interplanetary transfers, it's almost as good a heat shield.

I want heat shields where I have to care about the re-entry profile, at least a bit. Don't bring enough ablative material and your shield will be exhausted, with fatal consequences. Slam too hard into the atmosphere and the shield will overheat and fail - pyrolysis only gets you so far in terms of heat protection.

These shields aren't realistic. They're just slightly less absurdly unrealistic. KSP's ablator model is silly. Instead of lowering conductivity by providing a gas blast shield to buffer the surface from the hot gases of reentry, pyrolysis in KSP works more like some kind of super-compressed refrigerant that absorbs heat, or some kind of mega-endothermic chemical reaction. The thermal energy accumulates normally in the part until it reaches a threshold, then some ablator burns away and poof, bye bye heat. The heat shield its self is a magic insulator, whether or not it has ablative material left.

Instead what should happen is that the pyrolysis of the ablator should greatly lower the thermal conductivity of the part ... until the ablator runs out.

To simulate that I borrowed Deadly Reentry's approach (and some DLL code, CC-BY-SA) for resetting the heat shield's conductivity and lowering its max temp when it is exhausted. We presume it's weakened by being burned up. The max temp is also lowered overall, allowing the shield to fail when used in extreme re-entry profiles. They're really still magic fridges in physics terms, but the behaviour works out well enough.

None of the rest of DRE is used here. No part damage. No kerbal injury. No separate heat shield parts.

Changes Made

  • When a heat shield has 0 ablator material, its max temp is reset to 1200K (tweakable in MM) and its conductivity set to 20. A depleted heat shield will promptly explode, exposing the part underneath. (ImprovedAblator.cfgand Plugins/ImprovedAblator.dll)
  • Heat shields' max temp is lowered from 3300K (effectively indestructible) to 2800K (merely very tough). This means extreme re-entry profiles can cause the shield to fail, especially with a heavy craft. The burn profile of ablators is also tweaked so they only start to burn up at 2000K and tend to burn quite aggressively once that threshold is hit. (HeatShieldMaxTemp.cfg)
  • Service bay max temp lowered to 2600K from 3000K (ServiceBays.cfg).
  • Inflatable heat shield max temp lowered to 3000K from 3500K, allowing it to fail on steep re-entries. (InflatableHeatShieldForAero.cfg)
Edited by ringerc
Download links, fix title, fix link

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Ah well, just wanted to test some changed settings in my fiddled heathshields patch...

 

I guess I have to test this now.

Perhaps also with my fiddled patch together... :D

@ringerc the Spacedock link is broken, should be https://spacedock.info/mod/1889/ImprovedHeatShields

@ringerc it still is :cool:

Edited by Gordon Dry

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@ringerc I suggest that you change the
GameData\ImprovedAblator\ImprovedAblator.cfg

to
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]

instead of :FINAL

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@PiezPiedPy I just wanted to say it to make clear that "I the user" needs this to be changed (ofc I did it already in my install) to be able to add fiddledity patches mark GordonDry.

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After trying it with RealHeat, I had no ablator usage at all during a gentle and relatively long reentry.

See

I try it again without RealHeat.

If that works, I need to edit my patch config by adding patches especially for RealHeat to have kinda "same" effect.

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11 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

After trying it with RealHeat, I had no ablator usage at all during a gentle and relatively long reentry.

I've been playing it myself with Kerbalism, and that shows I need to make the ablator behaviour closer to stock, because the Kerbalism-tweaked parts cannot survive the temps of the tweaked ablators.

The fairly extreme parameter tweaking was done in an attempt to create a shield that would overheat and fail when depleted, but work fine until depleted. Now that I have a behavioural hook to change the conductivity and maxTemp when depleted, that tuning is much less necessary, and I'm inclined to remove it entirely. I'll ship a disabled-by-default MM config for it.

Try deleting everything in `ImprovedAblator.cfg` except 

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:FINAL
{
        @MODULE[ModuleAblator]
        {
                // Override the stock ablator implementation wherever it is used
                @name = ModuleAblatorImproved
        }
}

and try again.

14 hours ago, Daedalus451 said:

This doesn't seem to modify the 1.875m heat shield.

I'll fix that in the next revision. It didn't match the name pattern.

I deliberately patched only the stock heat shields first time around. But I think I'll change the criteria to patch any part with @RESOURCE[Ablator], @MODULE[ModuleAblator],#maxTemp=3300 . That way it'll catch anyone else's cloned and rescaled parts, etc, too.

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@ringerc I also play with Kerbalism btw.

