Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[ANWRocketMan]

@nathanKell: Could I possibly make some for Near Future Propulsion pack?(I'm making and testing some this weekend) Or is that already planned?

[dimovski]

as in, I'm doing it... I was talking about doing it soon in fact... tommorow I'll start... but I was never a good balancer and I raged a lot trying to balance an R7 for Kerbin-scales... I can provide you with most if not all the stuffz however for Earth-like scales and delta-v requirements... just a question then... realistic mixture ratios? RD-107 or RD-107A (same goes for 0110 and 108)...? Superchilled propellant or not? Also, if I'll do the N1, you mind me going full retard and adding historical Blok A, aerospike A Blok A and Aerospike B Blok A, together with the N1F stuff?

Oh, and if there is N1U stats somewhere, would you mind those?

[Guest]

I'm currently working on R7. I'll probably do the N1, too. It'd be nice if you could provide additional models.

[rhoark]

Can arbitrary things go into a configuration, or only particular tags?

[NathanKell]

What things are you wanting to add? What part of the configuration?

When a configuration is selected, that entire block is copied over to the engine module, so if the engine module recognizes a line, you can add it. Only exception: If the main block includes techLevel = something, and engineType = something, etc., and the CONFIG includes IspSL and IspV, then any atmosphereCurve specified in the CONFIG will be ignored, and the correct atmosphere curve will be created from those settings (techlevel, as modified by user; engine type; with those, find correct atmosphere curve in TLTIsps in RealSettings.cfg, then apply Isp multipliers).

I need to add support for HoneyFox's engine ignition mod.

ANWRocketMan, that'd be very helpful!

dimovski, you should consider making it 1:1 realistic and use the rescaled Kerbin mod.

For super-chilled propellants, I would suggest just upping the fuel volume the tank will hold rather than trying to add new fuel types. Definitely use the right mixture ratios (but remember KSP uses volume, not mass, so you need to divide each component of the mass ratio by its density to get the volume ratio).

[Starwaster]

Starwaster: thanks, will check. I take it you got KSP running again then?

(Unless, Knuth-style, that was just from reading source!)

Well I've had it running on my MacBook for a few days but it's been an awkward as hell experience. I'm just not as familiar with Mac as I am the PC and there are definitely some idiosyncrasies that have been driving me up the damned wall. I noticed when copying the GameData folder from this or that mod that it was asking me of I wanted to replace the folder. Not overwrite or merge... replace. This after having downloaded the minimum number of mods that I cannot do without and about 3/4 of the way through installing them. So when Mac says it's replacing the folder it means literally that. Instead of a Gamedata folder full of mods (and stock Squad stuff) I had a Gamedata folder that only contained the very last mod I had tried to copy in. Mac fanbois will defend this as normal and sensible behavior. So it's been a horrific as hell experience.

And as it turns out, completely unnecessary. My 1 terabyte drive arrived today so I opened my PC up and swapped drives. Powered it up... and a Windows startup screen appeared. So it turns out that I did NOT install Win 7 to the drive I thought I had. I have no idea what is actually on that drive but it didn't have Windows, KSP or Steam or anything else that I absolutely needed so this whole time I could have just removed that drive and powered up Windows.

[rhoark]

Ignition types is one motivation for this: I'd like configurations to be able to add additional modules and resources outside the engine module.

Also flame FX

Edited October 29, 2013 by rhoark

[dimovski]

oki I'll do .cfgs 1st then... later I'll see if I can even add them to teh mod like you guys are doing...regarding superchilled propellant, thats what I thought too... taking into account Vostok K, Molniya M, and all Soyuz variants used it I think I'll make only that one... not sure regarding engine choice... and I did had a fully working R7 on 0.64 scale (I still have, in fact, but for the old old stone old Soyuz rocket mod which me and a friend of mine updated to use .mus and .mbms... cause of that I know it uses volume, too! )

PS:I still didnt had time to start KSP, since like 0.20 came out, so could you tell me if CBBPs NK-33 can use LOX/LH2? There was a 1962 (I think) study which proposed NK-33s running on LOX/LH2

PPS:There was also some crazy R7 rocket using RP and some other oxidizer giving it 360ish impulse (what current KSP rocket engines seem to use in fact)

[Starwaster]

PPS:There was also some crazy R7 rocket using RP and some other oxidizer giving it 360ish impulse (what current KSP rocket engines seem to use in fact)

Fluorine maybe....

edit: Nah nvm, I'm thinking something entirely different.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Starwaster

[bs1110101]

Can you add configs for the Kosmos engines, the Novapunch fusion engines, Roemy-Lemdun Atomics, and Star Shine Industries?

