Duke MelTdoWn

Did you know there are 32 mini biomes around Kerbal Space Center, not only the Runway and Launch Pad? You can almost max out the tech tree without ever going to space. Some biomes only become available after you upgrade the building. Map by justintnelson taken from https://imgur.com/gallery/lKWuTu9 List of biomes can be found here: https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Biome#Kerbin I like to use a compact plane to explore these biomes. This can be done before rover wheels become available. E.g. Science Junkie 3000

I made a puny submission to the Air Speed Challenge (below 10,000 m). I am not sure if the weird placement of the heat shields in front is considered cheating ^^. 1937 m/s is not bad for a days work. I saw some old threads with higher altitude ceilings, you can go much faster it seems Workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3041717110

Hi, good challenge, I will try to tackle this! May I ask why no Mk1 parts? They might be more aerodynamic than Mk2 or Mk3. ___ Highest Speed over Land: 1558 m/s I used Engine Pre-Coolers to attach two Whiplash in addition to the two Rapiers, I hope that is OK? Main problem is heating, next version will get a heat shield. If we are allowed to fly higher we could go faster (less drag and heating). Thanks to the Pre-Coolers I was able to still accelerate a little after the Shock Cone Intake boiled off. ___ Highest Speed over Land: 1750 m/s Is rotating the heatshield 90° into the airstream so that it has less drag considered cheating? If it is in normal position my max speed is 1193 m/s. I am in a slight dive here. And I crashed into the sea. ____ Highest Speed over Land: 1936 m/s Use a fairing in front for ultra low drag. Two Small Heatshields rotated 90° in front to protect it. Wings mounted at 0° instead of 5° so you don't have to push down to stay very flat. I crashed this one on landing. Workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3041717110

Return of Morgaine Fuel Fairy to Kerbin orbit was successful. I wanted to see how much LF can be transported at most, so I made 10 aerobraking passes to lower my apoapsis. In the end it took me 5 days to ferry 36,065 LF (180 tons) out of the original 40,800 back to the Behemoth Orbital Refinery . This can be quicker if you are prepared to use some fuel for braking. About 1600 LF will be needed to return Morgaine to the Mun. One issue I did not anticipate was the UI for fuel transfer. With a stock game you would need to select over 100 individual LF tanks in Morgaine as source for the transfer, some of which are not even visible from the outside. So I guess a fuel transfer mod is in order.

A prototype of the 'Gargantua' Mining System did a test flight to the Mun. Seems to work well in principle, I need to tweak some minor things like initial fuel load. Also need to continue with a return to Kerbin test. The new design incorporates the findings from https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/208074-ore-vs-fuel-which-is-more-efficient/. Improvements compared to the 'Behemoth' Mining System include: More payload: the 'Morgaine' Fuel Fairy now transports 40,800 LF, of which about 33,600 (168 tons) are estimated to be usable payload to LKO. This is up from 120 tons of ore in the Leviathan Mk.3 Ore Freighter. Total mass 245 tons. Morgaine now uses Mk1 LF tanks which have less dry mass than ore tanks. Dry mass is only 42 tons (up from 37 tons in Leviathan Mk.3). This also boosts the range of Morgaine to 13959 m/s. Mining gear stays in constant use because it stays permanently on the surface in the 'Sindri' Refinery Rover. This allows you to buffer 3000 ore while waiting for the next ship to be refueled. More efficient Mun takeoff/landing because we do not need to lug around the mining gear. Instead we use a dedicated Descent/Ascent Stage. Only one engineer required - stays permanently with Sindri. Drawbacks: Lost flexibility - only LF can be transported. Should be fine because nobody runs their interplanetary ships on LF+OX anyways? You need to land 'Morgaine' close to Sindri. Can only transport 2 tourists in 'Morgaine' , but more cabins could be added easily. Requires Breaking Ground parts to connect Sindri to Morgaine. Connection with stock parts will result in Kraken attack. Pictures of the full flight:

