[1.0.5] Snacks! Kerbal simplified life support v0.3.5

[spoonyboobah]

I always wanted Snacks to be converted as such with a "Snack Greenhouse" part to produce with Light and ElectricCharge a resource called "Crops/Biomass" (whatever you wanna call it) and have a kerbal harvest it then a "Snack Kitchen" part that uses just ElectricCharge and a Kerbal in the part to convert the crops/Biomass into Snacks but produces excess heat as a by-product and if not radiated properly could cause explosions.

[tgruetzm]

I always wanted Snacks to be converted as such with a "Snack Greenhouse" part to produce with Light and ElectricCharge a resource called "Crops/Biomass" (whatever you wanna call it) and have a kerbal harvest it then a "Snack Kitchen" part that uses just ElectricCharge and a Kerbal in the part to convert the crops/Biomass into Snacks but produces excess heat as a by-product and if not radiated properly could cause explosions.

You're probably right about a greenhouse being better than my idea of using ore. My main limitation is I don't have very good 3D modelling skills(don't really have the time to learn at the moment).

I actually really prefer to use a greenhouse vs magically baking snacks from ore. Although I guess as long as that ore has some oxygen, carbon and hydrogen it should be possible...

I really didn't want to add more than one resource, but I might add a waste/garbage? resource and require a greenhouse to grow the edible snacks. I think RoverDude has a pretty generous license for some of the OKS parts, so I could probably borrow/repackage a greenhouse. Anyone know of any good greenhouse models with generous licensing? I know I have one linked at the original post... but I'm personally not a big fan of it..

[wasml]

Anyone know of any good greenhouse models with generous licensing?

I've been using zzz Hub with a Snacks module added - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43840

about half way down the page are two "Hubs" - one looks like a green house.

zzz's models are public domain as stated in that same post at the bottom.

[passinglurker]

You're probably right about a greenhouse being better than my idea of using ore. My main limitation is I don't have very good 3D modelling skills(don't really have the time to learn at the moment).

I actually really prefer to use a greenhouse vs magically baking snacks from ore. Although I guess as long as that ore has some oxygen, carbon and hydrogen it should be possible...

I really didn't want to add more than one resource, but I might add a waste/garbage? resource and require a greenhouse to grow the edible snacks. I think RoverDude has a pretty generous license for some of the OKS parts, so I could probably borrow/repackage a greenhouse. Anyone know of any good greenhouse models with generous licensing? I know I have one linked at the original post... but I'm personally not a big fan of it..

I'd just make ore the garbage that results from eating snacks

[mitko]

While I understand the appeal of greenhouses and such, Isn't one of this mod's peculiar features that it doesn't add new parts to the game. The Greenhouse could be an optional extension of the mod, but in my opinion a function to produce snacks should be added to one of the stock parts. The simplicity and the zero part impact on the game is what attracted me to Snacks! in the first place. This and the fact that the best way to transport snacks is with habitation modules, which forces the player to build ships with large habitable volume. This is an UNIQUE feature of this mod. With all other LS mods you can stick the kerbal in a cramped capsule and send him/her on a multi-year mission as long as you put enough containers with supplies.

[passinglurker]

Don't think of ore->snacks as food from rocks think of it as nutrients for edible plants from rocks(this goes back to a harvest based system I suggested ages ago where you got your snacks in bursts of random size as opposed to a steady trickle of food). Also it's sensible to grow your edible plants under lamps in a lab when in space because you can control the lamp more easily than you can the sun (raw unfiltered sunlight can be brutal on life acclimated to the surface of the earth not to mention the way large greenhouse windows and micro meteorites and other debris act around each other)

Edited May 9, 2015 by passinglurker

[tgruetzm]

I posted a rebuilt version for 1.0.2. Nothing has changed functionally, but I'm toying with some ideas. Thanks everyone for their feedback and support of this mod.

The most critical part of this mod, is that it needs to be simple. So the original idea of using the Lab instead of a greenhouse is definitely simpler. I'm still somewhat split on another waste type resource vs using Ore as the waste product. Typically you're not going to have Ore capacity on most ships, so many times snack waste will still be thrown out the window so to speak.

