[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[BioSehnsucht]

If you can store it as a sparse file, all the unscanned areas at least won't take up any (or much, due to block sizes etc) space, at least on reasonable filesystems. Though, I'm not sure you can do that from within Mono / .net / unity ?

[Wren]

So yeah, I put in a 14 hour work day and haven't gotten to do anything with KSP until a few minutes ago. I deleted and reinstalled the ORS and Kerbonite folders and installed .7 again and the scoops now deploy and pull very small amounts of Kerbonite from Kerbin sea level atmosphere.

Does the ppm go up or change at different altitudes?

The air intake looks much improved, and those prop engines are pretty cool, and I like the sounds for them. So much creative and neat things being done here, thanks again for all the stuff you contributors are doing!

[protoz]

What is the goal of atmospheric / oceanic resources? Is it just alternative ways to obtain fuel other than karbonite?

Edited August 1, 2014 by protoz

[RoverDude]

Quick question: does Minmus have any current Karbonite hotspots? I don't see any when I scan it with the scanner, but the scanner works for other planets (well, Kerbin) so I assume they've not been added to Minmus yet?

It's probably a planet I missed in troubleshooting the hot spots, adding it to my launch list

Would it be possible to limit a single refinery unit to converting to a single resource? Then allow a tweak in the VAB to choose what resource. The KSPI generators sort of work this way - change modes in the VAB but then are locked into that configuration in flight.

This way we could avoid having a magic converts-everything-at-the-same-time part, but still avoid part bloat.

It also would dovetail well with unlocking certain conversion in the tech tree, or even the ability to upgrade it to be able to convert two resources.

Could maybe do something similar with the resource extraction parts...

See below

Yes it is. Try this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/CustomKarboniteExtractor%20%28v1%29.zip

It's a quick and dirty custom converter template thing I put together, with instructions for those who don't know what to do with it. Both the instructions and the parts may or may not work, RoverDude was going to take a look at it at some point, but haven't heard one way or the other (or am blind, which is very possible).

Let me look at this, sorry I'm up to my armpits in submissions - which is awesome, but I absolutely apologize if I misse something. I'll be going over the thread and my PMs again in detail wrapping up for launch.

Firing test of future Ka fueled atmospheric engine. turn up your volume.

Oh dear mother of god that is awesome!

Alright so here's the .dae, I'll look at the turbojet part and steal from there just be forewarned this is my first time making a part...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwp_yeS55-mWbEx0UU1HRU1xRUk/edit?usp=sharing

EDIT: Just found some clipped faces, I deleted them.

Thanks will take a look

So yeah, I put in a 14 hour work day and haven't gotten to do anything with KSP until a few minutes ago. I deleted and reinstalled the ORS and Kerbonite folders and installed .7 again and the scoops now deploy and pull very small amounts of Kerbonite from Kerbin sea level atmosphere.

Does the ppm go up or change at different altitudes?

The air intake looks much improved, and those prop engines are pretty cool, and I like the sounds for them. So much creative and neat things being done here, thanks again for all the stuff you contributors are doing!

PPM is purely based on the resource PNG

What is the goal of atmospheric / oceanic resources? Is it just alternative ways to obtain fuel other than karbonite?

Alternate ways of finding Karbonite, and also solves some interesting problems... like getting fuel on Jool, dealing with Laythe's oceans, and explaining those oceans of rocket fuel on Eve.

[rockshow4070]

What is the goal of atmospheric / oceanic resources? Is it just alternative ways to obtain fuel other than karbonite?

The goal is just to have alternative ways of doing things, as far as I know. Other mods may have specific resources that can only be gathered in one of the ways, though.

[RoverDude]

So last thing before I sign off.

Given that I usually do the donation bit (it actually does help buy the beer and coffee, and the goodwill of my lovely wife that allows me the time to make mods), my intent will be to request folks let me know how to distribute their donation (I know our fantastic modellers deserve the lion's share of the credit), but in the event that a donation is not directed at a specific team member/team members, then I would propose giving the balance to charity (there's a local one for childhood cancer that is a great cause and one that I support regularly).

This way it lets folks show their appreciation for the mod and it's various contributors, keeps things fair, and lands on a default that I would like to think everyone would be happy with.

Again, just one of those small details that I would rather sort out first to keep things fair, friendly, and community focused.

[blackheart612]

I contributed once already, and I can still, if you consider that as being part of the team already, I'm willing to help without any share (lol seriously).

[RoverDude]

I contributed once already, and I can still, if you consider that as being part of the team already, I'm willing to help without any share (lol seriously).

Oh, was not a solicitation at all, just one of those admin details that can hurt feelings so I try to take care of these early on

[blackheart612]

Ah yes. True. I remember Scott Manley talking about it in one of his videos lol.

