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czokletmuss

Community Poll: Which existing features in KSP should be expanded on in 0.25?

Which existing features in KSP should be expanded on in 0.25?  

  1. 1. Which existing features in KSP should be expanded on in 0.25?

    • Biomes - especially for Duna and Ike
      106
    • Fuel - nuclear fuel for LV-N
      16
    • EVA - limited fuel for kerbonauts
      3
    • Aerodynamics - more FAR-like
      116
    • Other
      47


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I was thinking recently that there are some things in KSP which I would like to see expanded - and by expanded I mean just that. Nothing "new", just extension of what is already implemented in the game. Then it occured to me that although there are a lot of frequently demanded features like resources I don't think there was a pool about expanding things that are already there.

And so I made this poll, out of pure curiosity :)

Personally I think nuclear fuel for LV-N would be the biggest game-changer: you would be forced to actually plan your deep space mission. Right now you can transfer fuel between the lander and transfer module, which is ridiculous. Separate nuclear fuel (heavier tanks with less fuel, possibly also much more expensive than hydrazine, LOX or whatever Kerbals use) would make the game more challenging and therefore more interesting.

To moderators: I hope this is the right thread to post it (it's a general discussion after all) but if it's not, please don't move it to the place threads die (aka Suggestions and Development Discussion).

Edited by czokletmuss

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I'm 99% certain that Squad already knows exactly what .25 will include: namely expanding on the contract system introduced in .24, and possibly implementing budgets.

Edited by Streetwind

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Game development isn't a "hop from patch to patch" affair. The studio plans many releases ahead. A more sensible poll to make would be "what existing feature should be expanded on after career mode is fully implemented". Doing so is Squad's stated goal for 2014. Whether that's going to be finished in summer or on December 31st, I don't know. But I do know that it's highly unlikely they'll accept suggestions on the development direction prior to completing that milestone, so I'll be answering from that standpoint.

I personally would second the mention of aerodynamics. I know that it is a bit of a sore topic, but honestly, I think looking at the way FAR did it is a good start. Might have to be a little simplified so you don't need to calculate twenty confusing stability derivatives before knowing whether or not your plane will fly straight. I don't personally know enough about the topic to really join in on the discussion, though.

Another thing I'd like to see would be a "Worldbuilding" update. One that focuses on filling the solar system with content - that is, giving every planet and moon proper biomes and places of interest. Even if there's only two or three, just migrating it to the biome system would help mods integrate better. For example SCANsat, which currently can use one of its parts only on Kerbin, Mun and Minmus because the other celestial bodies never got properly migrated. Along with that, more descriptions and flavor text can be strewn around. Landmarks like the [spoilerS] on Vall or the [MORE SPOILERS] on the Mun could get specific crew reports/sample recoveries that can only be done right there, investigating the strange phenomenon. There could also be a general rebalance of science experiment values and tech tree progression, probably coupled with one or two new science parts - but that might be something for a different update.

I voted for Biomes in the poll above, but my suggestion goes a bit beyond just mere biomes, which is why I called it Worldbuilding.

Edited by Streetwind

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Biomes I don't mind seeing, but I'd like something that adds something new, such as budgets.

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Game development isn't a "hop from patch to patch" affair. The studio plans many releases ahead. A more sensible poll to make would be "what existing feature should be expanded on after career mode is fully implemented". Doing so is Squad's stated goal for 2014. Whether that's going to be finished in summer or on December 31st, I don't know. But I do know that it's highly unlikely they'll accept suggestions on the development direction prior to completing that milestone, so I'll be answering from that standpoint.

Good point - unfortunately I don't know how to edit the poll. Could anyone help me with this or is it too late?

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More to do.

Remember that resource tree. . . . that would be awesome.

I basically want an official, expanded version of the Kethane mod.

Gas planet 2 would be nice too!

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The stock aerodynamics is half of the fun of KSP. If they change it then I would like an option for the Classic aerodynamics so that when I want to mess around with infinigliders and such I can still do so

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I'm probably in the minority but none of these features are things that actually interest me. Personally I just look forward to any new parts that get added, although nuclear fuel would be further down the list for me personally. Basically biomes and such don't interest me. I mean sure they add a little bit, but not much. With biomes basically all it means is I can land somewhere and get a slightly different science report. That doesn't interest me at all. What I would like is something to actually do down there. I don't consider right clicking on a few things and collecting science for all of 50 seconds a worth while reward for the journey. I want land to explore, cave systems with hidden secrets. Or at least science that actually requires some level of actual effort rather strap it on and right click it.

I find aerodynamics hard to be bothered about too since you can either fly stock or get FAR. It's not like there isn't a substitute to replace it out there.That's one of the things that recently irks me, is that all of the latest features seem to be comings in mods before stock. We already have a mod now for contracts, and that's practically the main basis of the next update, but I know it's the nature of the beast that mods may well be the first to fill a gap obviously too though. If I had to pick a feature though that I would like to be expanded for a future update it would be science that requires us to actually do something to earn it, Or IVA's which allowed us to move around and perform a variety of experiments in space.