I was doing some math regarding the optimal setup for orbital refueling after seeing the huge Eve ship of Tony Swallow. tldr: use Mk0 or Mk1 LF tanks instead of ore tanks, and convert the ore to fuel on the surface. Details here: These results made me think about possible improvements to the 'Behemoth' Mining System. Quick prototyping shows I could build a new orbital fuel ferry out of lots of MK1 tanks that is compatible with the Leviathan Mk.3 Miner. This Miner stage holds the drills, converter and the strong engines (Darts) and OX needed for takeoff; also some excess LF for landing on Nervas. On further thought, I decided to split the whole process into three stages instead of two for even more optimization: Orbital Fuel Fairy: will bring the fuel to the target ship: 4x Nerva, lots of Mk1 LF tanks, airbrakes for efficient return to Kerbin orbit, maybe small crew compartment to ferry tourists to the Mun and back. Mun descend/ascend stage: Landing legs + excess LF for landing; high TWR + OX tanks for takeoff and getting the payload back into Mun orbit; will be left in Mun orbit waiting for next Fairy Refueling Rover: This should be a Samaritan like Rover so that it can easily connect to the landed Fairy. Drills, converter, thermal, solar, fuel cells, science experiments etc. Maybe buffer some ore here while we wait for the next Fairy? All this heavy equipment can be left permanently on the surface. This way all the gear stays where it is needed and not lugged around unnecessarily. I will continue to refine this ___ 'Sindri' Refinery Rover is coming along nicely, I used a Sandworm chassis as basis, switched out the lab for ore tanks and added 4 additional drills. It uses Breaking Ground parts (robotic refueling arm) and can only run 3/6 drills with a 5* engineer before running out of electricity. Do you think I should build a full stock version and go for 5*? I only got 2* engineers in my campaign. Orbital Fuel Fairy next.

I am reviving this thread , here are some of my observations. 1) You need a converter somewhere for sustained operations. I like to put it on the Miner because of the convenience already mentioned by others. Land with almost empty tanks, refuel Miner on the surface. The drawback that you have to lug around the drills and converter can be mitigated by splitting the Miner into two stages, one with all the equipment needed on the surface (drills, converter, landing legs) and one with only the tanks to hold the ore or fuel meant for other ships. Another benefit of split into two stages is that you can tune the TWR of the Miner stage for takeoff (landing should be no problem because you land almost empty) and that of the Fuel/Ore Ferry for orbital operations. I implemented this two stage concept in the 'Behemoth' Mining System (https://kerbalx.com/Meltdown/Behemoth-Mining-System). First note that if we use a Convert-O-Tron 125 we must convert on the surface because of its poor conversion efficiency. Lets look at the two variants assuming 100% efficiency: we want to go from orbit to the surface, gather ore or fuel, and return it to orbit. Then start this cycle again. We need to look at both landing and takeoff to get the full picture. A) Haul around the converter. Refuel Miner on the surface. B) Haul around extra fuel for takeoff. Refuel Miner in orbit. Mass budget comparison A Orbit before landing B Orbit before landing A Surface before takeoff B Surface before takeoff dry mass of vessel (incl. dry payload tanks) dry mass of vessel (incl. dry payload tanks) dry mass of vessel (incl. dry payload tanks) dry mass of vessel (incl. dry payload tanks) fuel for landing fuel for landing fuel for next landing fuel for next landing (in the form of ore) dry mass of fuel tanks for landing dry mass of fuel tanks for landing dry mass of fuel tanks for landing dry mass of fuel tanks for landing dry mass ore tanks for next landing dry mass ore tanks for next landing fuel for ascend fuel for ascend fuel for ascend dry mass of fuel tanks for ascent dry mass of fuel tanks for ascent dry mass of fuel tanks for ascent dry mass of fuel tanks for ascent fuel for next ascent (in the form of ore) dry mass ore tanks for next ascent dry mass ore tanks for next ascent converter mass converter mass payload mass payload mass Note that fuel needed for ascent will be much larger than fuel needed for landing, because we want to lift additional payload to orbit. -> Using no converter on the Miner only makes sense if mass of fuel for ascent is less than half of the mass of the converter. At 4.25 tons for the Convert-O-Tron 250 this break even point will be reached for any practical vessel. 2) The question I want to investigate now is: Is it better to ferry the fuel meant for other ships around in the form of raw ore or already converted? Lets start by looking at the dry mass to fuel capacity ratio of some tanks. I assume 100% efficiency when converting ore to fuel (i.e. Convert-O-Tron 250 at optimal temperature). Mass stays constant during conversion. Conversion ratio: 1 ore = 2 LF [1] Tank data taken from [2]. Dry mass / LF ratio Tank LF capacity Dry mass (t) Wet mass (t) Dry mass / unit of LF (kg) Large Holding Tank 1500 ore = 3000 LF 2.0 17.0 0.666... Small Holding Tank 300 ore = 600 LF 0.5 3.5 0.833... Radial Holding Tank 75 ore = 150 LF 0.125 0.875 0.833... MK3 LF Fuselage 5000 3.57 28.57 0.714 MK2 LF Fuselage 800 0.57 4.57 0.7125 Mk1 LF Fuselage 400 0.25 2.25 0.625 MK0 LF Fuselage 50 0.025 0.275 0.5 So if compactness or flexibility is of no concern, and if you use the right tanks, it is more efficient to ferry around the converted LF instead of the ore. If part count is of no concern, go for Mk0 LF tanks. Otherwise go for Mk1 LF tanks or Large Holding tanks. ___ Well ... in theory. Practically compactness is a concern. E.g. I would need to replace the 8 Large Holding Tanks on the Leviathan Mk.3 Ore Freighter with 60 MK1 LF tanks to achieve the same refueling capacity of 120 tons. I am not sure I could fit all those tanks in such a way that they would not cause problems during landing (e.g. tendency to topple over because too tall). This would save 1 ton of dry mass on a vessel that weights ~190 tons when fully loaded. Current dry mass of Mk.3 is 37.435 tons, so it might be worth it - I will investigate further ___ Quick prototyping shows I could build a new orbital LF Ferry that is compatible with the Leviathan Mk.3 Miner. This Miner stage holds the drills, converter and the strong engines (Darts) and OX needed for takeoff; also some excess LF for landing on Nervas. On further thought, I decided to split the whole process into three stages instead of two: Orbital Fuel Fairy: will bring the fuel to the target ship: 4x Nerva, lots of Mk1 LF tanks, airbrakes for efficient return to Kerbin orbit, maybe small crew compartment to ferry tourists to the Mun and back. Mun descend/ascend stage: Landing legs + excess LF for landing; high TWR + OX tanks for takeoff and getting the payload back into Mun orbit; will be left in Mun orbit waiting for next Fairy Refueling Rover: This should be a Samaritan like Rover so that it can easily connect to the landed Fairy. Drills, converter, thermal, solar, fuel cells, science experiments etc. Maybe buffer some ore here while we wait for the next Fairy? All this heavy equipment can be left permanently on the surface.

