[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[cipherpunks]

Ferram4, can You please look why Bacon Labs parachute (on the docking port+parachute combo) produces zero drag with FAR?

{
name = OrionDPM
type = PART
parentUrl = BaconLabs/Parts/DockingPorts/NDS-Parachute
url = BaconLabs/Parts/DockingPorts/NDS-Parachute/OrionDPM
PART
{
module = Part
name = OrionDPM
author = Shadowmage
TechRequired = veryHeavyRocketry
entryCost = 6500
cost = 320
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = Bacon Docking System (Parachute)
manufacturer = Bacon Labs
description = Nobody is sure how the Bacon Docking System's designers managed to cram three whole parachutes into a docking port while leaving the crew hatch unobstructed, but that's exactly what they've done - no longer will you need to worry about all those silly radial chutes for your docking craft!
rescaleFactor = 1
node_stack_top = 0, 0.06364,0,0, 1,0,2
node_stack_bottom = 0,-0.07432,0,0,-1,0,2
attachRules = 1,1,1,1,0
mass = 0.15
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 14
maxTemp = 2400
fuelCrossFeed = True
bodyLiftMultiplier = 0
stageOffset = -1
MODEL
{
model = BaconLabs/Assets/SC-B-121a-DPM
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleParachute
invertCanopy = true
autoCutSpeed = 0.5
capName = ParachuteCap
canopyName = CanopyTransform
semiDeployedAnimation = SCBDPMSemiDeployRaw
fullyDeployedAnimation = SCBDPMFullDeployRaw
stowedDrag = 0.20
semiDeployedDrag = 50
fullyDeployedDrag = 5000
minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
deployAltitude = 500
deploymentSpeed = 1
semiDeploymentSpeed = 1
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleDragModifier
dragCubeName = SEMIDEPLOYED
dragModifier = 3
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleDragModifier
dragCubeName = DEPLOYED
dragModifier = 12
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleDockingNode
referenceAttachNode = top
nodeType = size1
}
MODULE
{
name = JSIExternalCameraSelector
cameraContainer = NodeStackBottom
cameraIDPrefix = ExtCam
}
MODULE
{
name = BBModule
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleAGX
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleDockingNodeNamed
controlTransformName = not_initialized
portName = default
initialized = false
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleTweakableDockingNode
TDNnodeName = top
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleStagingToggle
defaultDisabled = true
activeInFlight = false
activeInEditor = true
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleFuelCrossfeedActions
}
MODULE
{
name = ModuleDockingNodeActions
}
}
}

UrlConfig

{
url = BaconLabs/Parts/DockingPorts/NDS-Parachute/OrionDPM
DRAG_CUBE
{
cube = PACKED, 0.1912594,0.722507,1.279412, 0.1906157,0.7233407,1.279412, 1.213026,0.925171,0.3645785, 1.213026,1,0.1017859, 0.2141714,0.7149879,1.142941, 0.2141714,0.7089711,1.108824, 0,0.06064296,0, 1.25,0.2719163,1.25
cube = SEMIDEPLOYED, 63.0599,2.328276,8.965659, 63.0599,2.328563,9.010713, 37.47974,0.7246969,29.76742, 37.47974,0.7249202,29.88555, 77.1748,2.36018,8.607203, 77.1748,2.366413,8.802821, -0.0001544952,14.66554,0.4745393, 11.28866,29.92179,9.77653
cube = DEPLOYED, 378.5009,8.360817,42.71132, 378.5009,8.364117,39.71754, 806.5414,8.139471,30.81947, 806.5414,7.987335,32.22675, 482.5404,8.222376,38.2234, 482.5404,8.684553,40.29888, -0.0007724762,12.77229,1.542923, 50.69433,35.68568,43.90392
}
}

PART

[ferram4]

@brusura: Not sure what's going on, but I can confirm. Something's breaking very low in the aero calculations.

@cipherpunks: The bacon labs parachute-docking port combo produces drag with FAR. I cannot produce any issue with it.

[Nigeth]

I have a really small issue with FAR. It's more of a nuisance really but maybe you would be interested to know this anyway. When I install FAR (FAR only, stock otherwise) the engineer report no longer recognizes parachutes that are attached to a vessel.

