Nertea

[1.6.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (January 21, 2019)

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Has anyone got these parts to work in FAR? I ask because when I run the aero analysis in game with far these part give me very strange graphs. Now im not the best plane builder so it may be how i was designing the plane, but it looked like the parts have exponential lift. what i mean was the lift portion of the lift portion of the graph would increase without stopping as far as i could tell. Is this intended behavior? Just went in again after checking that the MM patch was working. I also have the older cockpit without intakes so it's not that. Should I talk to ferram about this?

EDIT

More testing seems to indicate that it is only the cockpit affected. As when i remove that part and have other mk4 part the graphs appear much more normal. Something with that part is giving exponential lift...

EDIT2

I can get pictures too if needed. I also checked my craft file and can upload as well. There is no sign of the lift module that is intended and is indeed remove when FAR is present and no intake on the cockpit confirming i have the older config/model 1.1.0

Pics

Edited by Svm420

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Has anyone got these parts to work in FAR? I ask because when I run the aero analysis in game with far these part give me very strange graphs. Now im not the best plane builder so it may be how i was designing the plane, but it looked like the parts have exponential lift. what i mean was the lift portion of the lift portion of the graph would increase without stopping as far as i could tell. Is this intended behavior? Just went in again after checking that the MM patch was working. I also have the older cockpit without intakes so it's not that. Should I talk to ferram about this?

EDIT

More testing seems to indicate that it is only the cockpit affected. As when i remove that part and have other mk4 part the graphs appear much more normal. Something with that part is giving exponential lift...

EDIT2

I can get pictures too if needed. I also checked my craft file and can upload as well. There is no sign of the lift module that is intended and is indeed remove when FAR is present and no intake on the cockpit confirming i have the older config/model 1.1.0

Pics

That may have something to do with the intakes on the cockpit. KSP doesnt see those two small intakes as two small intakes, it sees the cockpit as one humongous intake. That tends to cause problems, even under stock aero.

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It can't be that though. I was using the 1.1.0 release that was before the intakes. If it is the one with the intakes in the photo it was a later test. Really want to use these parts but currently they are just wasting my ram. Hope this can be remedied.

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It can't be that though. I was using the 1.1.0 release that was before the intakes. If it is the one with the intakes in the photo it was a later test. Really want to use these parts but currently they are just wasting my ram. Hope this can be remedied.

I dont know FAR configuration but I'd suggest getting someone who does to verify the patch in the download is applying the correct values.

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I see. Well I'll provide a 2.5m adapter at least... you can work from that :P.

but a tri-adapter with two extra slots for jets or OMS and "shoulders" would be really cool, especially with SSME :P

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I revised the cross section further and I think I'm happy with it. I put it ingame to check.

Here we are compared with the Mk3 (much wider, but not as tall) and with 1.25/2.5m parts. Opinions still welcome.

mk4revamp2.png

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I like the look of the new parts. Can I make a suggestion, though? When you finalize your designs, can you include an adapter part that would allow seamless(ish) tweakscaling? For example, let's say you make an adapter for the Mk3 cross-section to Mk4 - if at the same time it would somehow be relatively easy to extend the adapter so it goes from Mk3 to 1.5x-scaled Mk4, then you'd essentially have a 2.5m and 3.75m spaceplane system in one. There would probably have to be a Mk4 cockpit to larger-Mk4-fuselage adapter too, etc. etc.

Having just a few Mk4-Mk4 adapters to allow tweakscaling would (just IMO) very greatly increase versatility.

May not be many people who feel that way, though, and since I know nothing about 3d modeling, I don't know how easy or difficult it actually would be to fiddle with adapter cross-sections to produce appropriate pieces... Nor do I exactly know what that would look like an whether it would look funky in the end. Just two cents to consider.

One possibly crazy idea would be to somehow replicate what was done with a couple of the MRS/SpaceY adapters, where one part can serve for multiple sizes/ratios.

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I revised the cross section further and I think I'm happy with it. I put it ingame to check.

Here we are compared with the Mk3 (much wider, but not as tall) and with 1.25/2.5m parts. Opinions still welcome.

http://www.areadenialgames.com/ksp/mk4revamp2.png

Looks good! Did you see the information I posted regarding your cockpit with FAR a few pages ago?

