FloppyRocket

Is there a bug in ForScience! such that it gives EVA science experiment credit even if the ship/kerbal aren't carrying the EVA Experiments Kit? I don't even have that unlocked yet from the R&D center, but it looks like I'm getting science points for it.

Does ForScience! have any conflict with the [x] Science! mod? Can they both be installed at the same time? Answered my own question (after starting a new Science game to look at the details): I found no conflict. ForScience! seems to work fine with [x] Science! I got confused because on my other science game, I must have run out of things to collect science from with that vessel.

That feature still exists, but I think you only get the marker and distance if the target is nearby (within 30km?)

I guess the basics would be: Is SAS enabled? Are the engine gimbals enabled? Is the control point set to the same vessel that has the engine? An image would be helpful for more context. Another issue would be, perhaps moving the fuel around changes the center of mass such that the engine doesn't have enough gimbal range to steer the stack.

I'm not sure whether I'll try this challenge, but I gotta say it's one of the funniest sets of goals I've seen. And also sadly all true.

Thanks much!

Mission report: Caveman Apatite (Normal Career) completed: Notes: The Normal career 1x science multiplier really made this challenge a grind. Similar to my Talc Challenge missions, I stayed away from science farming on Kerbin (other than Launch pad, Crawlerway, and Runway). All missions returned to Kerbin for full points, no data transmission was used. I did accept a few contracts for accomplishments I was going to do anyway (reach orbit, etc). I did not take any parts testing or tourist contracts. Once I earned enough funds, I set up a 25% R&D strategy. Again, I have no idea if it yielded enough science points to be worthwhile. Sub-orbital missions on Kerbin covered the easy-to-reach biomes around KSC (Shores, Waters, Grassland, Highlands, Mountains, and Desert. Two near-orbital flights were made to the ice caps. Those missions carried whatever science parts I had unlocked at the time. Some were re-flown with the Science Jr once it was available. Orbital missions were to low and high Kerbin space, low and high Mun space, and low Minmus space. There were no Mun or Minmus landings. I had about 20 science points left after completing the first four levels, so I did not need a second Minmus trip. On two missions, I docked with a transfer stage in LKO in order to use its excess fuel and engine to get to the Mun - but I later realized that I didn't really need the transfer stage. One of the empty transfer stages ended up in a solar orbit after an unfortunate 2nd encounter with the Mun caused it to be ejected. Navigating to and around Minmus without any aids was not really a ton of fun. I had to learn a bunch of lessons about avoiding interference from the Mun, and how to make adjustments near Ap near Minmus to wait around for it to catch up. I launched and recovered that mission several times before getting a successful completion. I discovered that if you put a heat shield under the Science Jr, and stack a one-kerbal command pod on top, you can re-enter and land with two chutes pretty safely. On the sub-orbital flights. I added a drogue chute because I tended to be going too fast and too low. Update: I forgot to mention that the fuel cross-feed trick through a docking port was negated by the heat shield on the Science Jr. You can't crossfeed through a heat shield - you learn something every day. So I just used the transfer stage as a booster. I had originally planned to just use it as a fuel tank and discard its engine, but that just left me with a big tank of fuel and no way to use it. Here is a link to a few images: https://imgur.com/a/ugu4kZt

Thanks for the update, I've been curious about what the problem was.

Cool. I was not sure whether to try to aim for Minmus without having any maneuver nodes for trajectory planning.

Well, as I'm partway through Apatite now (Normal career mode), I am struck by how easy the Talc mode was, because it gave a 2x multiplier for science points (which I did not realize at the time, having not done enough research about the Difficulty settings in the first place). So, yes, I'm planning to do some Mun landings.

The kOS documentation is unlikely to tell you if there is a bug in the 'a' value.

Thanks, I did not yet look into what capabilities are lost in the harder challenges.