The engineer report in the VAB will always report that "parachutes are missing". Even if they are attached, integrated in the staging and actually work. If I remove FAR the engineer report will instead report "no issues".

[mjn33]

I have a really small issue with FAR. It's more of a nuisance really but maybe you would be interested to know this anyway. When I install FAR (FAR only, stock otherwise) the engineer report no longer recognizes parachutes that are attached to a vessel.

The engineer report in the VAB will always report that "parachutes are missing". Even if they are attached, integrated in the staging and actually work. If I remove FAR the engineer report will instead report "no issues".

The crux of the issue is that parachutes in FAR don't use the stock parachute part module (they use "RealChuteFAR"), and thus are not recognised as parachutes by the game. The only solution I can see is for RealChuteFAR to inherit from the stock parachute part module, and then override all or some of the stock behaviour (a bit like what SolverEngines does with ModuleEnginesFX).

Another idea would be to replace that warning with something that checks for "RealChuteFAR" part modules instead, but from what I can tell that isn't possible.

[WalterB]

The crux of the issue is that parachutes in FAR don't use the stock parachute part module (they use "RealChuteFAR"), and thus are not recognised as parachutes by the game. The only solution I can see is for RealChuteFAR to inherit from the stock parachute part module, and then override all or some of the stock behaviour (a bit like what SolverEngines does with ModuleEnginesFX).

Another idea would be to replace that warning with something that checks for "RealChuteFAR" part modules instead, but from what I can tell that isn't possible.

Actually, there is a new mod that adds additional checks to the Engineer Report and I just added a feature request.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/126662

[BudgetHedgehog]

Actually, there is a new mod that adds additional checks to the Engineer Report and I just added a feature request.

Well, to be honest, instead of relying on yet another mod to come to the rescue, seeing as FAR is able to insert its own Engineer Reports (it does so when there's high transonic drag or something), to me, it'd make more sense for FAR (as it is already interacting with the Report) to do this itself.

[GorillaZilla]

Hello there, Ive run into a major problem putting together a good realistic but simple and fun build of KSP for my Nephew who I've bought the game on steam as a gift for.....

Is there any way to disable FAR's Stab Aug? As it is causing the gimbals on engines to reverse when you get near to facing retrograde while in orbit, causing the ship to tumble out of control when attempting to burn retrograde. Only seems to happen at orbital speeds over 200ms, atleast around the mun.

Running 1.0.4

Link to Save (right click save as) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85344120/default/persistent.sfs , switch to the ship orbiting the mun, and set the sas to point retrograde and observe.

I've tried a steam refreshed bone stock game with a freshly downloaded FAR and this save run on it and the issue persists so its FAR and far alone it seems.

Without FAR and the ship in the save burns retrograde just fine.

After running into this bug I've spent hours trying to narrow down the cause, Removing mod after mod and was really surprised to find FAR as the cause as the last place I expected An Aerodynamics enhancement mod to have a gamebreaking effect on engine gimbals was in orbit around the Mun with no atmosphere to speak of......

And only found the possible reason when really digging through the settings and noticed STAB AUG (Stability Augmentation?) which must be the cause as its the only thing likely to interefere with the controls..... And this Stability augmentation was not mentioned in the Opening Post so I had forgotten it even existed until it started causing this problem.

I love FAR, the game is unplayable for me without it, it's always the first mod I install. Absolutely love Mr Ferram for making and maintaining it but right now it's giving me a headache X-|

Edited July 1, 2015 by GorillaZilla

[cipherpunks]

@cipherpunks: The bacon labs parachute-docking port combo produces drag with FAR. I cannot produce any issue with it.

Still for me, as soon as I add latest ModularFlightIntegrator to the mix, Auriga "splashes down hard and is destroyed". Running KSP 1.0.2. with FAR_0_15_3_Froude (Ferri earlier). Will re-test tomorrow with 1.0.4 and FAR_0_15_3_1_Garabedian and will report.

Edit: oh wait, there might be some other module interfering - now 0.15.3 and MFI are enabled, but a bunch of others are disabled.... And the pod goes down not at ~6 m/s as it should, and not at ~145m/s as if with zero drag, but with 17.7 m/s (!!!) and is destroyed too. TEH weirdness. Will fiddle some more.