Some suggestions:

GameData\ImprovedAblator\ImprovedAblator.cfg :BEFORE

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:BEFORE[ImprovedAblator]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		// Override the stock ablator implementation wherever it is used
		@name = ModuleAblatorImproved
	}
}


GameData\ImprovedAblator\HeatShieldMaxTemp.cfg :FOR

// Stock heat shields are near perfect insulators and nearly thermally
// indestructible, so their ablator is meaningless. ModuleAblatorImproved
// takes care of making them fail when ablator is depleted, but you can
// still slam into Eve at interplanetary speeds and expect to surive so
// long as you have ablator left.
//
// To fix that, make shields fail in extreme conditions, even when not
// depleted. They're still really tough, but they'll crack or otherwise
// stop protecting you if you really abuse them.
//
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Ablator],@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved],!MODULE[ModuleAnimateGeneric],#maxTemp[>2800]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]
{
	%maxTemp=2800
	%skinMaxTemp=2800
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Ablator],@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved],@MODULE[ModuleAnimateGeneric],#maxTemp[>3000]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]
{
	%maxTemp=1500
	%skinMaxTemp=3000
}

 

What about inflatable or foldable heat shield parts? In my "bonus patch" I already had fiddled rules for them.

What do you think about this?
GameData\ImprovedAblator\InflatableHeatShieldForAero.cfg :AFTER

@PART[InflatableHeatShield]:AFTER[ImprovedAblator]
{
    // The inflatible heat shield is magic, to the point where you never need
    // anything else once you have it. Nerf it a bit. It needs higher temp
    // tolerance on the skin than the ablative shields do because it doesn't
    // have pyrolisis for cooling.
    //
    // It should be useful for things like Duna landings, but lethal on Eve
    // or Jool for anything but high grazing of the atmosphere.
    //
    // One possible issue will be KSP's lack of decent "thin" atmo on dense
    // planets.
    //
    // This is rather less tuned so far, but it's shown survivable for Kerbin
    // high passes at 4500m/s
    //
    @maxTemp = 1500
    @skinMaxTemp = 3000

    // It's not great for slamming insanely into atmosphere
    %gTolerance = 15
    %maxPressure = 300 

    // TODO: aerodynamic pressure and G-force failures
}

@PART[KADEPT*]:NEEDS[TokamakIndustries]:AFTER[ImprovedAblator]
{
    // Special treatment of the foldable KADEPT heatshields from TokamakIndustries
    // because they rock - and they're made of high-tech Mystery Goo impregnated fabric
    @maxTemp = 1600
    @skinMaxTemp = 3100
}

 

Now I have to test these "simple" changes alone, without my patch.

 

But for completion, the latest state of my patch is this, as I did tests with it during last night's sessions on top of your first release configs (read the comment on top of my patch):

Spoiler

// the first line in
// GameData\ImprovedAblator\ImprovedAblator.cfg 
// has to be changed to
// @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]
//

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator],@MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface]]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch,!ImprovedAblator]:FINAL
{
	!MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] { }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved],@MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface]]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch,ImprovedAblator]:FINAL
{
	!MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] { }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	// Stock heat shields are near perfect insulators and nearly thermally
	// indestructible, so their ablator is meaningless. Modify them so that
	// re-entry heating will destory the heat shield once the ablator burns up,
	// exposing the underlying part(s).
	//
	// This has to be high enough that the shield doesn't burn up before it's
	// depleted, but below the 2700K-ish max temp the shield reaches when
	// depleted. Temp before depletion depends on ablator parameters and
	// velocity.
	//
	// Tuned for 120% atmo heating to make re-entry at 3200m/s -> pe=0 survivable
	// with a module-only craft, but not a vertical re-entry. A gentle Eve re-entry
	// is OK, a moderately steep one will be kaboomy. Aerocapture in eve requires
	// caution.
	//
	%maxTemp=1400
	%skinMaxTemp=2500

	// It'd be nice if https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_module_ablator.html
	// documented these parameters...
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		// Heat offset by each unit of ablator. Increasing this lowers the heat
		// shield temp and lowers ablator burn rate, also the total heat the
		// ablator can ever offset when maxed. Small changes effective, linear.
		//
		// I don't decrease this because I want to be able to carry plenty of
		// ablator for interplanetary re-entries, and because it
		// increases required ablator mass excessively.
		//
		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 0.8

		// Base rate of ablator burn. Increasing this increases ablator burn rate
		// and lowers temp (more units of ablator burned = more heat offset).
		// Small changes effective, linear.
		@lossConst *= 0.9