Don't get me wrong, whatever Squad add I will appreciate whether they are of real interest to me or not, but what I want from KSP will probably only ever come from mods, expansion packs or perhaps just close to release. I just miss the .1x updates which added features that opened up whole new opportunities, whereas the updates we are receiving now will take the tools we already have and add restrictions to how we use them. Obviously this it to be expected as development edges closer to completion though.

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It's not like there isn't a substitute to replace it out there.

Well, this applies to everything - we had docking mod before it was vanilla, just like we have multiplayer now. This doesn't mean it should not find its way to the game though.

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Well, this applies to everything - we had docking mod before it was vanilla, just like we have multiplayer now. This doesn't mean it should not find its way to the game though.

I agree, I guess what I mean to say is the more you get into KSP the more you realize everything you want is already out there for the taking. Well practically everything anyway, which lessens the excitement of these updates a bit compared to the early days when just discovering the game (although I was relatively late myself) but I wouldn't look to them as purely an excuse to not have it in the game, I'd just rather see it on the shelf while they work on other things, particularly science. Aerodynamics we can get a mod for, but if there's a mod that makes science an actual task within the game rather than a menial add on to collect a resource I still haven't found it. (if there is I would love to know about it though! :) )

It's not that I think other features should be shelved all together, just that a particular existing feature is extremely hard to get interested in for me personally and I think it could really push the game to the next level by expanding upon it.

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I have to agree. It is something that bothers me too.

While having science this feature is only appearing textboxes at the moment. Don't get me wrong I appreciate that.

But in my imagination I always expected more activity in those features. It boggers my mind that Squad has a very good animator (danRosas), but is using him ATM only for promotional stuff like animated vids.

At the moment the kerbals have a very limited number of animation cycles. (walking, flying, and the flag stuff)

What I would like to see is something to actually do on EVA. For example setting up a science-station and maintaining it. Including several glorious animations we have seen in the promo-videos.

So my answer the the question "Which existing features in KSP should be expanded on in 0.25?" is:

EVA and Science with animations!

I mean look at the possibilitys if the system would work properly:

- Finally you had st. to do after landing

- You could manage and set up a workung base using you Kerbals to deploy equipment.

- And sideeffect would be, you would start to care more about your Kerbals because they would actually do something.

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i cant vote for biomes and aerodynamics, so i voted for aerodynamics to try to even it up with biomes. BOTH NEEDED SOON(ish)

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Aerodynamics, but must come with auto-generated fairings.

The new SLS has made me reverse my stance on FAR.

Otherwise, I don't exactly support nuclear fuel unless we better the TWR of the NERVA too to balance out the fuel. The NERVA is already as badly nerfed as it is, and the last thing we need is to need it more. ARM parts keep their OPness, but the SLS "balance" pack should be included on the main site.

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Nuclear fuel does not need to be implemented. Reactors can run at full power for years. The only thing that limits NTR's is their propellant supply (hydrogen).

What might be nice would be different fuel types with different ISP, weight, and volume. Also fixing the way ISP works to be more realistic (engine loses thrust in atmosphere instead of fuel efficiency)

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So my answer the the question "Which existing features in KSP should be expanded on in 0.25?" is:

EVA and Science with animations!

I mean look at the possibilitys if the system would work properly:

- Finally you had st. to do after landing

- You could manage and set up a workung base using you Kerbals to deploy equipment.

- And sideeffect would be, you would start to care more about your Kerbals because they would actually do something.

And not only it would look great but the animation is ready:

pickupa.gif

This gif has more than 12 months AFAIK.

Limited EVA fuel has existed since 0.23 if I'm correct

Technically but when you enter the spacecraft you get it all back and your jetpack is refuelled.

Nuclear fuel does not need to be implemented. Reactors can run at full power for years. The only thing that limits NTR's is their propellant supply (hydrogen).

What might be nice would be different fuel types with different ISP, weight, and volume. Also fixing the way ISP works to be more realistic (engine loses thrust in atmosphere instead of fuel efficiency)

Yup, it's the reaction mass which is needed since reactor provides power if you want to be precise - I just used nuclear fuel as a mental shortcut.

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Limited EVA fuel has existed since 0.23 if I'm correct

(this is something i overheard, dont hold me to this if its been changed) But there is a bug where no monopropellant gets used when you reenter the pod to fill up, so techincally there is still infinite EVA fuel.

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filling the solar system with content - that is, giving every planet and moon proper biomes and places of interest....Along with that, more descriptions and flavor text can be strewn around. Landmarks like the [spoilerS] on Vall or the [MORE SPOILERS] on the Mun could get specific crew reports/sample recoveries that can only be done right there...There could also be a general rebalance of science experiment values and tech tree progression, probably coupled with one or two new science parts - but that might be something for a different update.