Edited July 1, 2015 by cipherpunks

[Balto-the-Wolf-Dog]

I've developed the heating issue as well, but in my case (aside from some flashing temperature values and semi illogical heating during reentry) it's manifested only when staging and very specifically staging. Firing any kind of decoupler or even heating the previous stage to death results in instant runaway overheating of the payload. This will occur regardless of the reentry heat slider. In line with previous reports however it will happen anywhere so long as staging takes place, and the runaway centers on parts placed inside a cargo bay (in this case a probe core or an array of batteries are what fails. Other contents inside are fine). Disabling overheats via alt-f12 will result in the entire vehicle being conducted to max in a few seconds and will sometimes kraken the kerbol system to death Danny2462 style. Will post logs if that particular condition is anything new or helpful.

[WalterB]

Well, to be honest, instead of relying on yet another mod to come to the rescue, seeing as FAR is able to insert its own Engineer Reports (it does so when there's high transonic drag or something), to me, it'd make more sense for FAR (as it is already interacting with the Report) to do this itself.

That's a very good point. I didn't even make the connection with the check for high transonic drag.

But it's a moot point anyway as I have learned from the developer of Extensive Engineer Report that there's currently no way to modify/remove the check for stock parachutes. Even if Ferram added a check for the RealChuteFAR module the game will still complain about no chutes.

[BudgetHedgehog]

there's currently no way to modify/remove the check for stock parachutes. Even if Ferram added a check for the RealChuteFAR module the game will still complain about no chutes.

Well, like the fella once said, ain't that a kick in the head... :/

[ferram4]

@GorillaZilla: There is a simple way to disable FAR's Stability Augmentation. The solution is to turn them off. A more sure-fire way is to not turn them on, because they default to off. Yes, user error can cause bad things to happen, but it's not a gamebreaking issue that SAS won't let you turn off retrograde when you leave SAS on and in retrograde mode.

The stability augmentation systems have always been in FAR, since v0.1 as a little help for flying planes. The switches for them are right along the bottom of the main flight GUI. They've always been there, and they've always defaulted to off.

@cipherpunks: You using RealChute in the problem install? Because I guess that RealChute doesn't have configs for that parachute. Other than that, not much I can do, the parachute code in here is all stupid_chris's stuff.

@WalterB: It should be possible to remove the checks somehow, and I know that stupid_chris was looking into how to do it for similar reasons. We'll see if anything comes of that.

[pwnedbyscope]

so how do i remove far? sorry if its been explained before but 1040 pages is alot to shuffle through, ive removed all the files that were included with the download, but none of my control surfaces work now

[ExEvolution]

So now, I'm having some spammy log behavior where the vessel voxels are constantly being updated, in the VAB, in flight, pretty much everywhere, and its causing quite a bit of lag. I suspect this is some incompatibility with one of my mods, but it doesn't clue me in at all as to which one.

[Log]: Updating vessel voxel for Minmus Outpost

so how do i remove far? sorry if its been explained before but 1040 pages is alot to shuffle through, ive removed all the files that were included with the download, but none of my control surfaces work now

He assisted me with this before, basically it came down to, I didn't have Modular Flight Integrator installed, which is required

[ferram4]

@pwnedbyscope: That indicates that you didn't remove all the files in the download. Deleting the FerramAerospaceResearch folder would have reverted everything to the state it was before, including control surfaces reverting to the stock model. Only possibility is if something incredibly stupid happens with how stock handles saving/loading of vessels now, in which case that's an error with stock behavior that I can't fix.

@ExEvolution: If you do get drag forces, that indicates that some other mod is forcibly updating vessel voxels too often, and that's up to them to fix. If you don't then you've found a bug somehow and I need to you to document everything you did (all of it, every stupid little button you clicked or vessel you launched, EVERYTHING; leaving anything out will make it unreproducible) along with all the logs.

[ExEvolution]

I dont seem to be getting drag forces. The last craft flew very well, it just lagged my system.

I did a little testing after posting, and it looks like procedural parts is causing it.

Every time I place a procedural part in the VAB, I get a lag spike, and every time I resize one, I get another lag spike. Looked inside the debug menu and sure enough, those lag spikes were timed with voxel updates.