Gilly ... to be continued

As Vanamonde said, what a huge ship! That is a good amount of Nervas, I guess you have pretty decent thrust/weight ratio for an interplanetary ship? I try to get away with much less TWR, for example my Gilly ship Pannychis only has 5 Nervas in total (TWR 0.23). Are you using split burns/periapsis kicks to reduce the time needed for the Kerbin escape burn? I saw a good tutorial here: Kerbal University: Maneuver Splitting And I might have something for you to shorten the time needed for orbital refueling. A month ago I constructed the 'Behemoth' Mining System. It allows you to ferry 120 tons of ore from the Mun to Kerbin orbit in one go. https://kerbalx.com/Meltdown/Behemoth-Mining-System

Moho ... if they can make their capture burns. 'Maia' Moho Exploration Stack "We have come to stay, and we brought toys." Maia was the first interplanetary stack launched in this career. I hope I packed everything I need. Launched on day 32; VeHeReLau recovered day 33; day 33 - 40 periapsis kicks; Kerbin escape burn day 43 From left to right: VeHeReLau Launcher, Icarus Lander, Hermes Station, Hephaistos Miner, Nabu Depot with Antlion and Scarab Rovers attached, Phaethon Relay Carrier 'Sandworm' Exploration Rover "The best part is no part and the less parts the better." Sandworm was flown as an insurance policy if Maia runs into trouble. Prototype is currently at Minmus. 'Sancus' Long Range Shuttle "I did not read the fine print." Sancus was flown as an insurance policy if one of the Kerbals gets homesick.

Minmus MinmusBase I 204 parts, 63 tons, 4 crew. Landed in Lowlands on 14.39% ore. I used this Mentha class base to explore the entirety of Minmus. The detachable pods came in very handy for biome hopping and contracts. One of my most efficient designs. Launched on day 17, arrived on day 24. MinmusStation I 189 parts, 52 tons, 4 crew. 36x35 km equatorial Minmus orbit. Launched on day 27. Arrived at Minmus on day 37. MinmusMiner I 149 parts, 70 tons. Currently docked at MinmusStation I. This was originally destined the be the fourth Miner on the Mun, but due to navigation error ended up here. Launched on day 31. MunMiner I 137 parts, 65 tons. Currently docked at MinmusStation I. This was transferred from the Mun because it was too unstable when landed. Launched on day 17 to the Mun. Transferred to Minmus on day 29, arrived on day 36. 'Icarus II' Minmus Lander 85 parts, 12 tons. Currently docked at MinmusStation I after a Sat repair contract and trip to the North Pole. This is a flight spare of Icarus as flown on the Maia stack to Moho. An Antlion and Scarab rover are also available for deployment by Icarus II. The grabbing unit of Antlion comes in real handy. Launched on day 33, arrived on day 40. 'Sandworm' Rover Prototype 123 parts, 49 tons, 2 crew. Recently landed in Lowlands for testing. This is the prototype of the Sandworm en route to Moho. Very compact for its capabilities (Lab, large ISRU, long range). Launched on day 39.

Ooh I like Retrofuturism! Maybe take a look at Popular Mechanics from back in the day to see how they imagined the future.

