PB666

Yeah but how sure are you of this? So you believe in the pilot-wave theory of determinism or do you have some alternative deterministic model? See there are always questions.

Planet McPlanetFace

Ah yes, voyager will travel for millions of years before it encounters anywhere near close to habitable space, by then it systems will be dead it will have accumulated space ice, been hit by space objects, little space-r-roids, so that would hardly matter anyway. Aside from the natural unintelligability of the signal, see my thread on gaming aliens. Is it in any alien best interest to 'reach out and touch' some other alien species, other than the occasional 'oh explicative we just killed ourselves, here fellow aliens of the universe, don't do "[silence, followed by a blip in the LIGO experiment].

I wish people would use the search function before they posted.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1604.07687

Science is about questions not answers. In the incompleteness of answers paradoxes arise, its sometimes a good idea to be the devil's advocate in order to force the more likely theory to come up with irrefutable proof and to close up on its holes. Intuitively I think that the quantum state is determined at its formation or pairs (deterministic) but then I also believe the universe is fundementally non-deterministic, consequently either one or the other is wrong. My belief in a probability distribution on the set of outcomes at the quantum level supersedes my belief in bell's inequity. The reason for this that even on the large scale such distributions are rather characteristic of our world. However determinism may only exist at some unknown boundary at some rational translation of quantum space-time, the problem is that we have no measures of quantum space-time, we have no verification, it is also a question. We perceive the quantum mechanical world to be different from our own. For example, it is not possible in the classical world to go back in time or for a particle to be in two places at once, or for superposition of particles. But then if we try to rationalize statistics based upon distribution we frequently find that are rationalization of the distribution is imperfect (Black-swan theories). With a classical view we tend to see the center of the distribution not the distribution itself, we tend to calculate the distribution based on observations of the center and the areas of maximum likelihood, which in the rest of science has generally produced errors and exceptions.

Here we go again, there are several threads already on this matter.

It is possible if time like curves never circle back on themselves. Think about it, case 1 I want to communicate with you, I set the state, you then read at some previous point in time, but if you read at some previous point in time, you would have set the state. So either the states are predetermined and neither can set the state, or the time-like curves can never circle back on themselves. Again, I put this to a vote a while back and no-one chose deterministic universe. Would some of you like to rethink your ideals of the universe? This view is deterministic, in other words the semi-state that Bob reads or Alice reads is determined by the QM event that created the pair, and thus Einsteins spooky action at a distance is a fallacy. At fine inspection there are all kinds of problems in the standard model based on QM, not saying anything new, all the connotations have yet to be resolved, that is why people are studying quantum entanglement of particles and states. This is my view.

Be lucky if there is morse code.

Heh-heh, but of course you are, all communication would have to be preplanned, again the is no certainty that it will work.

Banned for not accepting your fate.

Suspicious

Your message makes no sense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/science/stratolaunchs-gargantuan-flying-launchpad-edges-toward-the-skies.html?partner=IFTTT&_r=2

Right, but how do we test star systems for intelligence, listen or probe? Right now our strategy is to send out 100 probes at 0.1c, if it works and you did this once a year, if aliens were doing the same the probes would pass through a pre-explored system and never see each other. The only reason there might be a encounter if a probe malfunctioned and coincidenrally sent its signal in the direction of the other space probes. In terms of listening, what if the aliens are not talking. So we are left with aliens being in a system and we don't know they are there.....we send out probes and detect them, do we try to talk to them via our probes, or do we avoid them. But there is also a chanc we don't detect them; a very rare chance encounter that will happen if we move out of this system. How do we respond tonthe obvious precense of some other sentient in contested territory. Eventually we will be those aliens, with any hope. And then we have to make the decision how do we respond to a colonization in a system we think is under our SOI or some attempt to communicate with us. My opinion is that we don't talk, we avoid, passive observation, they would do the same. If the are more advanced they would learn more about us than we about them.

Banned for being banned by me.

-78 (-)

Is there anyone else that has a stategy for exploration contact other than ? 1. Try to shag the first alien we see without investigating their potency. 2. create excuse why we would prosper after a losing encounter with a superior sentient force?

Not even sure what blue origins market is other than people who want to spend a minute floating.

