SkyRex94

Oh cool chart, didn't seen that, looks nice, but apparently its wrong. It would say for Jools SOI a Total of 16xxx Science Points which is far too low. In preparation of my Jool 5 Mission i calculated the Jool SOI theoretical Science Max at around 25080 Points(without recovry) , and i even reached 25031.7 Points in the Mission itself. i will look into it, maybe the multipliers are wrong, but the Science values of that chart are waaaay too low.

Has anybody ever calculated or know how much Science you could get in Total if you're playing with Stock planets and science Systems? Excluding Contract-Science and recovery Science. guestimating it should lay between 70000 and 100000 Science Points, but i'm not quite shure how much Science you can get inside of Kerbins SOI ? Anybody know that or know the total number? (not exactly, but + - 5000 accurancy) EDIT: After mhoram pointed me to the chart made by Timbo, i looked where the mistakes were, because the number was way too low. I found out half of the multipliers were totally wrong, and the Experiments had to be set to 'maximum value' instead of 'base value' (all numbers from the wiki). Also i calculated the 'splashed down' values (they have different multipliers) for Kerbin, Eve and Laythe and added them to the total value. And with that changes the table stated 25080 for Jools SOI which was exactly the same number i calculated per hand in my Jool 5 Preparation and which is close to my practical achieved number during actual 'doing' of my Jool 5 Mission. After that i believed the modified chart. Question answered. But i also want to share my results with you: THE AVAILABLE STOCK SCIENCE ALL BODIES WITH ALL EXPERIMENTS : 73255 Science Points (theoretical maximum) excluding: Recovery Science, Asteroid Science and Contract Science So counting the 'Explore ...' Contracts and the Recoveries roughly in you can get around 75000 Science Points in Stock KSP plus an infinite amount of more Science through Contracts and Asteroids! Side Results: Most profitable Celestial Bodies: The Mun : 11688 , Minmus: 9086 , Laythe: 8040 , Eve: 5002 , Eeloo: 4266 Least profitable Bodies: The Sun : 1848 , Kerbin : 2305 , Ike and Dres: both 2376 , Gilly : 2694 (Attention: Kerbins Number includes things like 'splashed down in mountains' , i know there are some biomes with water, but i don't know if them all have water somewhere, but Kerbin is second to last in any way) The Rest of the Bodies have between 3000 and 3999. Most profitable Experiments : Surface Sample: 9468 , Mat. Study on Surface: 7574 , Gravity and Seismic on Surface: both 5207 , Gravity Scan Space low: 4620 (this means getting multiple samples, as its the 'maximum' value) (these are excluding the 'splashed down' values as i calculated them seperatly) all the source numbers can be found in the Wiki. Maybe these numbers can help some people. At least the max number helped me. Cheers and fly safe

Question is easy: WHY do you build Bases and/or Stations apart from the building itself? We know Ressources (probably) wont happen in stock KSP. That means there will never be a reason to build a 'BIG' infrastructure anywhere, as science equipment doesn't need a lot of space and everything relevant in stock KSP can be achieved by Probes and ships and landers, maybe sometime rovers if the Science system gets overhauled. But there isn't any use for Stations or Bases (like Funds/Rep/Science) which couldn't be achieved more efficient in another way. And Refueling Stations are a really inefficient thing: Refueling the ship directly is ALWAYS more fuel saving than shipping it to a station and move the ship there too, no matter where the station is. BUT building a base or a station is fun itself if you're not bringing it up or down in one piece but in a modular way. So the question is: Why are you doing it? What reason has your Base / Station? What do you say to your Space Program CEO, why exactly so many funds should be raised to build extensive infrastructure somewhere far away?

Yes another topic about the change of the Science System. I also feel it needs a change to get actual Gameplay out of the Science System. And the more threads and the more people i see with similar hopes and ideas the more optimistic i get that squad might actually read some of the Threads and change the System to be more Fun. Let me quote my Ideas for the Science System Overhaul: And my two Threads regarding the Topic: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/93005-The-Career-motivator-The-SCIENCE-System http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89221-Devs-Read-this-What-KSP-needs

I actually never ran out of money since the funds have been implemented. I barley need any contracts at all, just the Explore 'body' contracts yield a lot more than the mission itself needed to be pulled of. My Jool 5 costed 1 million and with explore Jool and Bop (the only ones that were active during it) i earned i think around 1.7 million. No need to grind anything. With the new easy option to turn reverts off i'm thinking of using that in my 0.25 career. So ship testing and engineering phase will cost a lot more as you probably crash 2-3 ships during developement, so funds might finally become an issue if every mission goes the 'no way back' way;)

