Cetera

I think I'm beginning to understand. So would my config file linked above have worked if I had put it in a ZCetera folder? 'Cause the only thing that config ever did was assign suit folders to class. Nothing else in it ever worked for me, and I wasn't sure if I had naming conventions incorrect, or if I didn't have the proper nodes, or something.

One thing I was having issues with when writing my config file (and seriously, I have such limited knowledge of how MM actually works I am probably doing something wrong -- half of my current config was written by someone else months ago as an example to show me what I'm doing): If I named my Mod "CeteraSuits" in the config file, instead of "TexutreReplacerReplaced" nothing I put in the config ever worked. If instead the first line was "TextureReplacerReplaced" then it worked. Is this part of what you're talking about?

Very nice work, @HaArLiNsH. I'm glad you're understanding my dilemma now. I'm not savvy enough to be able to communicate it fully, I think, and have too little experience knowing for certain which item is working or not and which variable is the root cause. I'm glad you've got it sorted, and I look forward to future releases with the highest quality possible for TRR textures!

No worries, make haste slowly. I spent a lot of time messing with it last night, letting other things drop. I won't have much more time to tinker this week.

@HaArLiNsH I'm not sure what the difference is then. Maybe it is the flag in the config turning compression off? I am pretty sure I had it set before, but there's always the possibility that my config was no good. I'm not terribly good at writing them. However, to illustrate the quality differences, here is my level 5 veteran pilot suit, first with using the DDS file as converted by by the nVidia DDS Converter 1.4, and then using PNG unconverted. nVidia DDS Converter 1.4: PNG unconverted: That is a huge difference in quality, and why I've been so grumpy with the DDS files. There are still some minor compression artifacts in whatever conversion is done loading the PNG files, but it is very minor. Everything is clearer and cleaner. Detail differences are wildly apparent on the helmet, but also on the jetpack too. At this point, with that level of quality difference, there's absolutely no way I'll be releasing my suit pack with DDS files, unless someone else wants to convert them for me and can achieve the level of quality that occurs when using PNG. The difference is too much. The DDS textures look like crap in-game.

OK, need a rewrite of my config by someone who knows what the heck they are doing. I'm having no success. I've had help in the past, but I've clearly messed something up, and no suits are being assigned by class currently. Here's my config: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gtua0c1b9lozlg/CeteraSuits.cfg?dl=0 I want all EvaSpace suits to be used for EvaGround suits. I have folders set up for each class. I have Space and Ground visor textures, and have specified visor base color and reflection colors specified in the config too. I want them all the same, so if there is a way to do it universally rather than by each suit folder, that'd be good.

Interesting. The icon files as .DDS file types didn't work. Putting in .PNG has them coming through just fine. Did I do something wrong in the DDS conversion (not the first time) or should they always be .png?

Mwuahahahahahahahahaha! I say again: Mwuahahahahahahahahaha! Sometime between the most recent build, and the last build I fully tested in TRR, the auto-conversion from PNG to DDS got a LOT improved. I can release my suit pack in PNG, let the game convert them when it loads, and get a much, much better conversion than me mucking about with these standalone tools. It looks a lot like this one, honestly: I'll take it. I have a folder of 221 PNG files that I have to manually flip right-side-up again, but they are named properly. (Yes, I know, stupid for me to save over the ones I flipped! I have the originals still, but they aren't named properly for TRR, and I think it's faster for me to re-flip than to rename.)

Which suit number corresponds to which suit state? Maybe that's a better question, and one I haven't grokked from the documentation. NVM, it is in the config. I was was right the first time... I'm just a little slow! // 0 = IVA, // 1 = EVA GROUND, // 2 = EVA SPACE

LOL, good work testing though! Oh well. One more time, 'cause I'm a slow learner. What config option do I need to have in my config file to make TRR use the EVA Space textures for the EVA Surface? Oh, dang, do the Normal Maps need to be clamped too when converting to DDS? I forgot to ask.

You can turn off the anti-aliasing-style color conversion in Paint.Net if you don't like it, or it is messing things up. Regardless, that isn't the issue. It doesn't matter whether the textures are DXT1 or DXT5, without any blended colors, on any line that isn't perfectly vertical or horizontal, you get compression artifacts moving to a DDS texture type. You can see the examples above. The test image was made in about 30 seconds using Paint.Net, and as you can see, there are no color gradients in it. Further, my point remains that Paint.Net won't clamp DDS texture files, so they are useless with any kind of directional lighting, if that is what is truly causing it. I haven't done my new conversion yet to test my next iteration, but I'm confident they'll work this time.

Well, I just created my textures in Paint.Net, and then flipped and saved as dxt5, but I get the lighting errors on the textures (screenshots here). @HaArLiNsH believes it to be a CLAMP issue with the DDS export, which Paint.Net does not have an option for.