It think its rather obvious that the heat warped the structural and it crumpled over, given that rocket was upright for a considerable period and burning.

-76 (-)

A smarter dog is called a wolf.

Banned for not being able to count to 4. length of "3236" is 4 not three.

misidentifying a protein, cheater.

Well second ship, the Network allows you to behave as you naturally would before first contact, after this they would take appropriate action against further ship. It is true the aggresor race would eventually figure out they wer subsequently being sabatoged, but then by that time patrol ships from every part of the network would have high powered space telescopes and patrol ships patriolling, and the politicians would be crying blood trying tobfigure out why your reformed gestures of good intentions were not getting a reponse. After studying you race for a very long period of time they would eventually send a holograph, much like the defense system around magrathea, to inform you of your violation and consequences. Future attempts to leave the system would catch a warning message followed by disabling of the ship propulsion system. Space is big and empty and lots of places for drones to hide. But they would seek some type of atonement, such as the proposition that allowed them to place an observatory colony in your system, such as on you moon as to keep eyes on what you are doing, and youbwould be on probation, limited to probes and colonization of faint dwarfs and brown dwarves that are considered to have in adequate resources for you to venture further. In addition they would avoid direct contact with you, but would have thoroughly sample human DNA from the ships they disabled that went dark. Careful, beaurocratic and methodical, like the Vogons, but at least your probation does not require the reading of poetry. Bloodthirsty revengeful would be the sinple destruction of all anthropoids allowing for some other sentient to evolve. The universe is big, the loss of one sentient is harmful, but tolerable within the network as long as it keeps expanding. True. But now they are tapping into your networks and history and looking at violent historic episodes, for example people who say the united nations is bad even though it has helped prevent thevtypes on conflict seen during a long period prior. What they realize that when pushed the population realizes their folly, but in a couple of generations they forget, noting that the default nature is that of eight year old boys. Observing the attack on pearl harbor and the second Iraq war and noting what you did to their colony they realize that you frequently attack out of ignorance, a definite drawback for being an interstellar sentient. They would also note the enduring religious conflicts based on their point of view false gods. From there they would decide that you need more evolution to become stable and so they simply isolate you as you work these violent issues out for yourselves. So by attacking them first and not trying to negotiate or place the olive branch forst you opened yor past behaviors to closer inspection. Btw, you ignore the possibilty that their perception of their own social evolution is as violent as ours, if it was not they might consider your sentient aboriginal, either out of their ignorance of you or their own past. How long has it taken to restore aboriginal rights on Earth? Oh they would study the issue first, for great certainty send out probes, that is the reason that in stealth, in the beggining of the isolation they would ever-so- slightly interfere with your space missions, making them fail by the smallest of margins, knowing that you are largely ignorant of the perils of deep space exploration, you would be confused for some time. If they found iit to be true that you we a member of a confederation, they would start building up defenses and making sure that there was little exploration of stars systems in a neutral zone were each side only had probes. If you came from a network that later they found a non-hostile situation, then they would send an ambassador to the interested third party and see if it could be worked out peacefully for the greater good. The acts they take against you would be stealthy and plausibly deniable to your network. There is no 'No answer' , just more or less productive answers. There is a risk that a negative behavior results in you extinction, and the is a risk that your positive behavior also. One way to minimize either is to avoid contact until it cannot be avoided any longer. Earth is a tiny isolated blue marble isn't it; how difficult would it be for them to say increase the rate of melting every season in antarctic by 10 fold or even 10%. Of course with global warming a comet redirect mission for several very large comets loaded with CO2. In addition. Without even destroying earth, you put the population in utter chaos relatively easily. Why put your pouplation at risk with each alien encounter, it is better to grow colonies and not encounter at the risk of losing a colony prospect every now and then tonstart blasting at competitors out of ignorance. The could redirect heavy elements from deep space into the dark side of the sun that increase output by even 10%, not for long, say for just a few thousand years. Things like pufying dueterium litium from hydrogen in comets and then zeroing out their velocity relative tonthe sun at say neptunes orbit. At L1 they could have a fresnel fabric that redirects sunlight from just outside earth-sun line sight into the atmosphere, just 10% more.