		// Temp offset for ablation. Below this temp no ablation happens. Also
		// seems to affect the heat scaling above the threshold, lowering
		// burn rate for a given lossExp. I want ablator to have a much higher
		// resilience to gentle re-entry, mainly so it doesn't all burn off before
		// the final re-entry when doing repeated passes for aerocapture.
		@ablationTempThresh = 600

		// Nonlinear factor (possibly exponent) of ablator burn rate.
		// Increasing this makes ablator burn slower and increases temp, so it
		// acts in the opposite direction to lossConst. Needs larger changes.
		@lossExp *= 0.003

		// Stock conductivity is 0.01. You'd think that lowering this
		// would make it a better insulator, accept less outside heat /
		// radiate less outside heat. But it seems to be the opposite.
		// With low values the shield heats more. While I'd like to
		// make it a better insulator, that makes it nearly
		// indestructible when ablator exhausted.
		@reentryConductivity = 0.01
		//@reentryConductivity *= 0.8
		
		%useChar = True
		%charModuleName = shieldChar
	}
	@RESOURCE[Ablator]
	{
		// Default to lighter heat shields.
		@amount *= 0.5

		// Allow bigger heat shields. Useful for repeat flybys.
		@maxAmount *= 2
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	%maxTemp=900
	%skinMaxTemp=1500

	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 0.8
		@lossConst *= 0.9
		@ablationTempThresh = 600
		@lossExp *= 0.1
		@reentryConductivity = 0.01
		//@reentryConductivity *= 0.8
		
		%useChar = True
		%charModuleName = shieldChar
	}
	@RESOURCE[Ablator]
	{
		// Default to lighter heat shields.
		@amount *= 0.5

		// Allow bigger heat shields. Useful for repeat flybys.
		@maxAmount *= 2
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	%maxTemp=1400
	%skinMaxTemp=2500

	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
		@ablationTempThresh = 600
		%useChar = True
		%charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	@RESOURCE[Ablator]
	{
		// Default to lighter heat shields.
		@amount *= 0.5

		// Allow bigger heat shields. Useful for repeat flybys.
		@maxAmount *= 2
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	%maxTemp=900
	%skinMaxTemp=1500

	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
		@ablationTempThresh = 600
		%useChar = True
		%charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	@RESOURCE[Ablator]
	{
		// Default to lighter heat shields.
		@amount *= 0.5

		// Allow bigger heat shields. Useful for repeat flybys.
		@maxAmount *= 2
	}
}

@PART[InflatableHeatShield]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    // The inflatible heat shield is magic, to the point where you never need
    // anything else once you have it. Nerf it a bit. It needs higher temp
    // tolerance on the skin than the ablative shields do because it doesn't
    // have pyrolisis for cooling.
    //
    // It should be useful for things like Duna landings, but lethal on Eve
    // or Jool for anything but high grazing of the atmosphere.
    //
    // One possible issue will be KSP's lack of decent "thin" atmo on dense
    // planets.
    //
    // This is rather less tuned so far, but it's shown survivable for Kerbin
    // high passes at 4500m/s
    //
    @maxTemp = 1500
    @skinMaxTemp = 2500

	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.25
//		@ablationTempThresh = 1100
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[InflatableHeatShield]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1000
    @skinMaxTemp = 2000

	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.25
//		@ablationTempThresh = 850
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[InflatableHeatShield]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1500
    @skinMaxTemp = 2500
	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.25
//		@ablationTempThresh = 1100
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[InflatableHeatShield]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1000
    @skinMaxTemp = 2000
	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.25
//		@ablationTempThresh = 850
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[KADEPT*]:NEEDS[TokamakIndustries,!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    // Special treatment of the foldable KADEPT heatshields from TokamakIndustries
    // because they rock - and they're made of high-tech Mystery Goo impregnated fabric
    @maxTemp = 1600
    @skinMaxTemp = 3000
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.3
//		@ablationTempThresh = 1350
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[KADEPT*]:NEEDS[TokamakIndustries,!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1100
    @skinMaxTemp = 2500
	@MODULE[ModuleAblator]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.3
//		@ablationTempThresh = 950
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[KADEPT*]:NEEDS[TokamakIndustries,!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1600
    @skinMaxTemp = 3000
	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.3
//		@ablationTempThresh = 1350
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[KADEPT*]:NEEDS[TokamakIndustries,!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    @maxTemp = 1100
    @skinMaxTemp = 2500
	@MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved]
	{
//		@pyrolysisLossFactor *= 1.3
//		@ablationTempThresh = 950
		!useChar = delete
		!charModuleName = delete
	}
}