Keeping the Gameplay basically as it is was the idea to compromise it. And it would change EVA and Command Seat Missions. And 'snacks' was a KSP-Term of saying eatable energy sources like C6H12O6 (aka Sugar) which can be made from CO2 and Water but consumes energy. It was just idealized, but not silly. We're just burning things in our body (lets assume Kerbals also gain their energy through eating and breathing) , but we're not destroying anything we eat. We gain Energy from the chemical connections in the molecules and release the endproducts as waste (containing the same number of Atoms as we have eaten(minus some we utilized to grow, but thats mostly in childhood)). And so in an idealized process with no energy loss (lets pretend thats possible in KSPUniverse) you can recreate the original chemical connections under the use of energy. And plants do that with sunlight energy to grow and form complex molecules mainly out of Water and CO2 (and some minerals and stuff), and these mostly Hydrocarbons + O2 contain more chemical energy than H20 + CO2 contained before, put in there from photone energy gained through photosyntesys. In real world no 'converter' would be 100% efficient , but the principle of recreate burnable material from the burned endproducts while consuming energy is nowhere near 'silly' !

That can also be changed by a Science system Overhaul with some Experiments needed to be manned and some Experiments needed to be activated/deployed by a Kerbal. That way you'd have things were you 'need' to bring a Kerbal and that would make a difference between Probe and Manned. I have an Idea, what about a compromise, let me explain: Lets implement a Life Support System but not in a way of a Ressource. Lets pretend every command module would've implemented Life support things in there directly. Like some plancton-cleaner converting CO2 back to O2 and producing new snacks with the Carbon and other extracted things and Recycler converting Urine to Water. Lets pretend such a thing is implemented in every Pod. So now you'd have some sort of Timer how long you can stay on EVA , so no Command Seat missions anymore. And every Pod would consume an amount of Electricity per Second. So Life support would be a 'balancing out energy supply' problem rather than a 'we need 10t more snacks on the ship' problem. And if it runs we would still save the Kerbalish way of doing missions. If a Pod runs out of Energy for Life support another timer would start how long this Pod can provide support while unpowered, so with the assumed left snacks until their empty and until the Kerbals will die due to CO2. A bigger Pod can provide a bigger Time unpowered with the Hitchiker and the Lab being the best. Another useful thing in such a scenario would be a generator producing electricity from fuel and oxidizer as your last hope in the night, but such a generator was already announced to come so no problem there. A Manned mission would need much more electric charge per second than a probe mission, which is the same way in real but not in KSP right now. It would implement Life support in a believable way while keeping it a balancing and not a more fuel problem. what doya think?

So heres my opinion on the topics mentioned: ISP: I'd say yes lets adjust the system for behavior of the engines in the atmosphere, but thats not a big deal, because basically its just making the system 'realistic' but wouldn't change the gameplay much. Engines are better in a Vaccuum and not so good in an Atmosphere. Some more significant some less. And thats whats counts basically and thats already implemented in the way it is now. So i'd say yeah go for it if you've nothing else left to do, so maybe as an update after 1.0 Life Support: It may be more realistic, but i'd say NO don't do it stock. If you want it you can get a mod. But it would destroy the Kerbalness of the missions. In reality every bit of a mission is planned before, in KSP sometimes you improvise, like you see ' oh so much deltaV left!? lets land on another body too!' and that wouldn't be possible anymore if you haven't planned it before with the life support system. So this time gameplay wins over realism IMO and if you want it there are mods for it. Aero: Yes change the Aero, it would make flying easier and you'd have to watch for the shape of the things you build. I'd go for something like NEAR Aerodynamic system. BUT simultanously to improve stock Aero they'd have to implement Stock Fairings so you're still able to bring weird shapes into Orbit. Reentry Heat: I'd say Yes as with Aero, BUT implement it in a way new players don't explode without knowing why that happened. So maybe a new GUI Gauge similar to the G-Force-Meter showing the Temperature of the hottest Part with a red zone where the temp-limit of that part is, so it'll be obvious why something broke. Universe Scale: Thats a difficult one. With higher timewarp the time would be the same on rails, but the atmos would take longer which is tedious. And if they implement a better Surface exploring System (look at my Science System Overhaul Thread) and you'll have actual things to do on the Surface, the areas and biomes could get waaaay too big for Gameplay fun. The only pro i see for Real Scale is the better low orbit view over atmo planets, so right now it would only be a pro for 4 planets and its a minor pro. So again IMO Gameplay wins over Realism this time.