[ferram4]

Every time you place a part, FAR needs to update the voxel. Every time you resize something, FAR needs to update the voxel. This is not a procedural parts issue then. I'm not sure what I can do, if your install is lagging that much then it indicates that your machine is very slow at collecting garbage, because FAR doesn't produce that much with the voxelization, or else you have a lot of stuff working in the background that prevents the voxelization threads from being able to run without either interrupting KSP's main thread or trying to take priority over some other process that has been given higher priority. Not much I can do in that case, unfortunately.

[ExEvolution]

In the vab, the voxels are updating when I interact with the parts, but when flying the ship, the voxels are being updated multiple times per second, non stop

[blowfish]

In the vab, the voxels are updating when I interact with the parts, but when flying the ship, the voxels are being updated multiple times per second, non stop

Then something is updating an animation continuously. I saw this problem with FSAnimateThrottle.

[GorillaZilla]

@GorillaZilla: There is a simple way to disable FAR's Stability Augmentation. The solution is to turn them off. A more sure-fire way is to not turn them on, because they default to off. Yes, user error can cause bad things to happen, but it's not a gamebreaking issue that SAS won't let you turn off retrograde when you leave SAS on and in retrograde mode.

The stability augmentation systems have always been in FAR, since v0.1 as a little help for flying planes. The switches for them are right along the bottom of the main flight GUI. They've always been there, and they've always defaulted to off..

Thats the thing, I Never turned them on. The problem happens without any of the Stab aug functions turned on. I've tried turning them all on and off and the behaviour does not change.

I was wondering if theres a way to stop the Stab aug portion of FAR even loading as its getting confused and interfering with the controls even when stab aug is "Turned off"

And SAS does not need to be on at all for the problem to happen, the engine gimbals start turning the opposite way to the way they should once you get to within about 20 degrees of facing retrograde.... So when your within 20 degrees of retrograde when you try to steer left, the gimbaling engine will actually try to turn you right.

I confirmed this by turning off SAS, Setting the craft spinning until it hit retrograde, then used the opposite control input to the direction I wanted to turn and it would then steer perfectly.

Edited July 1, 2015 by GorillaZilla

[ferram4]

If the buttons along the bottom of the Flight GUI aren't depressed, then the Stability Augmentation functions are off. In addition, there are no FAR systems that override yaw controls at all, so right inputs will always come through as right inputs. I don't believe that this is an issue with FAR, instead I suspect that it's something else you're using that is inverting the controls. FAR does not have any ability to invert control inputs, period.

[Crzyrndm]

Those gimballing engines aren't above the CoM by any chance? I recall stock having trouble with gimbals mounted forward on the vessel

[cipherpunks]

@cipherpunks: You using RealChute in the problem install? Because I guess that RealChute doesn't have configs for that parachute. Other than that, not much I can do, the parachute code in here is all stupid_chris's stuff.

No I don't (no config), but I might try later. First of all I need to understand what's exactly is wrong with it - 17.7m/s is already something, some drag, whenearlier there was none, so that's a progress ;-) Just updated to 1.0.4 and latest FAR, will fiddle.

[GorillaZilla]

Those gimballing engines aren't above the CoM by any chance? I recall stock having trouble with gimbals mounted forward on the vessel

I wish it was something that simple

Unfortunately no, Its a poodle at the rear end of a rockomax X200-32 (Half size of jumbo) then a 2.5 meter rcs tank, 2.5 meter battery, 2.5 meter decoupler, a 2.5m heatshield then the MK1-2 3 kerbal command pod and finally a 1.25 m clampotron docking port.

4x symmetry RCS blocks on cubestrut stalks, rears are stuck to the end of the tank, fronts are on the top end of the command pod.

Should be good with the center of mass vs engine placement.

Cheers though

Currently Undergoing more testing...... The bug happens on bone stock KSP 1.0.4 freshly deleted from steam and then folder removed to totaly clean up, then redownloaded from steam. Only happens when the FAR and ModularFlightIntegrator folders are in gamedata folder, so something in stock isn't getting along with FAR for me it seems.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I recall stock having trouble with gimbals mounted forward on the vessel

I wish it was something that simple

Also, that bug was fixed.