dsonbill

While I agree that these at their core don't, I think most texture mods with KSP require the texture replacer plugin. This is a feature that should probably be stock anyway, but whatever, Squad. Same as above, we're in total agreement here. Since I've owned KSP, I've always wondered why ModuleManager functionality never made it into stock. Indeed, even with that little bit, a lot is possible - and if they could work out the deals with Microsoft (probably easier) and Sony (I still have my doubts about them allowing mods, but it's a stark possibility with someone like Bethesda pushing them) than just models, textures, and confignode stuffs would be quite cool, and would go somewhat far in what you could do with them. This category covers the above two as well, but we can't exactly count on Squad doing very much more - they're already working on multiplayer, and that's quite a tall order - but again, it's a possibility. I use a lot in this category (I guess - what people consider needs to be stock is probably pretty radical), but I'm a dedicated PC user now. I still think people would love things like MechJeb's autodock feature (only way to get a near-perfect relative rotation afaik), Infernal Robotics, and TweakScale to name a few important ones to me, but at this point we can't expect everything fancy to be available to console/stock users, I suppose. TweakScale also kind of seems like it'd be something that's stock. If they can pull that off, then there is probably no need for mods of this nature on console, though they will still probably miss out on a lot of crazy stuff in the future. As it stands, these "should be stock" mods are solutions provided by the community, despite a lot of them probably being deemed as necessary by the average player - Squad needs to take a close look at the various tool-type mods that are out there, and see if they can add it/something similar to stock. Otherwise, they fall into the "not-simple" mod category, and become unattainable to console players. That last bit I bolded is important, Squad. If you don't get to allow fully-featured mods (which I'm still pretty sure you won't, since Fallout 4 probably uses the same two scripting languages that Skyrim did, which I think is one of the major contributing factors to them getting accepted by Microsoft), then you really need to add all the stuff that people use consistently. There are many tools created by the community that enhance the playability of KSP a great deal, and if those community solutions aren't available to console users, then they'll be losing a great deal of precision, flexibility, and scheduling at the least, which is something most of us take for granted. Add Kerbal Alarm Clock, add the precise node mod, and any other tools people use - they're actually more important than more gameplay features at this point, which is something I never thought I'd say about KSP.

Ah lol, that makes sense. But the quote in question is: This is a fact. You can't do what coding does with a texture; the distinction is absolutely necessary. He could have argued about Fallout 4 and it's absolutely monumental act of allowing flexible, coded/scripted mods on consoles, but instead he's insisting that the kinds of things UT3 did should be considered as such, which is just plain misleading. One can call those things a mod if they wish, but the simple fact is the kinds of mods that KSP has are almost entirely not to deal with things that already exist in the game, and require a lot more flexibility than adding textures and models.

Lolwhut? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy Excerpt

No, I'm not. I'm telling you the difference in power between having something as simple as a map pack and having the power to add your own code. This is a very simple concept to understand for most people. Again, I'm telling you the difference between a little map pack and adding your own code. If you can't accept that there are huge differences between the two, I have no idea where your head is at. Go ahead and call them mods - it doesn't change the fact at all that you can't do nearly the same thing with packs filled with textures that you can do with actual coding. Btw, in case you hadn't noticed, this is what's referred to as an informal argument. Because of this, I'm going to go ahead and say that your use of No True Scottsman falls under the fallacy-fallacy.

I looked up more on it, and it appears they don't *want* to have to approve them, but no official word on it yet. I'd say they get away with it right up until someone releases a talk on "1001 ways to use Fallout 4 to get into the return address". That's not a No True Scotsman fallacy - software has real life, actual limitations. That's how it works, sorry. You can't get around that simple fact - some things are bound to have more flexibility than others. The UT3 mods appear to be nothing more than map/weapon/texture packs, which are not even close to the flexibility of being able to actually code. To make it a bit more clear: With actual code, you could turn any game into a game of pacman. You can make guns that make people float, doors that lead to the door behind you, portals, rockets, game-breaking explosions, turn the sky into hell, create awful hit detection, create new systems, new ai, new game modes, airplanes/jets, a floating monkey that shoots fire from it's eyes, and pretty much anything else you can think of. With map/weapon/texture packs, you can change the look of things, and add new weapons that have the same effect as every other weapon, and you can add new maps. That's it.