@PART[ServiceBay_*]:NEEDS[!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    // Who needs a heat shield when a service bay is totally indestructible?
    // stock max temp was 3000.
    @maxTemp = 1600
}

@PART[ServiceBay_*]:NEEDS[RealHeat]:FINAL
{
    // Who needs a heat shield when a service bay is totally indestructible?
    // stock max temp was 3000.
    @maxTemp = 1100
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[KerbalEVA],!MODULE[ModuleAblator],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	// This is a crewed pod - is it supposed to have more than 100° C inside?
	// Caution!
	//
	%maxTemp=380
	%skinMaxTemp=1200

	// Add the option of some minimal built-in heat shielding. This makes it
	// playable in lower tech games, otherwise death is instantaneous and
	// certain. It also helps protect it against grazing heating.
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblator
		ablativeResource = Ablator
//		lossExp = -1500
		lossExp = -4.5
//		lossConst = 0.01
		lossConst = 0.009
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 4800
//		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 600
		
		useChar = True
		charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ablator
		amount = 10
		maxAmount = 20
	}	
	// and adjust the mass so we don't get the ablator mass as a weight
	// discount.
	@mass -= 0.01
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[KerbalEVA],!MODULE[ModuleAblator],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,!ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	// This is a crewed pod - is it supposed to have more than 100° C inside?
	// Caution!
	//
	%maxTemp=380
	%skinMaxTemp=1000

	// Add the option of some minimal built-in heat shielding. This makes it
	// playable in lower tech games, otherwise death is instantaneous and
	// certain. It also helps protect it against grazing heating.
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblator
		ablativeResource = Ablator
//		lossExp = -1500
		lossExp = -4.5
//		lossConst = 0.01
		lossConst = 0.009
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 4800
//		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 600
		
		useChar = True
		charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ablator
		amount = 10
		maxAmount = 20
	}	
	// and adjust the mass so we don't get the ablator mass as a weight
	// discount.
	@mass -= 0.01
}

// is this even useful anymore?
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[KerbalEVA],!MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,!RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	%maxTemp=380
	%skinMaxTemp=1200

	// seems to not working anymore with ImprovedAblator
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblatorImproved
		ablativeResource = Ablator
//		lossExp = -1500
		lossExp = -4.5
//		lossConst = 0.01
		lossConst = 0.009
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 4800
//		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 600
		
		useChar = True
		charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ablator
		amount = 10
		maxAmount = 20
	}	
	@mass -= 0.01
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[KerbalEVA],!MODULE[ModuleAblatorImproved],#CrewCapacity[>0]]:NEEDS[!DeadlyReentry,ImprovedAblator,RealHeat]:FINAL
{
	%maxTemp=380
	%skinMaxTemp=1000

	// seems to not working anymore with ImprovedAblator
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblatorImproved
		ablativeResource = Ablator
//		lossExp = -1500
		lossExp = -4.5
//		lossConst = 0.01
		lossConst = 0.009
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 4800
//		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 600
		
		useChar = True
		charModuleName = shieldChar
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ablator
		amount = 10
		maxAmount = 20
	}	
	@mass -= 0.01
}


// I could try to alter it that the values differ, for example by taking mass into account and using  "low pass filters" and "high pass filters" to have set minimum and maximum values.

 

 

Edit:

I forgot one, so
GameData\ImprovedAblator\ServiceBays.cfg

# Gently nerf service bays that have absurd max temp from stock
@PART[ServiceBay_*]:HAS[#maxTemp[>2600]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]
{
    // Who needs a heat shield when a service bay is totally indestructible?
    // stock max temp was 3000.
    @maxTemp = 2600
}

 

Edited by Gordon Dry
forgot to change something in InflatableHeatShieldForAero.cfg

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@ringerc with the slightly fixed configs above and using RealHeat I just recorded a video of an aerobrake maneuver of a Gemini capsule.

There is a very tiny amount of ablator used, like in stock. I don't agree with this.

I will put the latest version of my patch on top (this is why :FINAL is reserved for users) and record another video then.

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On 6/17/2018 at 10:39 PM, Gordon Dry said:

@ringerc I suggest that you change the
GameData\ImprovedAblator\ImprovedAblator.cfg

to
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]

instead of :FINAL

Good point. Fixed.

Interim release posted at https://github.com/ringerc/KSP-DRE-Lite/releases/tag/0.2 . I haven't updated SpaceDock yet, I want to do some QA, look into interaction with RealHeat (which I didn't know about), etc.

