Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Ok first of i'm not sure if i'm posting this in the right thread? I digress,I'm working on a Fighter that will,later on in the program need to be able to go to space.But for now i'm concentrating on the atmosphere side of it.I'm asking to all people who know alot about Avation Engeneering ect or have alot of experiance in this game if they can lend a hand with sugestions on What's stoping this thing from breaking 2 Gs in a level turn....it's like no matter wherei relocate elevator add elerons ect i cant gain pitch authority. i'm thinking weight destribution? ive centored most of the weight IE fuel tanks ect and arragedthe fuel flow to keep the centre tanks filled. SO far ihave this thign holdign level flight with out the computer help... ive added Lift and leadign edge and trailing edgecontrol surfaces. added front canards... Still this damn thing wont break 2 gs. its like it snaps to a certain Alpha angle then it wont break 2 gs. Ive tried to remove the noze cone thing.To no sucess it's somthign in thedesign i guess. any how heres pics so you can help me figer it out.1 thing to note i think that with the curent engines this thing dosent have alot of thrust at low altitudes.. higher up it does about what 350 ms? or so down low it's in the 150 ms 230... it has a lower thrust to weight ration. i wish i had tools to check excacly the numbers all i know is it cant climb straight up so,it has less thrust than weight.Heres the Craft file keep in mind it's still in Y aka prototype. http://www./?1ad1uc5pq1addr8Here is the version that does 3 g turns and flys more stable. pitches up just a tad.YF-11-3 http://www./?b6gff2xa8ujky8uBecause of the biger landing gear mod you have to put the gear in on the runway then brign them out again or you explode while you roll also on takeoff pull gently because that butt tends to scrape the runway. Edited August 27, 2012 by Dermeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Hi Dermeister, you might want to break up your text into sentences, and upload the .craft file for others to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Sorry i will edit the text and i don't really want to upload it yet since it's not yet to the specs iwant it to be.But i might later on when it's furtherdown the line and flys more like i expect it to.Right now i'm looking for opinion on what's causing my limitations ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Well the balance of any aircraft is important, and we will be getting tools for that with the next update (if it makes it in) but something you could do is add control surfaces to the front winglets, or replace them with winglets that move.If you find your craft is nose heavy, you can tilt the front winglets up slightly (Shift+WASD) to give you more lift at the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Humm sofar the aircraft i nlevel fight is pretty stable it dosent pitch up or down it keeps level ive added trims at the back to help with that and moved the wings apropriatly.My issue is that in turns this thing just does not turn to well... It rolls great however. but yes the front canards Are the moving kind u can see them moove around to when you fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Oh right, those and their stationary brethren are too similar Are you Yawing in oder to turn (A and D) or are you Rolling (Q and E) then using up elevator? I ask as rudder control is not a great way to turn even in real life, it introduces some odd effects, whereas you say you have good pitch control, so I would assume you can turn quite well if you Rolled first then Pitched up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Oh right, those and their stationary brethren are too similar Are you Yawing in oder to turn (A and D) or are you Rolling (Q and E) then using up elevator? I ask as rudder control is not a great way to turn even in real life, it introduces some odd effects, whereas you say you have good pitch control, so I would assume you can turn quite well if you Rolled first then Pitched up I roll then pull on the stick,I fly alot of Falcon BMS which is an f16 sim,When i turn i watch the Angle of attack and it must be only about 5 Deg ... That's a guesstimate ! but it's not Pitching very much on the AOA but it snapsfairly quickly then it's like theres somthign limiting my G to about 2 - 3 G max... could it be the trust vectoring? overitign the Eleron authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Having not tested this myself I can only really guess, the length of your rocket coupled with the thick atmosphere of Kerbin at low altitudes may mean there is too much air resistance for seriously fast maneuvers, I suggest you test a short stubby aircraft, and test your craft at a higher altitude, and see if it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 yea ive ben on like 20 flights testign diff configs if you want i cna upload the file for peopel to take a look at it. O_O but i use some mods on that thing like bigger gear and some missle fins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt0570 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Oh, looks like you have RCS tanks in the center wired to engines, those only power RCS thrusters (small nossles on the ship to rotate the craft in space.) The white fuel tanks have the regular amount of fuel, and is technically what you are supossed to use for air-breathing engines. The tanks with caution strips are for rockets, but currently work for space plane engines. Even those half-sized tanks you're using store more than the "correct" full-sized tanks. Keep in mind they weigh a lot more too.EDIT: you can upload the .craft file to http://www./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Ahh yes i know about the rcs, asi stated they are there because later on this thing will go to space nottice the RCS on the back near the stabs? and behind the canopy? the fuel lines on the rcs are not feeding my main engines they an attempt to make sure that as i will use RCS the fuel in those tanks will go to a desired tank to keep the plane balanced.But thanks for notticing trouble shooting requires keen eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Fuel lines have no effect on RCS fuel, all they are really doing is setting the fuelflow value of the RCS tanks to true, but you could just as easily run fuel lines from the front tanks to the rear ones directly, and right click on the front tanks to turn off their fuel flow, keeping the weight distributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Check the first post. and humm well those lines are sealed off now LOL! if i reopen that plane ill have to redo the struts. so as long as those RCS lines are not causing harm ill leave them be for the moment. once i find out why this thing dosent pull Gs i might restart from scratch and just copy the test bed but with the information i learnt from the flight testing.And update as nessesary. also the 1 i uploaded you might have to mess with the elerons at the back to trim it ive had to reclip the wings ect ajnd now i have no clue if its still balanced but it shoulen't be to bad.As it was well balanced b4 i opened it up.Watch the Alpha on landings.. it has plenty of lift to land with an alpha of 5 deg ect but if you pull to hard your but will scrape. Edited August 27, 2012 by Dermeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Update i uploaded a modified version that does 3 gs now so i gained a bit of noze authority. but now it pitches up a tad.Easy fix.It's called the Yf-11-3 Edited August 27, 2012 by Dermeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Glad to see you are making progress Dermeister Oh and don't forget you can edit your last lost in this thread as well as the first, double posting is one of those "good conduct" things, in that it's preferable to let another person answer before you post again in the same thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzaku Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Remember, you're building an aircraft out of rocketship parts. Don't try to design it to look cool, design it to be functional instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dermeister Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Remember, you're building an aircraft out of rocketship parts. Don't try to design it to look cool, design it to be functional instead. broke 9 Gs sustaind turn... i notticed that as i was burnign fuel and RCS fuel.. the plane got lighter and would manuver way better... so i think i wil lget rid of the RCS tanks and keep maybe 2 for space... and use less Fuel hungry RCS thrusters.. i was hoping by using the big ones in space id be able to fight ect.. or useRCS in atmosphere but RCS is usless in atmosphere... so inorder to get multi role i will need to loose The Rcs fuel and replace it with empty fuselage. So far tests are going good P.s why not make somthign that looks cool and is functional? who says you cant have both ifyou balance stuff out properley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzaku Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 broke 9 Gs sustaind turn... i notticed that as i was burnign fuel and RCS fuel.. the plane got lighter and would manuver way better... so i think i wil lget rid of the RCS tanks and keep maybe 2 for space... and use less Fuel hungry RCS thrusters.. i was hoping by using the big ones in space id be able to fight ect.. or useRCS in atmosphere but RCS is usless in atmosphere... so inorder to get multi role i will need to loose The Rcs fuel and replace it with empty fuselage. So far tests are going good P.s why not make somthign that looks cool and is functional? who says you cant have both ifyou balance stuff out properley?Heh, Function first, flamboyance second imo.And hopefully the functionality requires it to look cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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