I tried doing that this weekend, redoing just one start by hand, and was still getting the compression artifacts. That's why I posted the test file above with a very crappy star, but it was a new file guaranteed to not have any other issues, and guaranteed to be only three colors (gray, black, and dark red). It had issues all over the place, which is why I gave up. From looking at your post above, it looks like this is just a limitation we have to deal with when using DDS in the current KSP engine. Nothing for it, just have to wait for something better.

That actually looks the best out of all of them. I don't have access to photoshop, though. How long did it take to convert that file? How long would it take to convert 221 files? Does it also clamp the DDS file?

Yeah, still lots of little compression artifacts along all the non-horizontal lines. I just don't think there's any way around it. DDS is just too lossy of a compression algorithm to worry about it too much. Just for fun, if you're up for it, try converting this one in GIMP: It would be helpful if you can post the output DDS file in dropbox or something so we can zoom in on the stars and emblem, as they have the finer detail and seem to have most of the issues.

I spent a good portion of today futzing with my textures, and trying to decrease the amount of compression artifacts that occur when converting to DDS files. I think there is a fundamental limitation in quality with DDS (or at least the DDS conversion tools) that is simply unavoidable. I had no luck, and finally whipped up a very simple test image to test the conversion process. The test image has absolutely no aliasing or smoothing of lines at all, and contains exactly three colors. The black lines are all one pixel in width. Test image: DDS conversion of test image: As you can see, there are compression artifacts all over the damn place. Paint.Net doesn't leave such marked compression artifacts, but it has no ability to force CLAMP as an option during the DDS conversion process, so I'm giving up. I'm just going to finish my suit pack, and let the damn compression issue be. If anyone knows of a better way to do the conversion from .png to .dds and make them all work, I'm happy to upload all my templates and materials and let someone else fix and even take over my pack. In the meantime, work continues. I just have to rename and reconvert all my original PNG files, which isn't difficult, but does take a little bit of time. Then I need to make sure the lighting issue is actually corrected, and at that point I can, if all goes well, get an initial upload for anyone who want to test, with a full release shortly thereafter. I would hope I can have this all done by the end of the week, but I make no promises. I anticipated having this pack ready to release a couple of weeks ago, and that clearly didn't happen, and unfortunately I have too many real life obligations to cover.

@HaArLiNsH thanks, that's a lot for me to wade through. I somehow missed the new config file in the updated mod, and was working off my MM patch from version .4, I think. I'll see if I can get that functional again. I may need some additional assistance with the TRR menu, or some additional documentation. I can see the previews of the suits, but not how to select which one for which level. Regarding the DDS conversions, egads. Paint.Net doesn't seem to have a Clamp option, so that means I'm going to have to use a different too. You mentioned you had a way to convert with better quality. Do you mind sharing that? It looks like my pack is a bit further behind than I thought. I renamed every file after I converted to DDS, so I have a lot of make-work to do one of these days, lol.

I'm having issues with my module manager patch to change the icons and colors in coordination with my suit pack. When I use the MM patch, I inevitably get a blank black square in-game wherever the icons are supposed to appear. However, if I overwrite my icons over the default icons, and then update the CTI config to correspond with the colors I'm using, everything seems to work fine. Can you see any issues with the MM patch I'm using? // Modifying existing config node named CommunityTraitIcons // :NEEDS is there to stop an error in the log if CTI is not installed // :AFTER will make sure the patch's changes occur after CTI has set up the node // if there are multiple mods all using the same :AFTER clause then they will be // applied in alphabetic order with last one winning @CommunityTraitIcons:NEEDS[CommunityTraitIcons]:AFTER[CommunityTraitIcons] { //--- Stock -------------------------------------------------------------------- @Trait[Pilot] // edit the node "Trait" with content "name = Pilot" { @color = 0.588235294,0.070588235,0.031372549,1 // modify color value with new value @icon = Cetera/Icons/pilotIcon // modify path to icon with new path } @Trait[Engineer] { @color = 0.937254901,0.737254901,0.108392156,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/engineerIcon } @Trait[Scientist] { @color = 0.039215686,0.419607843,0.905882352,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/scientistIcon } //--- Colonists! --------------------------------------------------------------- // http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?showtopic=149488 @Trait[Colonist] { @color = 0.498039215,0.415686274,0,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/KolonistIcon } //--- Modular Kolonization System ---------------------------------------------- // http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?showtopic=154587 @Trait[Geologist] { @color = 0.972549019,0.560784313,0.607843137,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/GeologistIcon } @Trait[Miner] { @color = 0.231372549,0.231372549,0.231372549,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/MinerIcon } @Trait[Mechanic] { @color = 0.847058823,0.521568627,0.321568627,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/MechanicIcon } @Trait[Technician] { @color = 0.196078431,0.690196078,1,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/TechnicianIcon } @Trait[Biologist] { @color = 0.149019607,0.364705882,0.137254901,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/BiologistIcon } @Trait[Farmer] { @color = 0.886274509,0.690196078,0.541176470,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/FarmerIcon } @Trait[Medic] { @color = 1,0,0,1 } @Trait[Quartermaster] { @color = 0.129411764,0,0.498039215,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/QuarterIcon } @Trait[Kolonist] { @color = 0.498039215,0.415686274,0,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/KolonistIcon } @Trait[Scout] { @color = 0.568627450,0.317647058,0.858823529,1 @icon = Cetera/Icons/ScoutIcon } }