It's a real shame so many mods are updated on github and don't have metadata on spacedock etc, so you'd assume they're dead. I'll try to keep mine up to date. Really, SpaceDock should offer support for pulling releases from GitHub automatically...

On 6/17/2018 at 10:39 PM, Gordon Dry said:

@ringerc I suggest that you change the
GameData\ImprovedAblator\ImprovedAblator.cfg

to
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAblator]]:FOR[ImprovedAblator]

instead of :FINAL

Good point. Fixed.

Interim release posted at https://github.com/ringerc/KSP-DRE-Lite/releases/tag/0.2 . I haven't updated SpaceDock yet, I want to do some QA, look into interaction with RealHeat (which I didn't know about), etc.

It's a real shame so many mods are updated on github and don't have metadata on spacedock etc, so you'd assume they're dead. I'll try to keep mine up to date. Really, SpaceDock should offer support for pulling releases from GitHub automatically...

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@ringerc my latest experiment:

The "problem" with RealHeat is that it does not heat up so much and so quick in stock.

I guess it's really bad in RSS/RO then, but that's another story.

So, RealHeat does provide a config also for stock, but IMHO it should only be used together with RO/RSS/DeadlyReentry.

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6 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

@ringerc my latest experiment:

The "problem" with RealHeat is that it does not heat up so much and so quick in stock.

I guess it's really bad in RSS/RO then, but that's another story.

So, RealHeat does provide a config also for stock, but IMHO it should only be used together with RO/RSS/DeadlyReentry.

OK, Realism Overhaul, RSS etc isn't currently on my radar, I'm trying to keep it a bit more stock. So for now I won't chase RealHeat.

As for ablator depletion, I agree it needs some tuning (RealHeat aside). My earlier changes were too heavy handed as they attempted to make the part fail due to simple heating when depleted, without changing the conductivity or maxTemp at depletion. I may want to turn up depletion a bit, but it doesn't need to be drastic - the ablator shouldn't generally be depleted severely, and making it easily depleted makes repeated aerobraking passes a real problem.

I'm more likely to make the conductivity protection proportional to the remaining ablator, or (better, if I can make it work) to the rate of pyrolysis in the last physics frame. So you need a heavier shield for a more demanding re-entry.

The main goal was fixing those BS 0-ablator shields, though, and that's working.

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So, just doing some more tests with heat animation ...

And with RealHeat again (yeah ...)

I hope that works out well, I will see in the next session.

See

 

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5 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

So, just doing some more tests with heat animation ...

And with RealHeat again (yeah ...)

It's great that you're experimenting with that. I don't really want to pursue anything with RealHeat unless it's actually meant to work with stock though. I'll gladly take patches if you find changes are needed to make it work, but don't intend to look into it myself.

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@ringerc I'm shortly before the decision to remove the RealHeat compatibility because everything is so different with in in stock KSP - nothing is really getting hot at all ...

The "problem" is if I don't provide specific patches for RealHeat, the generic ones will be used and they even have less of a meaning then ...

I only could just say "It's incompatible, folks" and that's it.

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omg ...

returned from Mun with BDB Apollo and that stock issue again - with your mod and my patch ...

Heat shield gets slightly warmer, pod gets hot really quick.

I really don't get it.

The game needs to be fixed, all these fiddling ...

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Well, this really is weird.

Sometimes the heatshield does as intended, sometimes (with the same craft in another mission) the heatshield doesn't get hot but the pod does ...

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On 7/1/2018 at 6:56 AM, Gordon Dry said:

Well, this really is weird.

Sometimes the heatshield does as intended, sometimes (with the same craft in another mission) the heatshield doesn't get hot but the pod does ...

Is that with RealHeat or scaling mods? Or stock?

That does seem odd, anyway, especially as I cut the ablator tuning mods out in the last revision, focusing just on making sure the part can fail when depleted. I want to revisit burn rate tuning, but need something to go on in terms of "reasonable" burn rate, weight, mass, etc, and probably need to make the shield's conductive insulation properties a nonlinear function of its remaining thickness to allow for gradual failure.

I've been studying Apollo Thermal Protection System documents a little bit. Based on that I'm working on making the pods and heat shields naturally re-orient to produce a gently lifting re-entry, not a purely ballistic one, and I'm looking at what the weight and burn profiles should look like. (It's very fiddly, so I'm looking at adding tweakables for CoM/CoP/CoL on parts during experimentation).

I'll probably add upgrades to improve ablator materials in higher tech levels in KSP, but it's actually amazing how good the 1960s ones were. The Apollo capsule could have probably survived re-entry from interplanetary velocities (though the astronauts might not have).

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