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I like the look of the new parts. Can I make a suggestion, though? When you finalize your designs, can you include an adapter part that would allow seamless(ish) tweakscaling? For example, let's say you make an adapter for the Mk3 cross-section to Mk4 - if at the same time it would somehow be relatively easy to extend the adapter so it goes from Mk3 to 1.5x-scaled Mk4, then you'd essentially have a 2.5m and 3.75m spaceplane system in one. There would probably have to be a Mk4 cockpit to larger-Mk4-fuselage adapter too, etc. etc.

Having just a few Mk4-Mk4 adapters to allow tweakscaling would (just IMO) very greatly increase versatility.

May not be many people who feel that way, though, and since I know nothing about 3d modeling, I don't know how easy or difficult it actually would be to fiddle with adapter cross-sections to produce appropriate pieces... Nor do I exactly know what that would look like an whether it would look funky in the end. Just two cents to consider.

One possibly crazy idea would be to somehow replicate what was done with a couple of the MRS/SpaceY adapters, where one part can serve for multiple sizes/ratios.

Oh dear. Nah. Tweakscale is something I include primarily because it was requested and it wasn't much work. I don't personally use TweakScale and its use makes me wince generally. It'd be quite a lot of work to add all these combinations of adapters, it's not like they're just cones and stuff, I would need to make them blend nicely which adds a lot of time to the modeling/unwrapping budget and uses up a bunch more texture space.

Looks good! Did you see the information I posted regarding your cockpit with FAR a few pages ago?

I did, but I can't help anymore than the other users that posted possible fixes

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Oh dear. Nah. Tweakscale is something I include primarily because it was requested and it wasn't much work. I don't personally use TweakScale and its use makes me wince generally. It'd be quite a lot of work to add all these combinations of adapters, it's not like they're just cones and stuff, I would need to make them blend nicely which adds a lot of time to the modeling/unwrapping budget and uses up a bunch more texture space.

Fair enough, but wouldn't there only be one adapter required? a Mk4 to Mk4 adapter? Cockpit -> Mk4 normal to Mk4 1.5 adapter -> all the other parts are just scaled up? I'm probably just not remembering a few parts here that wouldn't fit anymore.

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The mod is great but I have noticed a wierd behaviour.

If I am using an MK4 plane the terminal velocity is more than doubled, at sea level it's above 300m/s with respect to other planes.

If I am mixing mk4 and mk2/mk1 it's at normal-ish levels.

I have the issue with stock drag fix mod and without

That means that the plane can accellerate a lot more than the others and have troubles breaking.

Edited by oktav

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I revised the cross section further and I think I'm happy with it. I put it ingame to check.

Here we are compared with the Mk3 (much wider, but not as tall) and with 1.25/2.5m parts. Opinions still welcome.

http://www.areadenialgames.com/ksp/mk4revamp2.png

That is looking pretty good to me, Nertea! I like that it now has a separate niche of wide-load (plenty of room for extra surface-mounted bits on the sides of a 2.5m fuselage) or rover deployment with that flat bottom and the tail ramp, making it nicely distinct from the stock Mk3, which is a bit more of a snug fit on 2.5m cargo and can't really do rovers (outside of maybe dropping them from an inverted cargo bay).

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Hello all, specially Nertea, and thanks for these epic parts!

Although I find them extemely light for their size, either that or they have insane lift! I'm able to pull a huge behemot made with these with only 4 basic jet engines in far with a couple big wings from LLL (which have very little lift themselves, for their size). Is it intended to be this way? If it is, then no problem, but just wanted to let you know these parts are a bit too easy to make fly o.o

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Hello all, specially Nertea, and thanks for these epic parts!

Although I find them extemely light for their size, either that or they have insane lift! I'm able to pull a huge behemot made with these with only 4 basic jet engines in far with a couple big wings from LLL (which have very little lift themselves, for their size). Is it intended to be this way? If it is, then no problem, but just wanted to let you know these parts are a bit too easy to make fly o.o

Body lift is calculated procedurally in FAR, so it doesn't depend on the part parameters at all (other than the shape of the model). Body lift is pretty small at low mach numbers anyway. Is your craft composed of fuel tanks or cargo bays? If it's just cargo bays (with no payload) then it should be pretty easy to lift because it's just a hollow structure.

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Part of it is cargo bays. The thing is, with just two tank pieces it is somewhat possible to attain orbit with few engines. I guess that's a good thing, cuz you can lift huge payloads to orbit this way. It's not a complain, just a mere observation in case it wasn't intended to be so fly-happy :P

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