Wanderfound

Things to improve stability: * Increase the steer damping on the autopilot. * Reduce low-pressure DD settings on the elevators. * Shift the wings back a little. * Remove the anhedral from the canards. * Increase elevator AoA setting to (but not past) 100%. Thing to improve stability and eliminate the constant minor stall problem: * Remove the canards and crank up the elevator deflection to compensate. It's a definite contender; just a bit of fine tuning and it'll fly beautifully at all speeds. - - - Updated - - - Open Broadcaster System for recording, on a not-very-shiny old laptop (Dell Latitude E6320, Win7, 8GB RAM), and yes, the game crawls a bit while recording the fights. The videos are edited up in Videopad to 250% of the speed they were recorded at.

Current version of MiK-6: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mxvjnihkmhgoxb/Kerbodyne%20MiK-6A.craft?dl=0

Yup, got it. Out at a mate's birthday today, though, so it'll have to wait a bit. It looks impressive on a quick test fly, albeit a touch wobbly while subsonic.

Just for an idea of what it's taking to get these turning rates: The current version of the MiK-6 is built with the wings as far forwards as possible while keeping the stability numbers green. The leading edge slats are set at max deflection 40, -100% AoA and DD settings of 100% at all pressures (AoA response only, no control inputs). The elevators (pitch inputs) are set at 40 max deflection and +100% AoA, but with DD settings as low as 15% at 0kPa, working up in an exponential curve to 100% by 40kPa.

That download isn't set to be publicly accessible...

MiK-7 in the works...

Could use a bit more pitch authority at speed.

It's all in the Dynamic Deflection settings on your elevators. Try setting them to 25% at 0kPa, gradually winding up to 100% at 40kPa. - - - Updated - - - It doesn't have much of a chance against the turbojet fighters (they have missiles inbound while the basic jets are still in their takeoff climb), but I'll work up a Wheesley-only MiK for it to fight. - - - Updated - - - Executive decision: only one of each type of countermeasures per aircraft. It should make missiles a bit more of a threat without letting them dominate.

BTW, question for the crowd: what do y'all think of limiting it to no more than one chaff and flare dispenser per ship, in order to give the missiles a bit more of a chance? - - - Updated - - - Craft file?

Yeah, I didn't want to spoil the result until folks had a chance to watch the fights. It's very close, though; just removing some fuel from the Pidgey might be enough for it to retake the lead. To keep up with the MiK-6 and F-3C, you'll want 15+G while supersonic, good airbrakes and the ability to keep control while turning hard at the edge of stall speed. With close-matched ships, it often turns into a pistol-range dogfight at less than 100m/s.

The deciding round:

It's standard interplanetary spaceplane aerocapture technique. It's less "aerodynamically curve into orbit" and more "hold yourself down in the thick air until you've bled off enough speed", although that's ultimately much the same thing.

Round 2:

Close... MiK-6 craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/sf0jqwg7xzbkw3v/Kerbodyne%20MiK-6.craft?dl=0

Time to update to the K-18, then. Also: an entry doesn't have to win to be worthwhile. One-sided fights don't take long to record, and the more diversity of planes in the air the more fun it is for everyone. If people only submit what they think are guaranteed winners the thread will stall as soon as someone posts a really good design. Instead, it would be better if everyone would put up their current best design (whether they think it will win or not), and then update it whenever they significantly improve it. Keep the challengers coming, even if they're likely to end up as shrapnel. I can fly run-offs between the losers to create a ranking table.

Use as many airbrakes as you like. The restrictions are: * Stock + BD Armory parts only. * No torque wheels (including disabling cockpit torque). * Jet propulsion only; no rockets, no RCS, no Vernors. * Horizontal takeoff and landing capable; no VTOLs etc. * Maximum of six missiles. * Maximum of one each of chaff/flare dispensers. * Fixed-aim guns only (no unlocked turrets). * No excessive performance-enhancing clipping. Reasonable part clipping for aerodynamics or aesthetics is fine (e.g. burying ammo boxes inside an empty fuel tank), stacking five engines on a single node is not. On the autopilot, set max speed to 399m/s, minimum altitude to 1,410m and default altitude to 2,000m/s. Everything else is up to you. The mods in play can be seen at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/132274-FAR-Fighter-Challenge-BD-Armory-AI?p=2174355&viewfull=1#post2174355 - - - Updated - - - There are a few tricks: * Shift your wings backwards a bit to increase overall stability. * Use the AoA settings on pitch control surfaces to reduce the tendency to excess AoA. Use positive AoA on control surfaces behind CoM, negative AoA on control surfaces in front of CoM. * Use the Dynamic Deflection settings to reduce elevator input at low pressure. Hover the mouse over your elevators and hit K to bring up the menu. It'll need fine-tuning, but for starters try setting the DD authority to 50% at zero pressure and raising it by 10% for every 10kPa of pressure until it hits 100% at 50kPa. * Use leading-edge slats set for negative AoA to substantially increase possible pre-stall AoA. - - - Updated - - - Pull as hard as you can; it's primarily a contest of turning ability. Just make sure you test it first to see if those 15Gs will tear your wings off when pulling out of a dive at low altitude and 400m/s. - - - Updated - - - 1: The contest is ongoing; the current defending champ is Phearlock's F-3C Pidgey. 2: Not sure what you're asking. If you're referring to the Stock Bug Fix mod, that was removed from play as a possible culprit in the inconsistent aerodynamics issue that caused trouble earlier. 2b: 'Fraid not. See above; we're keeping the mods as minimal as possible to avoid CPU-strain and inconsistent aero problems. If you have a look at the posted videos, you'll see an assortment of landing gear setups that work. Keep in mind that it's a turning rather than top speed contest, so a bit of extra drag from tall landing gear doesn't really hurt your chances.

Kerbpaint: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50008-0-23-KerbPaint-Paint-layering-for-parts-(September-23rd)-(Same-Old-Still-Works!)/page52?p=1920604#post1920604

MiK-6 in development...

Well, post the .craft file and we'll see. -- I had a version of the MiK-4 that was matching the F-3C for turning performance, but it had some hard-to-fix surging problems that were leading to fuselage failures during dive pull-outs. Still working on it...

Finally got a MiK-4 working well enough for a fight vs the F-3C under the new FAR: I think that was one-sided enough that we can call the winner the current champion.

In the interests of eliminating variables, I've created a new KSP install and stripped the modlist down to the minimum needed to video the fights: The mods are all freshly downloaded just now, and all general settings are left at default. If folks use something similar while they're flight-testing, hopefully we should be able to get consistent performance. - - - Updated - - - Just tested the new install, and yes, the MiK-4 is overcontrolling. Looks like the weirdness was on my end; no idea what the issue was (maybe my overall Dynamic Deflection settings had been bumped off default?). Anyway, hopefully sorted now. Assuming that things are finally as they should be: did you want me to run the F-3C against whatever I come up with after I get the MiK-4 tuned back into shape, or would you like to revise it first? The one place where the F-3C is at a definite disadvantage is in fuel capacity; those twin engines limit you to not much more than 10 minutes of airtime.

Just had a test with an updated FAR; as far as I can tell, the MiK is flying the same as before. Did you have Dynamic Deflection installed on your test?

F-3C vs MiK-4 testflight; very close, with a fair amount of luck involved on both sides. I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome going the same way in a rematch. Good fight, though: - - - Updated - - - My last FAR update was a couple of weeks ago; I'll grab the new version today. I'm happy to go with a "cockpit torque must be disabled" rule; I'll update the OP accordingly, along with a "compulsory 399m/s max speed" requirement.