[Reign Of Magic]

Well I remade the generator, that first one was a tad shameful even for a first go. Main changes: Less awful textures (no more flat textures), better model overall (less sharp angles), an animation (coils in the middle spin)

Stats for the generator as per my part cfg *subject to change/balancing*

mass = 0.5

dragModelType = default

maximum_drag = 0.2

minimum_drag = 0.2

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 7

maxTemp = 3000

Cost = 5000

Power output: 100 EC for .2 Karbonite

Give me feedback on any changes you guys might have! Remember, Be Brutal!

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvfburpsy0dgjy5/DerpShield%20Mk2.rar

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[erbmur]

Has anybody managed to get the new ramscoop part to work?

EDIT: Ignore me, didn't know we could change the resource that the scoop was gathering. So now that I have learnt that, the oxygen would be for TAC Life support I assume, but what would the hydrogen and nitrogen be used for?

Edited August 1, 2014 by erbmur

[erbmur]

Checking the config files and also ingame using mechjeb, karbonite is denser than all the resources, fuel, oxidizer and monoprop, however, during conversion, 1 unit of karbonite is converted into 0.9 units of each of the other resources. Meaning mass is lost somewhere, especially in the context of converting into monoprop.

Are the conversion rates/density of karbonite subject to change? Either increasing the conversion ratio so you get more units of fuel per karbonite (based on a ratio of mass between karbonite and the required fuel), or decreasing karbonites density below that of the fuels, which would actually lead to making it more efficient to transfer karbonite in its raw form to an orbital space station before refining into the required fuel type?

[smunisto]

Well I remade the generator, that first one was a tad shameful even for a first go. Main changes: Less awful textures (no more flat textures), better model overall (less sharp angles), an animation (coils in the middle spin)

Stats for the generator as per my part cfg *subject to change/balancing*

mass = 0.5

dragModelType = default

maximum_drag = 0.2

minimum_drag = 0.2

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 7

maxTemp = 3000

Cost = 5000

Power output: 100 EC for .2 Karbonite

Give me feedback on any changes you guys might have! Remember, Be Brutal!

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvfburpsy0dgjy5/DerpShield%20Mk2.rar

http://imgur.com/a/W1ou9

Regarding the model...um...all of the other parts seem to be keeping more on the "realism" side of things. This start button, while extremely-kerbalish, doesn't seem to fit much with the mod line.

[sidfu]

probaly intental right now erbmur to allow others to make custom setups i play once i get back from dentist today for fitting of my dentures to see if i can make a custom setup for the refinery(sucks to lose all your teeth at 36 due to infection and a unbreakable grinding of teeth when i sleep)

[Floppster]

Well I remade the generator, that first one was a tad shameful even for a first go. Main changes: Less awful textures (no more flat textures), better model overall (less sharp angles), an animation (coils in the middle spin)

Stats for the generator as per my part cfg *subject to change/balancing*

mass = 0.5

dragModelType = default

maximum_drag = 0.2

minimum_drag = 0.2

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 7

maxTemp = 3000

Cost = 5000

Power output: 100 EC for .2 Karbonite

Give me feedback on any changes you guys might have! Remember, Be Brutal!

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvfburpsy0dgjy5/DerpShield%20Mk2.rar

http://imgur.com/a/W1ou9

I actually liked the first one more, it seemed to fit more with the other parts. Both in model and texture.

[Phers]

anyone done any youtube vids of this mod in action?

[Mutifex]

Checking the config files and also ingame using mechjeb, karbonite is denser than all the resources, fuel, oxidizer and monoprop, however, during conversion, 1 unit of karbonite is converted into 0.9 units of each of the other resources. Meaning mass is lost somewhere, especially in the context of converting into monoprop.

Are the conversion rates/density of karbonite subject to change? Either increasing the conversion ratio so you get more units of fuel per karbonite (based on a ratio of mass between karbonite and the required fuel), or decreasing karbonites density below that of the fuels, which would actually lead to making it more efficient to transfer karbonite in its raw form to an orbital space station before refining into the required fuel type?

I believe it has been mentioned a few times that mass is intended to be lost in the conversion process. No refining process should really be perfect.

[RoverDude]

anyone done any youtube vids of this mod in action?

There are numerous test videos in the thread.

[RoverDude]

Has anybody managed to get the new ramscoop part to work?

EDIT: Ignore me, didn't know we could change the resource that the scoop was gathering. So now that I have learnt that, the oxygen would be for TAC Life support I assume, but what would the hydrogen and nitrogen be used for?

Those are built into ORS. At some point I want to do some cleanup on that and propose an alternate resource set as those are either KSPI specific or not used.

