SlowThought

I've not yet met the kraken (that I know of). Nor did I do a reversion or load a save. I did note an odd error message on my terminal screen (I'm running Linux), so maybe it was a NRE. I had a similar case this morning... manned lift vehicle shuttling unmanned probe to orbit. Probe successfully released, but return resulted in catastrophic failure. Then, no probe. Does probe contain reference to original ship, and thus end up with a NRE when the ship is destroyed? It seems a shame that Bill should have sacrificed his life in vain.

So Bill ran out of go juice on the Mun, and called for a ride home. I duly built a rescue vehicle, launched it, got to the Mun, and no Bill, no dead vehicle. No, wait, Bill isn't even on the missing list. He's right back in the launch rotation. This is not the first time it's happened. Under what circumstances does the game harvest what it sees as "dead" missions? Is there any way to change this behaviour?

Nobody's poor with enough space tape

Although the Kercury Three resurrected as usual after their troubles on the Mun, they were changed. I guess death will do that to you. They didn't really interact with the other Kerbonauts, and hardly with each other. The boys at research sought a project suited to their new attitudes, and came up with the Fully Independent Deployable Observatory (FIDO). Infinite duration with solar panels, the ability to wander aimlessly, and room for one moody kerbonaut and his hangups. Hopefully the Three will bother to transmit their SCIENCE. Jeb apparently thought it was a good idea, for he took the test article off into the Kerbin wilderness with no apparent intent to return. Time to send Bill to the Mun. Oops, those damn turbines managed to take out two boosters during separation. At least the remaining engines are symmetrical. Let's hear it for excessive fuel reserves. Ok, let's hear it for sufficient fuel reserves. Oh well, the vehicle wasn't intended to return, anyway. At least Bill is bothering to phone home. Let's get Bob to Minmus. A little extra bracing for the turbines should fix the vibration problem... Yep, all four boosters intact. Which makes for an easy trip to Minmus. Bob certainly seems happy up there. And the SCIENCE starts to pour in! Of course "Fully Independent" assumes that you can keep at least one solar panel intact. Bill couldn't quite manage that, and now wants a ride home;.; Jeb's having the same problem, but he did manage to find something interesting. Bob's still got 3 panels intact, and we have netted lots of SCIENCE, so now we have nucs! Next time the Three get mopey, we can REALLY give them some serious alone time!

Chadful was having second thoughts as he waited atop Kicarus IV for launch. Three men dead, three good men. Who am I to the Kercury Three? How will I get back from the Mun when they couldn't? "Final sequence, Chadful. Ready?" Chadful hoped his nervousness wasn't evident. "Ready, control!" "Here we go... stabilizers on... stage initialized... turbines to speed... batteries to power... ready to move out... let go the clamps!" Well, I'm safely airborne. Of course, they all got this far. "Chadful, you're go for staging." "Roger, control. Throttling back turbines... seperati.... whoa!" Yet again, the turbojets foul the second stage and the craft tumbles as the rockets ignite. "Chadful, you ok? The telemetry is going crazy!" "Stand by, control." This is why they called it Kicarus. Not because we're flying too close to Kerbol, but because we keep trying stupid things. "I've got it under control... low orbit achieved." Damn damn that was close, and look at my inclination. Barely spaceborne and I have to use my fuel reserve to correct. Ok, now to plan the next burn. "Course plotted and laid in, Captain." "Who are you talking to, Chadful?" Did I say that out loud? "Never mind, control. Initiating next burn." "Good job, Chadful... maybe too good. Check your course." Damn, man! Good aim! Still, no way I'm landing without scouting the site first. There's more fuel reserve gone. As Chadful reflects on his fuel situation, he recalls the fate of Jeb and Bill, both of whom ran out of fuel before they could escape the Mun, both of whom crashed back into the Mun, and both of whom lost hundreds of points of Science! If not for Science, Jeb and Bob would be alive. If not for Science, Chadful could be safely back on Kerbin. I hate science. "Control, I see Bob's landing site. Pretty rugged terrain." "You're the man on the scene, Chadful. Pick your site as you see fit." Flat is good, I'm thinking. Poor Bob. He made it all the way home only to have his chute fail. Damn Mun. "Control, I've got my spot. I'm headed down." "Engine cutoff. I'm down, control." "Roger, transmit the ahem backup data, and then proceed with EVA." The in case I die data. "Headed out the door." Chadful takes his samples, takes his measurements, then takes a moment to enjoy the view. Flat doesn't make for much scenery, but it's a nice sky. "Ok, control, placing the flag and plaque." Now the hard part. Getting home. "Fuel transfer complete, control. Landing stage jettisoned. Ready for launch." "YAAAHOOOOO!" "Stop shouting into the mic, Chadful." "Sorry, control." Well I've made it further than Jeb and Bill. But what about Bob? What about the parachute? "Hi Mom! Can you see me waving?" I hope I don't splat, Mom. I hope the chute opens. The chute opened? The chute opened! "Ahem. Control, we have drogue deployment." Main chute! Main chute! Main chute! BE AH UUUTIFUL!! I've beaten the Mun, and I have brought back SCIENCE.