I completed Talc (twice) without landing on the Mun. One high-space flyby and one low-space flyby. But I never transmit any data, I return all the science to Kerbin. I think Goo is the only one that doesn't count for 100% completion on one attempt, so I carry two Goo. A third Goo yields very little, so not much is lost. No transmitting also means no need for relay satellites. =================== From the rules: Use of the KER and/or MechJeb mods, or other mods that provide more information than the stock game does, is not permitted.

Yes, it can be done in one continuous burn. Early rockets did this primarily because they did not have re-startable engines. The basic trick is that you fly to a higher Ap than your target orbit, then fly "downhill" to raise the Pe while lowering the Ap. If you balance everything just right, you get a circular orbit at the desired altitude. It's not easy. The math is very complicated.

I wasn't able to get enough delta-v into orbit for a Mun landing and return with a single launch. I do have a design that launches a separate fuel tank/engine/probe core, and docking with it to use it as a transfer stage. But before using it, I found that it I didn't need to. Flying two fly-by missions around the Mun (low space and high space) collects enough data to complete the 4th layer. I didn't need any KSP science farming or contract-chasing, no relays needed in Mun orbit (since Jeb or Val were on-board), and no science data transmissions (since I think that loses science points). I didn't use any docking missions, and only one launch was even close to the 18t limit. I don't know if this strategy will continue being successful for the more complicated levels. It just goes to show there are a lot of ways to peel this onion. All solutions are good solutions.

I think rendering all of that physics was eating all your CPU cycles.

I don't think so.

Once you have a pilot who has a one-star rating (from getting into orbit), then you should have both the prograde and retrograde hold SAS functions. If you double-click on a vessel in orbit, you can set it as your Target. Then you should have the target markers on the Nav ball. Also, I'm curious in your image how you got the radial and normal SAS functions inside the Caveman mode. In my Talc game, I never got past prograde and retrograde.

Maybe you should ask on the kOS forum if the 'a' value is correct for hyperbolic orbits.

You can't transfer fuel, but it will cross-feed across a docking port. I found that out by accident. So you could put a probe core on a fuel tank, attach a docking port to the tank, and launch it into orbit. Then you can launch a command pod with docking port, and rendezvous with the tank, and now you have extra fuel. You'll have to be able to dock without using the SAS aids - but you will have the Target markers on the Nav ball. What is this "build on the lawn" of which you speak? I'm going to start on the Apatite challenge, since last time I didn't use any of the stuff that isn't included in Talc. Maybe I'll explore some new methods.

I got the badge. it's very cool. How do I put it in my signature? Do I have to resize the image, upload it to a site somewhere, and add it as a link? I found how to edit my signature, but can't insert an image directly.

How did you determine the semi-major axis 'a' value?

It's possible.

Usually I throw on three of the tiny solar panels for the orbital missions. I don't know if you are under the parts limit, but they are very light. Thanks. It was quite a lot of fun!

I did a re-run and completed the TALC challenge. Here is some documentation: Summary: I accepted no contracts. I farmed no science around KSC except for Launch Pad and Crawlerway. Science on Kerbin came from several sub-orbital flights of increasing range. That covered Launch Pad, Shores, Grasslands, Mountains, Desert, probably a few others, and both Poles. Those sub-orbital flights included the Science Jr. once it was available. Scientist Bob covered all of the sub-orbital missions, so he could do the science dance after landing. But since Bob can't fly worth a drat, Jeb and Val alternated pilot duties for the orbital flights to low and high space. Then there were two Mun fly-by missions, to its low and high space. The orbital and Mun flights took two Goo, a barometer, and a temperature sensor attached to the top of the Onion pod, but left the Science Jr at home. For the Mun launches, to get under the 18t launch limit I had to partially drain one of the fuel tanks. The second Mun fly-by to low space was only because I was a few units short of buying the last tech package. And that's about it. Images: Here are a few images with a pseudo-informative captions, more are available, these are just some highlights to show progress. https://imgur.com/a/Neu3Dro