These numbers are to0 high especially Tylo to Laythe and Transfer to Pol and the departure back to Kerbin, all of these things can be done under 1000m/s you have to try a little with the maneuvor nodes and eyeball the best transfer windows between the moons. Look at my mission report for an example , e.g. i needed just around 250m/s from low Bop to low Pol Orbit, you can save a lot of fuel that way (Of course only if you're running low on fuel, if you have tons of margins for errors you can fly high energy transfers all the time )

Liowen: Caring about other players achieving things has nothing to do with the topic... That would be exactly the same as it is now, KSP is an offline Game so you only compete with the achievments of others if you read the community pages and decide to do so, but that has nothing to do with the science System. or i did't got what you were trying to say. And players making their own rules is possible everywhere. You are forced to click on a button to get science right now. I think thats not fun. You have to be 'forced' to do something for your Science nevertheless, otherwise the Career would just be Sandbox as you'd getting all whenever you wnat it. And Sandbox is already there as a no forced things mode. Its about making the necessary 'forced' action to get progress in career a fun gameplay element too. the game wouldn't tell you more how to play as it does now. It could be just me, but the stuff you said with 'forced' gameplay and 'problems' caused by players caring about what other players do, doesn't make any sense at all to me. Maybe i got it wrong, if someone understood it different than that person could maxbe say what you were trying to say in other words, but as i understand what you're saying it doesn't make sense to mee.

Science on a click of a button - The Motivation for big career missions In Sandbox we play for Roleplay Reasons and do what we want to do. In Career we want to run our own Space Program ... for some sort of reason. Right now that Reason is Science. Yes we need Rep to get Contracts to get the Funds to pay for our Missions but these Missions where needed for Science in the First place. Thats the Reason right now for doing these missions anyway ( apart from doing Contracts just for the Contract-Fun and again Roleplay) . And i think everybody agrees that there is currently not so much to do on the surface of your choosen target ( apart from simply clicking on experiments), not to mention any reason for Rovers or Bases or Stations. Some time ago i posted a Thread about what KSP needs IMO to be called finished and i metioned a lot of things there, but i think the Science related stuff deserves its own thread. Let me quote the relevant ideas: But of course that is just MY imagination how Squad could make the Motivator of Career more fun to play. Basic idea is just that you have to do a lot more and different things in different enviroments before you get your Science. And not just more biomes, that would just be a lot more places with nothing exploration-like to do. But this is not a Suggestion (of course Squad if you read it and like it then use and implement it) Its a question for and Discussion about the Motivator of Career. Which is Science right now but not have to be Science forever. For me the way to take Science as a Motivator is totally fine and i really like the general idea as it is the same Motivator as in our Real Life Missions. The hole Science System just needs an overhaul to make the Exploration and discovery of the unknown actually fun and not just clicking a button. The way to get there is already fun and challenging but the reason you get somewhere isn't that fun after all. What do you think? Does the Science System needs an Overhaul? Or do you like it exactly the way it is now? or something in between? Would you even want something else as the Main Motivator (e.g. Ressources instead of Science)? Or do you don't give a **** about Motivation or Sense behind your Mission as you always go for what you feel you want to do now? TL;DR : Science Motivates the main Career Missions as it is in Real Life. IMO clickfest Science is boring and could use change. You like Science as the Motivator? You like Science System as it is right now? Discuss. (Mods: I thought about putting this in Sugesstion-Discussion, but since its also about how it is right now and how people like or dislike the status quo it felt more fitting in General discussion. If you feel different move it) Cheers

It happens that its counted as Surface if your too close to the shore, if a report doesn't read ocean simply float further away from the land.