[passinglurker]

I posted a rebuilt version for 1.0.2. Nothing has changed functionally, but I'm toying with some ideas. Thanks everyone for their feedback and support of this mod.

The most critical part of this mod, is that it needs to be simple. So the original idea of using the Lab instead of a greenhouse is definitely simpler. I'm still somewhat split on another waste type resource vs using Ore as the waste product. Typically you're not going to have Ore capacity on most ships, so many times snack waste will still be thrown out the window so to speak.

The alternative is to make snacks massless so the absence of snacks represents the presence of waste. that way you can have your waste without relying on ore that you don't get till late game or a whole new resource that reduces the simplicity.

[tgruetzm]

The Snack Cultivator is here! Snacks can now be created with a lab module, Ore and lots of electricity. The Snack Cultivator does the hard work of producing delicious, nutritious snacks. I also increased snack consumption to 1 snack per day from .5 snacks. This effectively doubles consumption. Snacks are now mass-less in order to easily deal with Ore-> snack conversion ratios and avoid re-balancing supply/consumption rates.

[Mister Spock]

Sounds interesting! So when you bake Snacks, does your supply of Ore and electricity go down? Will there be a steady reduction of mass when the oven is on?

[passinglurker]

I haven't had a chance to try it yet but a reduction in mass when converting from ore is what stock does when making fuel.

[tgruetzm]

I haven't had a chance to try it yet but a reduction in mass when converting from ore is what stock does when making fuel.

I thought converting ore-> fuel was mass neutral? Maybe I didn't look closely enough, but I thought for sure that was the case. Ore -> snacks currently causes a loss in mass while operating the Snack Cultivator since we're converting heavy ore to massless snacks. Currently as long as you have the electricity and ore, the cultivator will continue to run. Actually this is using the new 1.0 part module that the ISRU uses to create fuel so it works identically. My plan is to extend this module so I can have a bit more control over how this works. Specifically I'd like Kerbals to be present to operate/manage the process and possibly change exactly when snacks are added to the inventory but this requires quite a bit more time/effort than I had this weekend.

[shaw]

I thought converting ore-> fuel was mass neutral? Maybe I didn't look closely enough, but I thought for sure that was the case. Ore -> snacks currently causes a loss in mass while operating the Snack Cultivator since we're converting heavy ore to massless snacks. Currently as long as you have the electricity and ore, the cultivator will continue to run. Actually this is using the new 1.0 part module that the ISRU uses to create fuel so it works identically. My plan is to extend this module so I can have a bit more control over how this works. Specifically I'd like Kerbals to be present to operate/manage the process and possibly change exactly when snacks are added to the inventory but this requires quite a bit more time/effort than I had this weekend.

Ore -> LF/OX/LOX is mass neutral, but ore -> monoprop losses 20% mass.

- - - Updated - - -

I've made several improvements to snacks MM patch:

1. patch is made independent of crewCapacity, it works for any crewCapacity > 1

2. snacks resource is added to pods only when not already present and only when Snacks plugin is installed

3. lab and seat patches are made generic to work with any lab or seat, not only the stock ones

http://pastebin.com/CKPpxpAF

Edited May 12, 2015 by shaw

[mitko]

shaw you have forgotten to include a part of the code that defines the snack capacity of the laboratories as 100 snacks/kerbal, and as a result now the lab has 400 snacks instead of 200.

The needed code is this

@PART

[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleScienceLab],#CrewCapacity

[*],~CrewCapacity[0],!RESOURCE[snacks]]:FOR[snacks]

{

RESOURCE

{

name= Snacks

amount = 100

@amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$

maxAmount = 100

@maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$

}

}

Edited May 23, 2015 by mitko

[MikeBenton]

I'm having an issue with the snacks mod in the VAB. I haven't tried SPH. However the attachment points aren't working. I'm able to attach an inline to the bottom of another module but not the top and nothing to the bottom of the inline snacks module.