Edit: I forgot some, we also need FASA, and the Near Future Propulsion Pack.

Edited October 30, 2013 by bs1110101

[NathanKell]

First: I have updated the public spreadsheet to MFS v3 level. It currently has some "engines in progress" from the awesome Chestburster. They'll be in v4.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvHneDAy4k99dHlhdktvZW1NS1lndlhNNnRwd3FEblE&usp=sharing

Starwaster: Well, at least it ends with things working, eh?

Ignition types is one motivation for this: I'd like configurations to be able to add additional modules and resources outside the engine module.

Also flame FX

I can add support for the former. I've actually been working on the latter for a while.

I believe I've figured out how to programmattically clear the FX list and re-add the appropriate FX for each engine type, multiplied some by engine size. If you want a taste, try my real-size/mass rework of frizzank's Gemini-Titan II GLV.

I was thinking yellow for kerolox, yellow+blue for hypergolic, and blue-a-size-smaller for hydrolox. Also, much more smoke for kerolox and hypergolic.

oki I'll do .cfgs 1st then... later I'll see if I can even add them to teh mod like you guys are doing...regarding superchilled propellant, thats what I thought too... taking into account Vostok K, Molniya M, and all Soyuz variants used it I think I'll make only that one... not sure regarding engine choice... and I did had a fully working R7 on 0.64 scale (I still have, in fact, but for the old old stone old Soyuz rocket mod which me and a friend of mine updated to use .mus and .mbms... cause of that I know it uses volume, too! )

Ah, cool!

PS:I still didnt had time to start KSP, since like 0.20 came out, so could you tell me if CBBPs NK-33 can use LOX/LH2? There was a 1962 (I think) study which proposed NK-33s running on LOX/LH2

PPS:There was also some crazy R7 rocket using RP and some other oxidizer giving it 360ish impulse (what current KSP rocket engines seem to use in fact)

I have some vague memory of NK-33s tested for hydrolox but I can't recall where. It'd be way the heck later than '62 though, since they were still -15s then, weren't they?

Can you add configs for the Kosmos engines, the Novapunch fusion engines, Roemy-Lemdun Atomics, and Star Shine Industries?

Edit: I forgot some, we also need FASA, and the Near Future Propulsion Pack.

Um...FASA is in, has been since MFSC v1! So is the RLA stockalike LFE, but I haven't done the aerospike or the nuke yet.

Chestburster is handling the NTRs.

I'll see about the Kosmos engines--they should have been in long ago, I just forget each release. Oops.

[Chestburster]

Kosmos has engines now? I didn't know that. They will be added shortly and should be up with v4. But isn't the NFP all about futuristic engines that aren't possible yet in RL?

I also had the idea about limiting the throttle on some engines (70-100% for L, 50-100% for L+, 30-100% for U, 20-100% for U+). In combination with the engine ignitor mod we could up the difficulty a bit and make it more realistic. Tested that idea a long time ago but it wasn't working how i wanted (engine fx didn't shut down after disabling the engine..). I was also thinking about enabling the thrust response time..

[Truga]

I'd love thrust and ignition limits, but I'd then also want to see an option to disable engines shutting down. Say, if I have a lifter stage and I hit x to cut throttle, it actually throttles back to 70% instead of turning off completely, seeing how they can't restart.

Also, yes please on thrust response time.

[rhoark]

I can add support for the former.

Do you mean configuration beyond the engine block generally, or ignitors specifically?

[AbeS]

Just saying, but the new heat multiplier on the engines could be abused with DREC. I was watching some debris from my re-entry (fuel tank and engine) and the max temp was like 0 degrees or something

[NathanKell]

Kosmos has engines now? I didn't know that. They will be added shortly and should be up with v4. But isn't the NFP all about futuristic engines that aren't possible yet in RL?

I also had the idea about limiting the throttle on some engines (70-100% for L, 50-100% for L+, 30-100% for U, 20-100% for U+). In combination with the engine ignitor mod we could up the difficulty a bit and make it more realistic. Tested that idea a long time ago but it wasn't working how i wanted (engine fx didn't shut down after disabling the engine..). I was also thinking about enabling the thrust response time..