Not actually done today, but during the week. I finally pulled off my Jool 5 Mission and it already got Reviewed . I'm really happy with the outcome. Link to pictures in my Signature;)

Thank you for Reviewing my Mission , now i can have this *look down* awesome new Signature Yeah the two command seats during Jool flight were kinda nessesary as you can get the two needed EVA reports from them without having to get out on a ladder. Because getting out at 5750m/s inside an atmosphere kinda lets you 'drift' away from your ship at insane speed, so its a bad idea And yes about the Claw: Its lighter than two docking ports and more important, you don't need an aditional docking port at your lander, although you have to make a counterweight for the Claw, but that was a good place for the solar panels. And that way the core of the Aventador became a kinda unique look

Jool-5-Mission-Report This is my official entry for the Jool-5 Mission on Jebediahs Level. First of all the statistics: - Which game versions did you use? - 0.24.2 - What mods did you use, if any? - NavBallDockingAlignmentIndicator, MechJeb(only for Data) (and Chatterer and EVE but thats only immersion) - How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal? - only One - How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where? - Zero, i actually had waaaay more fuel than needed - Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey? - Yes... everybody was at least 'in' something - Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc? - Just a load of Science equipment - Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it! - It's in the pictures Some more Data: Mass on Pad: just under 2000t Crew: 7 Kerbals including Jeb Bill and Bob Costs: Just under a million Funds Quarters: 4 in Hitchhiker, 2 in Lab and 1 in Lander Mk1(lets pretend the one that was most annoying to the others) Landings: 3 Kerbals per Landing MainShip: The Aventador Lander/Flyer: The Huayra Tug: The Huracan (Named after the God of Wind and two Fighting Bulls...of course) The Mission: After a long and testing-rich engineering and planning phase the launch day had finally come. And the KSC wanted to see something for their million funds, so this was the Mission target: Explore the Joolian System. I mean fully explore it. For Real, get all the data and everything there is to know, we don't have money and time for another mission!!!!! With the Numbers in the KSP-Wiki i calculated that the theoretical maximum of all the Science in Jools SOI would be 25080 Science Points (without the 'recover a craft from' science) ( assuming you would bring a zillion experiments for everywhere) So i said to myself that the mission will be succesfully accomplished if the final Science is 24500 Points or higher, thats when i would call it "Got ALL the Science". So the Mission Plan: Getting at least three(3) Science Reports of every Experiment from every Situation (with two exceptions: Only two ScienceJr. at Laythe Flying and only two Science Jr. at Laythe Ocean) and return them home. Yes this includes a suborbital Jool flight. To prevent accidently transmitting Science i just didn't installed any Antennas on the ship Launch: After last checks of the ladders the mission began. And immediatly 1600t where burned to bring the Aventador into Orbit. The burn to Jool needed around 2000m/s, just as expected. Arriving: Entering Jools atmosphere led to a little surprise: There seems to be a small window for 'upper atmosphere' Science during aerobraking, although you're not suborbital. It is waay lower than the Atmosphere Border but there is a small window, and i took the opportunity. Parking in eccentric Orbit, detaching the Huayra and the Huracan. Braking close to Jool with the Huracan and drop the Huayra into the atmosphere. I tested the best way of doing this several times during planning, if interested in details ask for them. flying Suborbital in Jools atmosphere, collecting Science fast and accelerating the hell outa there again. Docking back with the Huracan in Low Jool Orbit and then returning to the Aventador. Dropping the MainSideTanks. Laythe: Aerobrake and again a lucky strike with upper atmo science, which actually saved me an extra flight of the Huayra. Landing on Laythe at a Coast, there was the only real minor problem during the mission: I discovered the Struts to hold the Wings were asymetrical, speaking one side was missing, i think some issue during the assembly of all the subassemblies. Result was that the Left Wing was wobbly as hell and it was really hard to fly. But it was possible so the mission could continue. Doing Science, driving into water, doing Science, back to shore and Launch back to the Aventador. Dropping the Jet and the Wings on the way. Tylo: Getting cheap to Tylo, parking in highly eccentric orbit. Braking closer with the Huracan, the Huayra and the Tylo-Addon. Landing the Huayra with the Tylo-Addon, getting Science, starting again. Vall: Landing just with the Huayra and this was the only time where i really had to look at the Fuel. barely got back into Orbit, collected the Huayra with the Huracan and flewn back to the Aventador in its parking Orbit. Bop: After some orbits i could get to Bop really cheap. And Bop is easy. Pol: Cheap Transit due to good Bop-Pol Position. And Pol was easy too. After that i had over 350 Reports and a hole load of Fuel left. That ship might actually be able to pull of some kind of Grand Tour but that was not the Mission Target. (And with already 350 Reports i didn't wanted to calculate the differences at the end to get the Jool-SOI Science;) ) So i've done another Pol Landing collecting more Reports. And then i setted up another close Tylo, close Jool and close Laythe flyby to get even more Reports (around 5-6 per Experiment). Leaving Jool with slingshot and 383 Reports. Flying to Kerbin and spending the rest of the Fuel (over 5000m/s) to brake the Interplanetary Speed down. Landing with high speed reentry, with the Lab, the Hitchhiker and the Mk1 Lander Can. 7 Crew Members where happy and alive.Clicking on Recovery... Result 25361,7 Science Points. But that included 330 Points from accomplished Contracts. Subtracting that leads to the final Number: 25031,7 Science Points from Jools SOI alone and in one Single Trip. Further Down you'll find a proof-Video and a Video from the Science archives showing i really got nearly ALL of the Jool-Science, and its more than 24500 so i could say: Mission Accomplished (that might actually be a new science record ?) But now the pictures: Mechjeb DeltaV doesn't like complex Ships with Docking Ports, but i've made DeltaV Pictures of every detached modules too before first firing. I hope i got enough DeltaV and Fuel pictures so you(Ziv) can track down the consumption. If i forgot some important moment i could give you the original Craft-File so you can recreate each Situation and see that everything was possible. Just PM me if needed. Proof that all the Science was from Jools SOI: Turn on higher Quality and/or Fullscreen if its not readable And the Science Archive after the Mission: So I hope you enjoy this Report. The Aventador was really efficient. I flew everything myself so with MechJeb flying you could probably save even more fuel. You can ask any Questions about the flying or the Ship-Design or methods of collecting many Experiments if interested, i'm open to share my experiences. Cheers SkyRex94