[mitko]

Your problem is with Snacks Life Support Parts by Whyren since Snacks mod doesn't add new parts to the game. Whyren hasn't updated his parts for 1.0.

[MikeBenton]

Your problem is with Snacks Life Support Parts by Whyren since Snacks mod doesn't add new parts to the game. Whyren hasn't updated his parts for 1.0.

AH, good to know. Thank you. I'll be patient and wait for the update before I start sending out refueling depots.

[passinglurker]

AH, good to know. Thank you. I'll be patient and wait for the update before I start sending out refueling depots.

I never understand why people always insist on having extra parts added when this mod is designed and balanced to not need them

Have you considered just using hitchhiker crew cans or crew cabins instead? That is what they are there for. You see the MM patch that adds snack capacity to all crewed parts makes it so commandless crew cans hold more snacks per crew capacity than command pods(200 per seat vs. 50) thereby allowing parts like crew cabins and crew cans to function as snack storage eliminating the need for part catalog cluttering snack tanks saving you ram and also encouraging you to make ships with living space proportional to the size of your crew and how long they will be traveling.

[B-STRK]

I never understand why people always insist on having extra parts added when this mod is designed and balanced to not need them

Have you considered just using hitchhiker crew cans or crew cabins instead? That is what they are there for. You see the MM patch that adds snack capacity to all crewed parts makes it so commandless crew cans hold more snacks per crew capacity than command pods(200 per seat vs. 50) thereby allowing parts like crew cabins and crew cans to function as snack storage eliminating the need for part catalog cluttering snack tanks saving you ram and also encouraging you to make ships with living space proportional to the size of your crew and how long they will be traveling.

True (and it is what I enjoy about the mod), but I guess some people--and I do count myself among them--perhaps are looking for independent snack storage parts so that they could cargo them in unmanned resupply vessels, without having to mount crew tanks to serve the purpose. Considering that a given command pod could support its crew for ~50 days, and a full Hitchiker will last ~200, though, I guess resupply is of a lower priority than with more intensive life support mods.

As it is, however, for resupply plans I'm planning on using a Mk2 crew tank as a heavy Snacks and crew resupply shuttle, particularly for offworld base-orbit from a mining site; it's the lowest-profile (not sure about weight, though) solution for a Snacks resupply vessel of that size (4 pax = 800 Snacks). (For a lighter option, I have to go to US' Snack wedges for a 1.25m solution (44 Snacks @ wedge x 4 wedges = 176 Snacks for a Cygnus-type resupply).

This isn't intended to be pressure on tgruetzm to add parts to the mod. (a) I like that he didn't, for simplicity and RAM purposes (though I'll just have to wrap my head around how inorganic Ore gets turned to edible yummies by the magic of science Mobile Processing! Or perhaps there are some things living in the regolith that are best not thought about ). ( Like earlier mentioned, other mods can handle the load, and provide options. Different solutions end up leading to different aesthetics (and launch loads), though, but it ultimately boils down to the challenge of design. And I do like how Snacks, even on its own, makes me think.

Speaking of crew tanks, and forgive me for going on another topic, but I noticed on my install that the Mk3 passenger modules don't carry any snacks. Was this the intended behavior (after all, at 16 passengers, that's a LOT of snacks! )?

Edited May 24, 2015 by B-STRK

[passinglurker]

True (and it is what I enjoy about the mod), but I guess some people--and I do count myself among them--perhaps are looking for independent snack storage parts so that they could cargo them in unmanned resupply vessels, without having to mount crew tanks to serve the purpose. Considering that a given command pod could support its crew for ~50 days, and a full Hitchiker will last ~200, though, I guess resupply is of a lower priority than with more intensive life support mods.

I still don't see why having to mount a crewless crew tank for resupply is a bad thing even real life resupply vessels are pressurized and carry life support hardware same as any craft humans are expected to step into for any period of time even if just for loading and unloading purposes.