It does seem to allow for some very simple mods, ones which don't even touch the calipur of KSP mods. Totally different league here, and I wouldn't be surprised if you had to write the UT3 mods in some watered-down version of Lua or something, if the mods even have *that* much flexibility, which from the list of mod types I could find for UT3, doesn't seem to be the case. I highly, highly doubt this. People said the same thing about Skyrim, mind you - and look at what ended up being the reality? It's possible, of course, but almost completely unlikely that you'll get actual modding capabilities. Maybe skins and texture packs, etc, but almost certainly nothing more.

Orly? You said: I will be amazed if Squad provide dedicated servers for multiplayer. And I'm telling you: For PC, you will get it. For consoles, not in a million years.

I'm saying nope to mod support. Mod support will never, ever, ever happen on a console game. Nah bro. Multiplayer is easy. Subspaces are simple. It's honestly the most simple concept you could ever have. All a subspace is, is a time. You're in a specific subspace, you're in a specific time. The orbits are propagated by time in KSP, so that's all you need.

Except for, you know, Sony and Microsoft. Because console. Nope. Nope.avi. This is a given for PC, but it will *never* happen for PS4/XBone. Nope, nope, nope. The reason you guys will never see cross-plat multiplayer, dedicated servers, and mod support on consoles is because of security. *No* console manufacturer is ever going to risk an "easy" way to hack the console. Sorry, it's just never going to happen. Additionally, Sony and Microsoft have historically had some pretty strict restrictions on how server-based games operate on their consoles. For this reason you'll almost certainly never see a real dedicated server system on any console game. Nah, that's not what a DMP subspace is. A subspace is just a point in time.

Apparently you haven't played many Early Access games.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/130464-WIP-1-0-4-BDArmoury-DMP-Add-on

This is really something I should have fixed before I stopped working on it... There is a variable in the client that will tell you if it is connected - best way I can figure of making this safe for single player is to have an enabled bool for the BDArmory DMP plugin/all functions check if client is in the connected state. Let me know if you need help doing this - though I highly suspect you have this all under control and already knew exactly what to do

I couldn't really come up with a better way of doing it. Syncing the rays would have all the same effects, but it seemed a little more accurate to do it this way? Maybe jediminer543 will change this? This should not be possible, as all damage and effects are temporally correct in the code. You also can't harm vessels that have been altered in the future.

Please go to jediminder543's new thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/130464-WIP-1-0-4-BDArmoury-DMP-Add-on The OP has been updated to reflect the change in maintainer/developer. This thread will probably be closed to prevent any confusion/overlooked inquiries in the future.

Awesome! Feel free to take it over The main reason I developed this to start with is because not many people really new how to make DMP plugins except us working on DMP (or never bother to try learning I guess?), and I felt it was just time for me to do it since it wasn't that hard. However, I've moved on to developing my own game and that's been taking up a lot of my free time. If you need any help with DMP or with what I've done in the code, I'm generally hanging out in #DMP and #KSPModders. Again, thank you for putting work into the plugin!

You're a bit late to the party, is all. I believe there are many private servers out there though. The public servers just don't get played as often as they used to.

Are you planning on using my BD Armory plugin for this? I suppose it will be the first proper test! Please tell me if you have any problems. I'm always in #DMP, which you can access from http://d-mp.org, or by connecting to esper.net with an IRC client. Also, if you think you have a good idea for the DMP plugin for BD Armory, please feel free to let me know - I may just integrate it

The basic mechanic of an online message board is to strike against game developers, rally against them to get what you want instead of doing it in a suggestive and peaceful, discussion-welcoming manner? Surely, it's impossible for someone within an industry to think an opinion is silly based on the factors of prior experience with the subject, and the knowledge that the person with said opinion has no experience with the implications and implementation of what they are suggesting.

Saying that you can do something doesn't mean that you should. You can rob a bank. You can pirate KSP. You can stop eating forever. You can go to the sun. You can commit acts of terrorism in your country. Again, if I wasn't clear before: Having common decency. Respecting the people that made the thing you are playing today, who put their entire time into it only to have a mob of people decide that they can't make the game they want to, because BASHFLAJKHDG I HAET BARRN BURNNN BRN DOOOOWN GJHWOIEGHJOWEHGOI:WHgo LUK @ AL MY SUPRRTRS U MST OBY ME SQUAD. Yes, I may state my opinion. Probably not here, mind you, but I would. I'd note how I think it's a stupid choice, etc etc. But I would NOT try to make a mob to get my way with their game! If anything, it would drive me to make my own space game with a proper mod API. KSP doesn't even do this, and programming advanced features is already a serious PITA.