Yup, it's got some really nice Russian engines, much more accurate (and thus real-looking) than most KSP engines.

Yes on the throttle settings--I'll add a column to the sheet for that when I get on my desktop. When I did the Real Gemini thing I set min to maxThrust for the two LV engines, and it worked great.

Thrust response time would be interesting too. Should we just set a global figure or do you need something per engine? Do you need different response times per fuel mode?

Truga, that's exactly how it works. The way throttling works in KSP, minThrust determines the thrust of the engine at 0 throttle. Which means if we limit throttling, what we're doing is changing the thrust at 0 throttle. So the _only_ way to shut an engine down will be...to actually right-click (or actiongroup) "shut down engine."

rhoark, for now I meant ignitors specifically. The issue is that MFS is a module, and does its operations during the game. The way it's written now, on configuration switch it forces a reload of ModuleEngine using the properties in the CONFIG node. For it to support somehow also doing other things, I'd have to change that system. That's not a problem if the part already has a known other module that's constantly there (like an ignitor module), and I just change the stats of it on setting a config; but adding and removing modules on the fly is quite a bit harder. What else did you want to change?

[rhoark]

Ignition and flame FX would satisfy my plans in the near term. HoneyFox has talked about failure chance and non-ignited venting, but if those live in the Ignitor module block as well I suppose it would be covered.

I'm working on an engine config collection as one facet of a resource system, breaking down into fuel type and engine cycle. Each fuel and cycle has an associated ignition resource, but for gameplay's sake I reduce it to the most limiting resource for each pairing.

Looking a little further forward, it would be great to have modular configs for ModuleGenerator (or ResGen, but I can never get ResGen to do what its supposed to) to cut down the number of separate chemical processor parts I'll need.

[Chestburster]

Yup, it's got some really nice Russian engines, much more accurate (and thus real-looking) than most KSP engines.

Yes on the throttle settings--I'll add a column to the sheet for that when I get on my desktop. When I did the Real Gemini thing I set min to maxThrust for the two LV engines, and it worked great.

Thrust response time would be interesting too. Should we just set a global figure or do you need something per engine? Do you need different response times per fuel mode?

I've added those beauty's earlier today. Can't believe I missed them.

It is hard to find much info about the throttle response time. Maybe it should depend on the engine type and tech level. OMS should be faster than a first stage workhorse.

I'll do some more research tomorrow.

Btw. Did you get my mails? Gmail is acting weird for me in the last few days.

[NathanKell]

rhoark, I could probably hack together a ModuleGeneratorConfigs pretty easily. Let me know when you're really going to need it and I'll slot it in.

Chestburster, cool! Sounds good. The only email recently was this morning (which, since I've only just got home, I haven't answered yet.)

[Morrigi]

Are there plans to add compatibility with NovaPunch and/or KSP Interstellar?

[NathanKell]

Have you tried the mod? It's included Novapunch since forever. And in the KSP Intestellar thread, Fractal_UK posted a Modular Fuels patch for KSPI.

[Morrigi]

Have you tried the mod? It's included Novapunch since forever. And in the KSP Intestellar thread, Fractal_UK posted a Modular Fuels patch for KSPI.

Never mind, I am noob. Haven't played for a bit and I didn't see it in the changelog. That said, it might be a good idea to have a list of compatible mods in the OP.

[NathanKell]

That's entirely fair, yeah. Sorry.

[Fractal_UK]

Never mind, I am noob. Haven't played for a bit and I didn't see it in the changelog. That said, it might be a good idea to have a list of compatible mods in the OP.

Here is a new copy of the Real Fuels compatibility file for KSP interstellar https://bitbucket.org/FractalUK/kspinstellar/downloads/ModularFuelSystemCompatibility.zip, I've updated it so that the DT Vista now properly uses LiquidH2 fuel rather than continuing to use LiquidFuel.

Hopefully in the next major version of KSPI, I'll be able to add compatibility for changing the base electrolysis types, so that water electrolysis produces LiquidH2 and LiquidOxygen, as opposed to LiquidFuel and Oxidiser for those with real fuels installed. This requires a plugin update rather than mere cfg changes though so can't be done immediately, unfortunately.

[NathanKell]

Fractal_UK, mind if I put that in the OP when I add the Mods Supported section?