As it is, however, for resupply plans I'm planning on using a Mk2 crew tank as a heavy Snacks and crew resupply shuttle, particularly for offworld base-orbit from a mining site; it's the lowest-profile (not sure about weight, though) solution for a Snacks resupply vessel of that size (4 pax = 800 Snacks). (For a lighter option, I have to go to US' Snack wedges for a 1.25m solution (44 Snacks @ wedge x 4 wedges = 176 Snacks for a Cygnus-type resupply).

this is probably why I frown on dedicated snack tanks more than any other reason. Compared to using a crew can they are the always the most mass efficient option which undermines the mod's ballance. Compared to other life supports mods the resource used is very very light in fact it's now completely massless. Part of the reason for this is because it was balanced to use extra crew cans (an already rather heavy part) as its storage part. mods that add snack tanks think since they have no crew capacity they can shave some dry mass off but really they are undermining the reason that there is no snack tanks and that is to force you to give your craft living space otherwise you can just cram your kerbal in a tiny mk1 landercan and keep him alive and happy for years with a cabinet packed solid with snacks which is something this mod tries to avoid.

This isn't intended to be pressure on tgruetzm to add parts to the mod. (a) I like that he didn't, for simplicity and RAM purposes (though I'll just have to wrap my head around how inorganic Ore gets turned to edible yummies by the magic of science Mobile Processing! Or perhaps there are some things living in the regolith that are best not thought about ). ( Like earlier mentioned, other mods can handle the load, and provide options. Different solutions end up leading to different aesthetics (and launch loads), though, but it ultimately boils down to the challenge of design. And I do like how Snacks, even on its own, makes me think.

As I understand it he isn't done with modding how mobile processing works but that he is aiming a leaving the impression that snacks are grown and harvested like crops in that case it would be implied that ore is processed for volatiles to make simple chemical fertilizer to feed the snack plants

Speaking of crew tanks, and forgive me for going on another topic, but I noticed on my install that the Mk3 passenger modules don't carry any snacks. Was this the intended behavior (after all, at 16 passengers, that's a LOT of snacks! )?

I found the answer. The snack adding MM patch only counts up to 10 since the mk3 cabin holds more it is skipped. this is likely an oversight and is easily corrected.

[mitko]

From Whyren's parts I have only used his greenhouses since until 3.5 there wasn't a way to produce snacks off-Kerbin, and after a while it gets tedious running resupply ships to Jool or Duna. AS for the Mk3 passenger module, like passinglurker said it's an oversight that is easily fixed - either use shaw's patch instead the one that comes with the mod or open the file patch.cfg in the snack folder and ad this

@PART

[*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[16]]

{

RESOURCE

{

name= Snacks

amount = 3200

maxAmount = 3200

}

}

[mbartelsm]

Would you mind adding this mod to CKAN?

[Miravlix]

Best Concept For a KSP Mod Ever. B.C.F.K.M.E. Okay, not the best ever acronym, not going to reuse that one.

While trying out RemoteTech, I noticed that what breaks the mod is that you can always just stick a Kerbal Pod on a rocket and RT is pointless, even with snacks installed.

While hyper realism, like RT, is overdoing it, it does point out that the balance between manned and unmanned, in the stock game, could use a tweak.

Maybe you could use the Tech Tree to upgrade snack capacity, so Kerbals can stay in space longer and longer in the same Pods.

Another idea is snack cost, so in the early game you may only want 1-3 snacks in the pod, because bringing 50 would cost a Kerbalion. Though I'm worried it would simply make it annoying to constantly having to adjust snack capacity on every rocket.

[nalfz]

There wouldn't be a way to make the kerbals do a little grumpy face when they run out of snacks would there? IMO that would take this mode right up to a 10/10

[Kesselya]

I just went from 69% Reputation down to 4% because of starving Kerbals I accepted a rescue contract for a Kerbal in orbit around Minmus and one in orbit around the Kerbin (crazy eccentric orbit too). I went out to do them both at the same time, heading to Minmus first. It took 13 days to arrive at Minmus, in that time, my two Kerbals stranded in their hulks just starved to reputation death.

How is anyone else handling this? I ended up reloading and then editing the save file to give those Kerbals some snacks to buy me some time to get to them.