Whooohooooo !!!! I just finished my Jool 5 Mission and it was the most complex mission yet, for me. I've made nearly 500 pictures and 3 videos at the end to proof the science points. I will start uploading and writing the mission log tommorrow, so if i'm fast you can expect another entry until tomorrow evening. I'm really happy everything worked out exactly as planned ( beside one minor issue but you'll read it in the log), the long engineering and planning really paid off.

So, as most of the posts here were positive responses to my ideas, this is the last bump of the thread, hoping the devs might finally read and maybe comment on it. Cheers

I've another question: can KSPs PQS System generate an Iapetus-like planet with the right parameters , so two sides with high contrast to each other ,, like iapetus has? or do you need to make your own texture etc. for that?

So engineering of my Jool-5 is going well. I just finished testing of the Lander and all it needs to land everywhere and fly on Jool. I just need to engineer the main ship and a little Tug before being ready for the mission (Jeb's Level). And as the testing goes, i'm pretty optimistic i'll could set a new Science Record for Jools SOI Science (Jool + all moons) if i can pull off the mission as i planned it I especially made a new KSP install for Jool-5 to have just MechJeb as a Mod(for DeltaV) and a new Career where Jools Science is still untouched I don't know yet when i'll have the time to actuallly pull it off but i'll think you can prepare for my mission report within the next 3 weeks.

I'm really happy you want to do it For the Rings: what i need for implementation isn't clear yet as i'll be using Kopernicus Mod as soon as it's finished (PFCE is buggy and not so variable). The Dev said already that it'll be possible to implement Rings as well but i'm not sure how and what texture you'll need for it. (could be large surface with the hole rings, could be just a small rectangle part of the ring color which will be constructed to a ring i don'nt know yet, i can tell you if Kopernicus is finished) For details: Think in scale to Syterion and Saturn: Than the outer end of the Rings would be the same distance as the outer end at Saturn, the inner end would be at the middle distance of Saturns rings, maybe just a little closer, so the Rings are half as wide as Saturns Rings (in scale to the referring Planet). And Color is the base Color Blue of Syterion. Variety as Saturns Rings so with some small ones, some big ones and one (maybe two) recognisable gaps in the Rings. (After all GP2 will be the KSP-Saturn-Analogue) (But you don't nessesarily have to make the Rings yet as i don't know how they'll be implemented) Position around the equator, obviously as anything else would be unrealistic and i'll make something like a 'Kerbal+' pack, so realistic and plausbile but very varied and diverse. WIP title for the pack is 'New Discoveries', at least in my head