I wasn't going for this, but doesn't my Minmus probe remind you of a Dalek?

Will I keep stranding Kerbals in odd places? This truly was a spontaneous effort after screwing up a return from the Mun.

Yes yes yes pleaaase!

(International Rescue is a secret organisation established to save people who are in mortal danger) Jebediah: "KSC, Mission Omega Mun... I have succsessfully escaped the Mun's orbit." KSC: Good job, Jeb. Stand by for re-entry burn parameters. Jebediah: "Um... another burn? Won't I need fuel for that?" ... John Tracy: "Thunderbird Base, this is Thunderbird 5. Come in, Thunderbird Base." Jeff Tracy: Hello John, report. John: "Hello Father. I'm afraid KASA's done it again. One of their Kerbonauts has run out of fuel on his way back from the Mun. He's stranded in a more or less circular orbit over 7 million meters from home!" Jeff: Good work, John. Keep monitoring KASA frequencies. Alan, Brains, get up here! Alan Tracy: "Yes, Father. I'm on my way." Brains: "Yes, Sir, Mr. Tracy." Jeff: Alan, I have a mission for Thunderbird 3. Because it involves KASA personnel, who might be able to comprehend and steal our Thunderbird technology, I'm going to have Brains explain some special modifications for this mission. Brains: Ah, mmm, you will note the entirely seperate capsule for the Kerbonaut, isolating him from IR technology, and from seeing you, Alan. Note, also, all the extra handholds on the KASA rescue module. In my, umm experience, they will prove useful. Jeff: Right, thank you Brains. Any questions, Alan? Alan: No Father. There's no time to waste! Jeff: Right you are, Alan. Thunderbirds are GO! Alan: "Thunderbird Base, Thunderbird 3. Trajectory established toward Omega Mun. Three hours to Danger Zone." Jeff: God speed, Alan. Keep us informed. Thunderbird 5, come in! Hello John. John: "Hello Father. Thunderbird 5 standing by." Jeff: Is KASA aware of our intentions? Will their Kerbonaut be ready? John: "Yes, Father. The Kerbonaut is standing by to EVA from Omega Mun to Thunderbird 3." Jeff: Excellent work, John. Alan: "Thunderbird Base, I am entering Danger Zone. I see Omega Mun!" Jeff: Are you ready for transfer, Alan? Alan: "I've manuevered as close as I dare, Father. It's all up to KASA, now. Wait, I see something! Yes, the Kerbonaut is leaving his vehicle!" Alan: "He appears to be drifting off... No, he's ok, here he comes! He's grabbed on!" Alan: "He's getting onboard! We're almost ready to go!" Alan: "Beginning retro-burn. Thunderbird 3 is headed home!" Jeff: Great work, Alan! Alan: "The capsules have seperated, drogues are deployed. Tell Brains his staging strategy worked perfectly!" Jeff: Will do, Alan. You can tell him yourself, soon. Alan: "Errr, not so soon, Father, it seems that we're coming down in a remote and, ummm, moist location." Jeff: VIRGIL! Stand by to launch Thunderbird 2!

Welcome aboard, ryanita. Happy rocketeering.

It only took Jeb 3+ years to find a suitable window, but he's safely home on Kerbal. Visitors are NOT welcome. He's grown used to being alone.

Jebediah gazed in awe and fear at a sight he'd always wanted to see, but hadn't planned on seeing on this mission. "Damn that sticky key."

Jebediah Kerman after landing Eta 4 Bret: Hi, I'm Bret Kerman, and this is KNN. Our guest today is Kerbonaut Jebediah Kerman, safely returned from the Mun. Hello Jeb, welcome home. Jeb: Thank you, Bret, it's good to be here. Bret: Yours is a remarkable story. You land Munshot Eta 4 on the Mun, but are stranded. You mysteriously return to mount your own rescue mission in Munshot Theta, only to be stranded again. Then you WALK to the site of Eta 4, repair it, and safely fly home. Jeb: Well, I didn't walk the WHOLE way. I did use my jetpack for most of it. I have learned a few tricks of the trade, you know. Bret: And what has KASA learned from this whole series of events? Jeb: A few things, Bret. First off, the Eta lander was much more robust than expected. With proper fuel management, it can easily serve as KASA's primary landing vehicle. That means that the Theta launcher is probably a bit of overkill. That may get scaled down and tweaked a little bit for future missions. Bret: But wait, you glossed over your mysterious first return from the Mun, from the Eta 4 mission, without benefit of rocket. Jeb: What can I say, Bret? Space is a strange place.

Hello, this is Bret Kurman, and you're watching KNN. More news from KASA on the Theta Munar mission. Zeb Kurman has successfully landed on the Mun, touching down less than 8km from the Eta 4 site. Given the state of the Theta lander, it's a good thing Eta 4 is so close. Wait, I'm told we again have radio contact with Zeb. Can you hear me, Zeb? I hear you, Bret. Looks like I'm going for a little walk. Probably shouldn't have gone for the night landing. Well, live and learn, Zeb. Do you think Eta 4 can get you home? It depends on how much fuel is left. Worst case, I walk back like last time. As always, best of luck to you, Zeb. This is Bret Kerman, and you're watching KNN.