Worldkeeping would be nice for starters, making all anomalies visitable again.

A small biome for each anomaly would suffice for the science to be special around them, although there is no way I know of to give a special reward for a single biome. (At least not in the moddable configs.)

I'd like something that adds something new, such as budgets.

Certainly on the way by now.

It boggers my mind that Squad has a very good animator (danRosas), but is using him ATM only for promotional stuff like animated vids.

- And sideeffect would be, you would start to care more about your Kerbals because they would actually do something.

An animation for actually picking up a surface sample, waving a gizmo and/or a camera around for an EVA report, fiddling with the hands for removing/storing science from/in equipement/pods ... idle animations (jumping, turning the head, fiddling with equipment ...)

Oh danRosas, your weekends are numbered now! :D

Nuclear fuel does not need to be implemented. Reactors can run at full power for years. The only thing that limits NTR's is their propellant supply (hydrogen).

What might be nice would be different fuel types with different ISP, weight, and volume. Also fixing the way ISP works to be more realistic (engine loses thrust in atmosphere instead of fuel efficiency)

Some small changes to fuel:

Rockets use oxygen and hydrogen, simple renaming of used ressources across all parts and configs

Nukes only using hydrogen, some new tanks with just hydrogen

Jets use Fuel, changes to plane parts accordingly

(Easier life support moddings reduced to oxygen and electricity)

IPS-thrust-update, a world of yes.

For most of this we do have mods, but they break so easily! :(:wink:

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Outside of adding biomes on more celestial bodies and some new experiment modules (probe camera? drill? telescope?) and spicing up planet terrain I think the current part roster should be looked at and some holes plugged.

Spaceplane parts really need a rework and a few new pieces. Like smaller size wings and ailerons, a few different wing shapes and either a variant of procedural wings or reworking the wing parts to have better fitting blocks. Also the size 2 and size 3 spaceplane parts just need to be remade altogether into something both more shiny and easier to use with existing parts. Out of all the things in the game the size 2 and 3 spaceplane parts are the only placeholder art assets left, the rest is either final or a WIP.

Oh and adding the one thing tweakables were supposed to let us do, have a tank's full capacity filled with just oxidizer or fuel as well as some autofill options (all fuel, all oxi and balanced mix in the right proportions to burn all of it).

We could use some medium sized rover bits, stuff like an enclosed crew compartment or a rover cockpit like so:

303651main_image_1265_946-710.jpg

New space station or surface base modules. Why not have a hydroponics lab small biodome for instance? Could also work as a bigger goo canister/science jr. and enhance the aesthetics of surface or orbital bases.

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The NERVA is already as badly nerfed as it is, and the last thing we need is to need it more.

The LV-N atomic rocket motor already has the same TWR the NERVA NRX/XE had IRL. Despite having a thrust of 330 kN (a lot more) at 750-850 seconds Isp (roughly the same), it was much, much heavier. Specific figures are hard to find, since they never really built more than test stand prototypes, but there's a figure of nearly 12 tons for a NERVA XE that I can't currently find anymore (sorry, I tried :(), and Wikipedia cites a dry mass of 34 tons for a rocket stage based around a single NERVA-II. Do the math, and you'll find a 12-ton NERVA sporting a TWR of 2.80 - which is pretty close to the ingame LV-N's TWR of 2.72.

In addition, the fact that you can use liquid fuel instead of hydrogen is a notable advantage - getting the same dV out of hydrogen as from an orange tank, for instance, would require a gigantic (not heavy, but gigantic) tank assembly. Building interplanetary ships with the LV-N is easier in KSP than IRL for that reason.

The LV-N might be underpowered compared to modern on-paper NTR concepts, but it pretty much hits the NERVA XE (the only NTR ever actually built in full flight configuration) spot on in both TWR and Isp. Add the fact that it's easier to use, and there's no real reason for a buff right now, at least not from a comparison-to-IRL standpoint :)

(this is something i overheard, dont hold me to this if its been changed) But there is a bug where no monopropellant gets used when you reenter the pod to fill up, so techincally there is still infinite EVA fuel.

It's not a bug, it's a feature. :D During testing, Squad found that linking EVA fuel to monopropellant led to an experience that wasn't as fun anymore, so they axed the change from the final release.

Edited by Streetwind

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Squad found that linking EVA fuel to monopropellant led to an experience that wasn't as fun anymore, so they axed the change from the final release.

I would not want hypergolic fuel anywhere near my suit anyway to be honest. :P:wink:

A new ressource would have been nice though, nothing wrong with adding it to the pods too.

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Biomes; more of them obviously, but also about 100 times more visual scatters in addition to "rock 1, rock 2, tree and cactus", scatters with colliders, just more interesting terrain in general. Tropical islands, dense jungles where you can't land because you'd crash into the canopy, mesas, lots of things.

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