[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[minepagan]

I think Tantares is already a unique mod, but if you were to make all of these new crazy sizes, then you've effectively made it so unique, that it hardly works with anything else, so honestly it's very conflicting.

I love the sizes that Curtquarquesso displayed in his earlier post, but what about compatibility with other things? The sized would be completely different!

Also @gerishanakov, you have Module Manager installed, yeah?

I agree with this. A quick fix: Have Q Tweakscale Configs installed!

(No, really....with that, the possibilities are literally endless)

[FlyMeToTheMinmus]

I agree with this. A quick fix: Have Q Tweakscale Configs installed!

(No, really....with that, the possibilities are literally endless)

Except then Tweakscale becomes a dependency, and Beale has tried really hard to avoid dependencies

[Beale]

I can say time and time again, not breaking the standard size diameters! 1.875m and 0.9375m work because they're intermediate between the stock sizes, anything in between is just messy.

Soyuz will remain 1.25m!

That being said, many thanks for the (mountain of) feedback!

Scale of parts to better orthographics solves the height problem (mostly).

Edited August 17, 2015 by Beale

[_Augustus_]

I can say time and time again, not breaking the standard size diameters! 1.875m and 0.9375m work because they're intermediate between the stock sizes, anything in between is just messy.

Soyuz will remain 1.25m!

That being said, many thanks for the (mountain of) feedback!

Rebuilding parts to better orthographics solves the height problem (mostly) anyway.

http://puu.sh/jEKb5/a520fbd3a3.jpg

Nice!

Will you be resizing the Ariane 5 to 3.125m though?

(Also your Ariane 5 lacks the upper stage )

[passinglurker]

Huh? Did I miss something I though the Soyuz don't need to be taller but instead the proton just needed to be made shorter notably around the first stage...

[tjsnh]

I can say time and time again, not breaking the standard size diameters! 1.875m and 0.9375m work because they're intermediate between the stock sizes, anything in between is just messy.

Soyuz will remain 1.25m!

That being said, many thanks for the (mountain of) feedback!

Scale of parts to better orthographics solves the height problem (mostly).

http://puu.sh/jEKb5/a520fbd3a3.jpg

Question : Are you planning to have the "core" section be one tank, or two tanks like it is now?

(personally I think there are merits to each option)

[passinglurker]

Question : Are you planning to have the "core" section be one tank, or two tanks like it is now?

(personally I think there are merits to each option)

hm if the lower core went 0.9m then the upper core could be made out of a size adapter and a standard tank eliminating the need for a specially modeled shape though this would increase part count unless the side boosters were made single piece to compensate

[Beale]

Will you be resizing the Ariane 5 to 3.125m though?

I don't have any plans for the Ariane yet.

Huh? Did I miss something I though the Soyuz don't need to be taller but instead the proton just needed to be made shorter notably around the first stage...

The current Proton is scaled pretty perfectly, length wise (as far as I can tell).

The new Soyuz is much closer to the correct scale, but as pointed out 1.5m is more correct - it is still a bit off-mark (but, size difference seems fine to me for the sake of standard part diameters).

Question : Are you planning to have the "core" section be one tank, or two tanks like it is now?

(personally I think there are merits to each option)

Separate tanks.

[passinglurker]

Unfortunately I don't think much is available at the moment, I'd like to put some craft files out there, but it's just a thing I have not had so much time to do

What are you attempting to build? I can lend a hand here maybe.

Soyuz Rocket Revamp.

It will be kind of a big project, but there are a few problems, I'm interested in gathering a bit of feedback.

So, let me pick the collective brain of the readers of this thread.

1. Size

It would appear to be slightly off-scale compared to the real deal (significantly smaller even!).

This might not be something that can be fixed without abandoning standard part diameters (don't worry, I won't!).

On a side note, the Ariane 5 is too big currently, it should be a similar size to the Soyuz rocket, but these things never seem to size up correctly.

http://puu.sh/jBKAf/3d26af5349.jpg

http://puu.sh/jBKAF/866d0af5dc.jpg

2. Booster Size

These are quite a bit wider than the core stage, a good candidate for 1.875m?

http://puu.sh/jBKYt/9ed0e63505.jpg

3. Design Style

The current design for the Vostok upper stage is what I have in mind for the entire rocket.

Plain? But very generic and gives a lot more opportunities to use the parts.

http://puu.sh/jBKKN/ac3ad4d29b.jpg

Looking at the side by sides you provided before it looked to me like the only part that wasn't scaled right was the proton first stage (to tall) unless the diagram you linked was wrong

[gerishnakov]

@gerishanakov, you have Module Manager installed, yeah?

Are they in the GameData/Tantares folder? Humm, it shouldn't matter but are they named something like _Extra_RemoteTech?

Yep and yep, but for some reason the changes aren't being made when I load up KSP.

[VenomousRequiem]

Yep and yep, but for some reason the changes aren't being made when I load up KSP.

Have you tried turning your computer off and on again?

Is your MM plugged in?

Did you disable to pop-up blocker?

Did you try punching it?

Really though, I haven't a clue.

[Beale]

Looking at the side by sides you provided before it looked to me like the only part that wasn't scaled right was the proton first stage (to tall) unless the diagram you linked was wrong

The current Proton was modelled from quite good orthographic drawings (from here IIRC).

Its proportions should be correct.