Huh, having an interesting issue with the helmet lighting too. It looks like the light map is applied backwards on the rear portion of the helmet when using my texture pack. It doesn't look like this is happening with the TRR Default textures. Also, do you know what might be causing the texture degradation on the emblem and stars? It is pretty apparent in-game. I tried my texture in 1.2.2 under the old TR, and it is there, but not quite as bad. In 1.2.2 TR it seems that if you zoom in closer, the detail level gets better, and further out it is using a lower-resolution texture. I'm guessing this is in the DDS compression using mipmaps, which I did save when I converted from .png files. I have disabled mipmaps in my TRR config. I'm not sure TRR is still making new mipmaps or not. It is easier to see in this shot: Here's a link to the helmet used in this shot, but they are all basically the same, and all having the same issue: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rp1blgv71sgmadt/Helmet_EvaSpace_Veteran_Male5.dds?dl=0

@HaArLiNsH OK, I have my suits in-game and working, and my module manager patch even seems to be assigning suits correctly! Woohoo! However, I'm still having some issues. I have IVA helmets and suits, and EVA Space suits, and an EVA visor. I do not intend on making an EVA Ground set of suits, and just want the Space to double for those. However, with the defaults included in TRR, only the defaults show when on ground, even when suits are selected properly by class. 1. Is there any way to ignore ground EVA suits via a MM config? 2. If not, is there any way to have EvaSpace and EvaGround pull from the same file, rather than me duplicating all textures again? 3. What is the "Exclusive" option in the TRR Suits Menu for? What does it do? When I select it, I'm not seeing any changes anywhere. 4. No matter the selections, even manually configuring in the TRR menu, there is a bug with texture selection for Female Badasses and JetPacks. EVA Space Jetpacks for Female Badasses are always selected to the TRR default. I can't test if it happens with Ground EVA Jetpacks, as I don't have a texture for that, and didn't muck about with it any further tonight. * * * I'm going to need some volunteers to test my suit pack, and make sure all is working well. I've done quite a bit of testing, but there's only so long one person can look at the same things over and over and actually notice details that aren't right. I see what I think should be there, regardless of whether it really is or not. Once my suit pack is 100% complete, then I'll create a separate thread for it on the forums, per HaArLiNsH's suggestion.

Question for you, @HaArLiNsH, regarding naming conventions and such: In the TRR_Guide file, I don't see anything breaking suits down by class. I'm presuming I still need a separate folder for that, correct? Each class gets a subfolder under the "Suits" folder, named whatever I want? Each class subfolder then needs, at a minimum, Helmet_EvaSpace_Standard_Male0, Helmet_Iva_Standard_Male0, Jetpack_EvaSpace_Standard_Male0, Suit_EvaSpace_Standard_Male0, and Suit_Iva_Standard_Male0 textures, correct? If there is no specified female texture, will female kerbals wear male suits for their proper level and situation? Also, are multiple suit packs compatible? If I make a config file listing my mod suit and default folders, and someone else has a suit pack doing the same thing, those are going to conflict, correct? If I include normal maps for each texture type in each class subfolder as per the above section of questions, then I don't need to worry about the defaults, correct? If I'm not using the default folder, do I need a normal map file for each level of texture? So if I have 5 Helmet_EvaSpace textures for a class, do I need 5 normal maps for it if they are all the same, or will it pull the 0 level normal map for each level of texture?

Awesome, @HaArLiNsH, on the new release. I'll have to get cracking again, and see what I need to do in order to finish updating my suits pack for TRR. This week is a bad week to start for me, though. I'll get there eventually, it is hoped!

Looking forward to it, thanks!

OK, all of my textures have been manually converted to DDS. Still need to do screenshots and more testing, and waiting on the final-ish product for naming conventions and config file building.

Question when it comes to normal maps: Is there anything in particular I need to do there? I've been puttering with different things, and made a new normal map for my helmets, just to test. However, it comes out a very purple color, when a lot of the other normal maps I've seen for KSP are pink, and somewhat transparent. Do I need to be doing something differently?