Checking the config files and also ingame using mechjeb, karbonite is denser than all the resources, fuel, oxidizer and monoprop, however, during conversion, 1 unit of karbonite is converted into 0.9 units of each of the other resources. Meaning mass is lost somewhere, especially in the context of converting into monoprop.

Are the conversion rates/density of karbonite subject to change? Either increasing the conversion ratio so you get more units of fuel per karbonite (based on a ratio of mass between karbonite and the required fuel), or decreasing karbonites density below that of the fuels, which would actually lead to making it more efficient to transfer karbonite in its raw form to an orbital space station before refining into the required fuel type?

By design - you lose a lot of mass in the refining process, and some processes in the end will only do a partial refine.

[SpeedDaemon]

Well I remade the generator, that first one was a tad shameful even for a first go. Main changes: Less awful textures (no more flat textures), better model overall (less sharp angles), an animation (coils in the middle spin)

Stats for the generator as per my part cfg *subject to change/balancing*

mass = 0.5

dragModelType = default

maximum_drag = 0.2

minimum_drag = 0.2

angularDrag = 2

crashTolerance = 7

maxTemp = 3000

Cost = 5000

Power output: 100 EC for .2 Karbonite

Give me feedback on any changes you guys might have! Remember, Be Brutal!

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvfburpsy0dgjy5/DerpShield%20Mk2.rar

http://imgur.com/a/W1ou9

I think the "start" button needs to be re-labeled to "Do Not Press" or something...

[RoverDude]

Quick update.

Some new modules - a particle collector (That lets you get atmospheric resources on the edge of the atmosphere). Current range is 10% of the atmosphere (so for Kerbin, this is about a 7K band). Also a very generic ScoopedAir resource and matching intake specifically for jet engines, can be used alone or in conjunction with an atmospheric scoop.

I'm going to add in the atmospheric engines, and any bits that are at a completed or close to completed state (for some of the newer assets folks are working on, we can add these once the modeling process is done as we have a few WIP's).

So I think the code is almost wrapped up. I'm going to go through the thread one more time for issues that I may have missed, with the intent of posting a real RC tonight. We'll then enter part/model freeze (so keep working on stuff, but nothing new will make it into the first release) and focus on launch.

My request is going to be for everyone to swarm on this and make sure we're ready for an initial public release this weekend

[goldenpsp]

Quick update.

Some new modules - a particle collector (That lets you get atmospheric resources on the edge of the atmosphere). Current range is 10% of the atmosphere (so for Kerbin, this is about a 7K band). Also a very generic ScoopedAir resource and matching intake specifically for jet engines, can be used alone or in conjunction with an atmospheric scoop.

I'm going to add in the atmospheric engines, and any bits that are at a completed or close to completed state (for some of the newer assets folks are working on, we can add these once the modeling process is done as we have a few WIP's).

So I think the code is almost wrapped up. I'm going to go through the thread one more time for issues that I may have missed, with the intent of posting a real RC tonight. We'll then enter part/model freeze (so keep working on stuff, but nothing new will make it into the first release) and focus on launch.

My request is going to be for everyone to swarm on this and make sure we're ready for an initial public release this weekend

Just curious, but will any new extraction/conversion/storage parts make it into the initial release? The addition of new engines and the like are cool and all, but the options for drills, and conversion/storage tanks is still extremely limited. Of course I ask knowing full well I lack the knowledge of how to make these things so I am unable to help. I was just curious.

[RoverDude]

Just curious, but will any new extraction/conversion/storage parts make it into the initial release? The addition of new engines and the like are cool and all, but the options for drills, and conversion/storage tanks is still extremely limited. Of course I ask knowing full well I lack the knowledge of how to make these things so I am unable to help. I was just curious.

It's totally a matter of what parts I get. The one reason I like the new engines being in is it gives me a chance to test all bits of the plugin code. And this will of course not be the only release I'll likely be plugging in new parts pretty frequently as they roll in - I just don't want to delay an initial release.

[maxrsp]

This is just awesome! You guys have come so far so fast; you've managed to be totally open and collaborative while still managing the herd the cats into some form of cohesiveness

I know you still haven't even done the first full release yet but this mod is destined to be a great success because of your approach and vision.

Great job RoverDude and team! I can't wait to play this weekend

Edited August 1, 2014 by maxrsp

[RoverDude]

This is just awesome! You guys have come so far so fast; you've managed to be totally open and collaborative while still managing the herd the cats into some form of cohesiveness I know you still haven't even done the first full release yet but this mod is destined to be a great success because of your approach and vision. Great job RoverDude and team! I can't wait to play this weekend

Thanks! No way at all that I could have pulled this off without the community. I have very high hopes for this mod