Yep and yep, but for some reason the changes aren't being made when I load up KSP.

Screenshot GameData folder.

Here's the idea for texture, work in progress.

[pTrevTrevs]

The current Proton was modelled from quite good orthographic drawings (from here IIRC).

Its proportions should be correct.

Screenshot GameData folder.

Here's the idea for texture, work in progress.

http://puu.sh/jF7Dd/94571a5064.jpg

I guess I'm a little late on mentioning this, but I'm pretty sure the bulge on the R-7 core isn't quite as pronounced as that. Have you modeled the parts on orthographics, or just scaled them as such?

[Beale]

I guess I'm a little late on mentioning this, but I'm pretty sure the bulge on the R-7 core isn't quite as pronounced as that. Have you modeled the parts on orthographics, or just scaled them as such?

The bulge is indeed this pronounced, you can compare orthographics to the model to see! (I've used a few different sources) It's just the case the real Soyuz first stage has a wider top diameter. For accurate scale, the top of that tank would be 1.5m or close.

You can see the untextured version in my previous post, how the bulge looks for the entire core and booster assembly.

I also have a little bonus idea on the fairings, stay tuned.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Beale

[passinglurker]

The bulge is indeed this pronounced, you can compare orthographics to the model to see! (I've used a few different sources) It's just the case the real Soyuz first stage has a wider top diameter. For accurate scale, the top of that tank would be 1.5m or close.

So what do you think of the idea that was kicked around of making the lower core 0.9m then?

[pTrevTrevs]

The bulge is indeed this pronounced, you can compare orthographics to the model to see! (I've used a few different sources) It's just the case the real Soyuz first stage has a wider top diameter. For accurate scale, the top of that tank would be 1.5m or close.

You can see the untextured version in my previous post, how the bulge looks for the entire core and booster assembly.

I also have a little bonus idea on the fairings, stay tuned.

Hmm, I see, it looks better with the bottom tank and boosters.

[tjsnh]

Question; With the Soyuz getting some revamp attention, is it also going to get new specs?

The current soyuz seems tremendously OP, and can easily send a soyuz sized payload into Munar orbit. I had to double the weight of the rocket in order to nerf it so a vostok (even without the upper R7 stage, going from bulge directly to vostok) wasn't launchable into solar orbit.

[Beale]

So what do you think of the idea that was kicked around of making the lower core 0.9m then?

I'm not sure how I'd feel about it... Maybe I need to do some mockups.

Question; With the Soyuz getting some revamp attention, is it also going to get new specs?

The current soyuz seems tremendously OP, and can easily send a soyuz sized payload into Munar orbit. I had to double the weight of the rocket in order to nerf it so a vostok (even without the upper R7 stage, going from bulge directly to vostok) wasn't launchable into solar orbit.

My feeling is: balance it against stock - if it happens to be overpowered, so be it (Perhaps pointing that stock parts are overpowered?).

So basically, fuel amounts should be correct to stock ratios, and engines should be of a similar mass, efficiency and thrust rating.

I think the current parts are not balanced in this way - hence why they are so powerful.

[VenomousRequiem]

My feeling is: balance it against stock - if it happens to be overpowered, so be it (Perhaps pointing that stock parts are overpowered?).

So basically, fuel amounts should be correct to stock ratios, and engines should be of a similar mass, efficiency and thrust rating.

I think the current parts are not balanced in this way - hence why they are so powerful.

Hm... "Tremendously OP"... Actually quite the contrary. Honestly, I play with Kscale2, but the rockets should all still work fine, however the current R-7's TWR drops to an almost unusable level whenever I jettison the boosters...

[tmccreight651]

is there anywhere i can get craft/subassembly files for this, 2 of the files are broken

[Beale]

Hm... "Tremendously OP"... Actually quite the contrary. Honestly, I play with Kscale2, but the rockets should all still work fine, however the current R-7's TWR drops to an almost unusable level whenever I jettison the boosters...

I don't suppose you are cross-feeding the booster tanks into the core? This is often the cause of <1 TWR at Korolev cross.

is there anywhere i can get craft/subassembly files for this, 2 of the files are broken

Not at the moment, sorry!

How about this?

[_Augustus_]

I don't suppose you are cross-feeding the booster tanks into the core? This is often the cause of <1 TWR at Korolev cross.

Not at the moment, sorry!

How about this?

http://puu.sh/jGbxW/b4fe46aa93.jpg

Nice!

[VenomousRequiem]

I don't suppose you are cross-feeding the booster tanks into the core? This is often the cause of <1 TWR at Korolev cross.

As in do I have fuel lines feeding the boosters into the core? Of course not, that's not how the Soyuz works. xD

But really, the engines aren't powerful enough, but the amount of fuel is perfectly fine. Maybe should be dropped a little.

The new tanks looks great, as well! Very basic looking and I like that! I can make my Vostok-K rocket look proper now.

In other ideas, someone should make an optional texture switch for the rockets to switch the R-7 tanks between the textures of like the classic green Semyorka, or Molniya, or the Vostok-K's boosters having the black coloured bottoms.

[Kibble]

http://puu.sh/jGbxW/b4fe46aa93.jpg

You should make a version of the core tank for Soyuz 2-1v <3

[Xuixien]

Before I build and launch stuff, are the stock docking ports (small and medium Clampotrons) compatible with the small and medium androgynous docking ports of this mod?