Felsmak I really like your drawings, so here's my Request if you're searching for things to do : If you can also create an .png 2048*1024 Texture of it i could actually implement it in the Pack as soon as i'll start doing it. My Idea of Syterion, the 2nd GP of my Planet-pack-idea i'll will start working on as soon as Kopernicus is finished. Described it here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85528-Huge-Blue-Horizon-Theories-about-the-7th-Planet But here comes a more detailled description (...trying to put the ideas in my head into words...): Syterion (speaked: SuyTeeRion): Orbit Radius : 1.75 * Jools Radius Radius: 7.770km Mass: 1.2 * Jools (its big but not dense, like Saturn) -Base-Color-Sheme: Like Neptunes Blue but just a very very slightly little brighter -A ring in same blue color, half the with of Saturn-Ring but same Radius -In contrast to blue(a calm friendly color) i imagine the clouds and cloud bands being wild and mighty-looking. Imagine Jupiter being blue as a starting point. -NOT one big Storm-Dot like on Neptune or Jupiter, but two smaller ones, one in the northern hemisphere the other roughly 150 degrees west or east from that in the southern hemisphere. Both like half the size of the big red dot and not very round but more stretched due to the wind forces. -NONE of those tiny Dot-Storms like everywhere on Jupiter. -Many of those cloud-bands around the planet some bigger some smaller(like the ones on your Jupiter-drawing on the height of the big red dot). -And cloud bands on nearly the hole planet, so also some near the poles like on Saturn and not just becoming one color, like on Prominatus. -some brighter some darker blue than the base color blue. -These bands wildly swirlled together at the connections to see the wild wind forces (like on Prominatus and Jupiter). -And last some white-ish clouds ripped apart spreaded a little over the planet ( like the white clouds on our Neptune) If some of the points aren't clear for you please ask and i'll try to explain better what i meant. If interested in my hole Planet Pack Ideas, i could share them here too. I hope it got clear how i'd imagine the feeling of the Gas Giant Syterion. If you'll do it i will be really looking forward to see the result, i really like all of your drawings you've made so far.

never been to Dres at all. never been to Eeloo legit. Never landed on Moho legit(just flyby). But Landed on everything else. AND i'm currently in preparation of a Jool-5 Mission with getting all the Science from everywhere which includes Jool. So i've already made successfull manned Testflights collecting JOOL FLYING (and high atmo) SCIENCE and succesfully returned to Orbit.

I've a question: Do you use Texture-Maps for the planets you draw before making them round or do you actually draw them round from the beginning. If you use Textures and i would ask you for a Gas Giant with specific description how it should look, then could you also share the Texture Map if you are finished so the design could actually be implemented in a planet Pack? I'm not deeep in Graphic Design, so i don't know how you make these awesome planet drawings and don't know if it is possible or even included in your way of designing these?

Okay i see your point. But the argument with Tylo is invalid as i also posted in the related thread: Atmosphere isn't only dependent on gravity. It matters what stuff is available their and in which conditions it is in gaseous form: Example: Ganymede is huge but hasn't an Atmosphere, BUT, although smaller and lighter than Ganymede, Titan has an Atmosphere which is thicker than our own one at the Earth. So Gravity ALONE doesn't matter and Tylo is indeed pretty realistic as an analoge to Ganymede. But i see your point in having a Super Earth in Gas Giant Orbit for Gameplay reasons although I won't do this in my own Pack because it doesn't fit my KSP-plausible-feeling. Pictures look good besides.

Oh i remember this thread Little update to what i posted earlier: I did a little research and had to erase the GP3 as Super-Earth idea from my plan as it is unrealistic. If a heavy enough planet is further away than a certain distance it will form a Gas Giant for sure since there is nothing pushing away all the gas it will collect. So as Jool is a Gas Giant this distance has to be closer than Jools Orbit in the Kerbol System. ANd this space is already pretty dense populated. So i changed my plan to make GP3 as a GP and maybe when all other ideas are finished i will add a Super Earth in close Orbit(But then it would probably capture Eve and Kerbin or Duna if they are in range (realisticly thinking) so chances are i will erase Super-Earth Idea completly) After all it would just be a heavier Eve (no one would explore the hole surface) and so totally impractical for anything but a speciallized mission just for that and after all not a great loss for the gain of being plausible and realistic (which is my aim and which is what i like for gameplay feeel) If your aim is to be realistic too maybe think about it and google for SuperEarth-Class Planets and how they form and where. If you just want it for the challenge or looks not caring realism than feel free to do so and never mind what i just said. I really like Felsmaks drawings but i forgot where to find his thread, do you have a link? Did he made these after a request from you? Do you know if he can make .png textures for planets to (especially for gas giants) ? I got better in designing Syterion with my self made texture with Gimp but its not looking as awesome as his drawings.