30k for peri was right on... Hit atmosphere at 3200 m/s and only peaked out at 2g. Then Bill tripped getting out of the capsule and died. They may be tough, but they're brittle!

Dateline: KSC, Cape Kerman KASA has just released this picture of the new Theta vehicle: KASA spokesman Kurt Kerman remarked that: "We are very happy to announce the imminent launch of Munshot Theta. I would like to point out that the speculation in the press that the liberal use of solid rocket boosters in the Theta vehicle has something to do with the presence of an SRB factory in Senator Kerman's home town is just that, speculation."

Exactly right on the original fuel plan. Thanks for the the tip about fuel transfer!

Dateline: KSC, Cape Kerman Kurt Kerman, KASA spokesman, made the following statement today: "We at KASA strongly deny accusations of incompetence that have recently appeared in the press. We are good stewards of the people's money in the pursuit of science. As proof, we present today our latest Munar lander:" "Note the incorporation of a larger fuel tank for the ascent stage, improving fuel margin and ensuring a return trip, of our new RCS system for better control during the landing phase, and extra landing legs for an extra springy touchdown. Of course, these improvements have driven up the mass of the lander, requiring the development of a new launch vehicle, which will be the Theta model in the Munshot series. In addition, to avoid tragedies like "Mild" Bill's, we are instituting a psychiatric research and screening program for future kerbonauts. If Congress will ony authorize a few more billion dollars, there is an excellent chance that Zebediah Kerman may eventually be recovered from the Mun."

Hello, this is Bret Kurman, and you're watching KNN. I have breaking news in the continuing Munshot crisis. Zeb Kurman has successfully landed on the Mun. That's right he has successfully landed, but if you look closely in the photo, you can see that the ascent engine, the rocket normally attached to the middle fuel tank, is missing. It was apparently lost in the crash, er landing. Zeb has no way of getting home. This is ironic because Zeb's original mission was to rescue Bill Kerman, as noted in my last story. Wait, wait, I'm told that we have a live radio link with Zeb on the Mun. Can you hear me, Zeb? I hear you, Bret. I'll tell you what's ironic. That I was sent up here to rescue somebody who's already dead, and now I need rescuing. Did I hear you correctly? "Mild" Bill is dead? That's right. They say it was a jetpack accident, but I think Bill just couldn't stand working for a nutty outfit like KASA anymore, and chose to go out creatively. I notice, Zeb, that you only have a one man capsule. Could it be that KASA knew Bill was dead before you left? Yeah, I guess. I suppose I should have noticed that before liftoff. Alright, thank you for talking to us Zeb, and the best of luck to you. There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Either a colossal government screwup, or a colossal government plot to justify further spending and risking more Kerbals' lives. Either way, we'll be here to bring you the story.

Dateline: KSC, Cape Kerman Kurt Kerman, KASA spokesman, made the following statement today: "Following the stranding of Bill Kerman on the Mun, we at KASA have been working day and night to research any flaws in the Munar Lander design, and to perfect Lander piloting procedures and techniques. We are confident that we are ready to return to the Mun. Munshot Eta 4 will depart shortly. Hold on, Bill. We're coming." KNN will of course cover the launch.

RCS on, jump, mash Shift and W, and away I go! Oops, the suit doesn't have the delta V -- up to 50,000m, and a grisly death. Nice view, though. "Mild" Bill joins the ranks of the heroic fallen.

... "Wild" Bill Kerman, who foolishly, err, fearlessly, attempted a Munar landing short of fuel, and died, ending Munshot Beta. ... Zeb Kerman, who fecklessly neglected his radar altimeter on final approach to the Mun, and died, ending Munshot Zeta. ... Zeb Kerman (his brother?), who recklessly attempted a visual approach to the Mun, and died, ending Munshot Eta 2. I, "Mild" Bill Kerman, dedicate Munshot Eta 3, the product of a week of ad hoc improvisation and the willingness to risk others' lives, to these brave pioneers. Without their sacrifice, my success would not be possible. Ummm, does anybody have any ideas on how to get home?

Is that why they're green? Because they're zombies?

Testing my lander. They really are tough little guys. The definition of insanity, etc etc

I bow to the voice of experience; I've not looked at what code is publicly available. IMHO, quaternions are easier to grok than vectors, at least in terms of how they represent the underlying physics (there are some that argue that vector calculus never would have been, but for the prejudice against the Irishman who discovered quaternions). As you note, they are very convenient for describing orientation (which what markjustmark appears to have been dealing with). FWIW, twenty-something years ago I derived a common expression for all the basic orbits (elliptical, parabolic, hyperbolic) from a complex representation of Newton's 3rd law. My students weren't impressed (ok, they were terrified). I wish I could find my notes. I have made feeble attempts to do the same starting with quaternions, but not gotten anywhere. Bottom line, markjustmark was looking at a quaternion. Quats versus vectors borders on the religious. I am one of the Devout Few of the Q, but I'm not very pious by nature