I didn't realize 372 people made up a majority of the 146,052 members of the forums. Note the title of said forum. Everyone is here to suggest and discuss things they think would help the game or make it more enjoyable, not to start striking until Squad does what they want. There's always room for making these suggestions and discussing them amongst each other - this will hopefully not only get the best out of the product, but everyone's viewpoints have a chance of integrating everyone else's. When people start mobbing up like with Bac9/RoninPawn (RoninPawn straight up did this, and Bac9 at least unintentionally did) and the Round-8 thread, you shift from making suggestions to being part of a mob making a demand - there's no room for common ground, further understanding, viewpoint integration, or compromise. There's only room for picking teams, arguing with bad logic, and getting what you want without regard or respect for anyone else involved.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't being very clear: YES. Let me put it to you this way: the barn that godarklight is talking about? I freaking hate it. I HATE IT. But if that's what Squad wants to put into the game, I'm not about to destroy the joy they derive from doing so by trying to rally people into complaining till they do what I want. PS4 version? I think that's a flipping terrible idea; mods make this game what it is today. PS4 version will absolutely not support mods. But am I gonna rally people into complaining to Squad till they cancel the PS4 version? No, I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to complain about how I think the money they spend on the port would be better spent on getting me a new coffee pot.

Yup, seems like fair criticism to me! Totally not biased at all! And I don't claim the other person said something simply because they disagree with them, or say I don't see the appeal in something as if it's a good reason not to do something. I didn't say that because I disagree with you - I partly do. Anyone who's been in #DMP know's I've voiced my opinion on how lacking core KSP gameplay is (hint: there pretty much is none unless you count flying around aimlessly). I said it because you think you know the best way for someone else to spend their time on their project that they're making the way they want to, which is something I do disagree with. Thinking something is sucky is a respectable opinion. Thinking something would make something cooler is a respectable opinion. Thinking someone else should spend their time the way you want them to because you don't like what they're doing with their day is another thing entirely. Oh, so I guess we're talking about life-saving, mission-critical software here? Like, if they don't fix it in those two weeks, thousands upon thousands will die, right? Wait, it's a video game? You mean you're complaining about 2 weeks of vacation over a memory leak in a program that you can avoid simply by not double-clicking it? How dare those people take a 2 week break after slaving away at writing this game, when there is a critical memory leak!

And Squad obviously has an opinion that differs from yours, but you feel the need to so very swiftly tell them where they are wrong. But I suppose that's to be expected, with you being a major video game developer and all, having developed several AAA... oh wait... Well, I guess it's ok, since you're at least a programmer and have made a few mods of your own for the.... dang, sorry - did it again. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, and entitlement is a very bad reason to do something. Saying you are entitled to a thought is the same as saying "at the very least, it's not illegal for me to think this".

An Example You: "Hey, you should work on this part of XThing instead of that part of XThing. I think it would be a much better use of your time." Them: "Actually, I'm really freaking tired of *all* of XThing apart from this new bit. XThing is nearing market saturation, and the accounting person is yelling at us because we're exhausting all the funding raised from early access still dev'ing this game, so if you don't appreciate what I'm doing right now, I think it would be a much better use of my time to forget about this project entirely and move on to something both more capitalizing for the company and more mentally stimulating for the programmers." A Summary Be happy they're even saying that they're putting effort into it. The facts above are totally inferred and/or made-up, but the idea that such a very, very realistic situation could in fact be the truth should help you understand how incredibly arrogant and rude your position on this topic comes off as to many of us.

Why are people acting as if KSP can only be single player or multiplayer, but not both? Are we even thinking of the same thing? We're talking about a game here, people - a game with modes, that you can select. Push one button, you get single player; push a different button and you get multiplayer. If you want to play single player only, then play single player only. No one is going to force you to play multiplayer just because it suddenly becomes an option. In fact, KSP is already multiplayer - with DMP. And when you install DMP, the single-player mode of KSP doesn't magically disappear. That'd just be silly.