I started a new career game at the beginning of 2023, normal difficulty, stock + Breaking Ground. Here is an overview of the current status, you join me at the end of day 49. Y001D049H5M29 Funds: 9,081,558 (all building upgrades unlocked) Science: 4269 (everything researched) Reputation: 846 (148 contracts completed) Flights: 99 Assigned Kerbals: 58 Mun MunStation I Currently 768 parts, 248 tons, 7 crew. 55x56km equatorial Mun orbit. This was my first Station. First module was launched on day 7 (16.02.23). MunStation II Currently 485 parts, 163 tons, 2 crew. 55x56km equatorial Mun orbit on opposite side of MunStation I. This was split off from MunStation I on day 34 (02.04.23) in another attempt to get the frame rate back up. Mun Station 'Freia' Currently 361 parts, 119 tons, 4 crew. 56x53km polar Mun orbit. This is a prototype of Moho Exploration Stack 'Maia' being tested. Launched on day 30. MunMiner II 126 parts, 75 tons, 7 crew. Currently landed near Mun Arc to show 5 tourists the sights. Launched on day 19. MunMiner III 129 parts, 70 tons, 3 crew. Currently landed in Soutwest Crater on rover repair contract. This is much more stable when landed than MunMiner I or II. Launched on day 22. 'Samaritan' Refueling Rover 78 parts, 26 tons, 1 crew. The Samaritan design came in handy twice already to refuel Giraffa and Loki. Currently landed in Highlands to gather scans from large Mun craters. Launched on day 38. 'Teardrop 11' Shuttle 57 parts, 25 tons, 4 crew. Teardrop 11 is currently inbound from Minmus to MunStation I. On board is part of the original crew of MinmusBase I and a tourist. This was originally launched to Minmus on day 33.

Looks legit like a Soviet craft

Good that someone revived this challenge! I used FAT-455 Aeroplane Wings. 2x Thumpers for 8 sec boost on liftoff. Lift/Drag ratio ~ 14 at 60 m/s. Stall Speed ~ 20 m/s. I needed 4 attempts to stick the landing on the Island Airfield runway. I came in too quick and bounced of the runway - should have added some airbrakes. Handling is nice! Steam workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3037537556

Nice swarm! I like the formfactor of the sats. ___ I am building a mid-tech Mun miner. Requires Heavy Rocketry, Advanced Landing, Advanced Electrics, Specialized Construction and R&D 3 for Advanced Science Tech. Will cost about 102k and can carry 3 Kerbals and 1500 ore. The launcher turned out pretty sleek I think.

Actually this seems to work great. By now any pretenses about giving a f*** about part clipping are out of the window anyways. I will refine this design and get back to you I used alligator hinges in this 100 meter drop test. Make sure to disengage the motor and lock them before landing, or you will bounce like crazy. ___ In the meantime, here is the pure stock model. MoEM IX benefits from the findings of my test flight to Moho with MoEM VIII. It now seats three and has multiple other minor improvements. Art seduces, but does not exploit 'Skyfly XI' cargo SSTO can lift ~ 28 tons payload inside Mk2 bays to Kerbin orbit. 'Nuclear Interim Propulsion Stage' NIPS can transfer a ~12 ton lander from Kerbin to anywhere in the Kerbol system. 'Moho Excursion Module IX' MoEM is a compact lander with built in ISRU that works on most bodies except Eve, Tylo and Laythe. Skyfly XI + MoEM IX Total launch mass: 91.2 tons Total system price: 143,682 Delta-V: ~340m/s left in Skyfly in 100x100 km Kerbin orbit; 4300 m/s in NIPS for Moho Transfer; ~1450 m/s left in MoEM on arrival in 10x10 km Moho orbit I followed this guide to get a low energy transfer: https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/The_annual_and_reliable_Moho_Transfer_Opportunity Steam Workshop: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3036242416 Protocol of MoEM VIII Moho expedition:

I like to use names from mythology. E.g. Greek https://www.greeklegendsandmyths.com/a---atoz-greek-mythology.html Norse https://issuu.com/bloomsburypublishing/docs/glossary_extract/9 If you go for a Soviet feel maybe use Slavic names? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Slavic_deities If you look at real Soviet names they would probably have named it 'Minmus 1' or 'Minera 1' (analogues to Luna 1, Venera 1, Mars 1 etc).

@miklkit Thanks for the inspiration, I regard your quote as true even if Mk2 Moho Landers are possible - maybe the range problem can be solved by liberal part overlap, but the carrying capacity limits them to such a small footprint that they like to topple over.

Looks great! How did you implement the swing wings? I want to try swing wings on my next cargo SSTO to compensate for the shifting center of mass between takeoff and reentry.

If I ever run for office, can I retain you as Spin Doctor Hotel26?

I like the robotics parts, they enable completely new designs, but I guess you could use also use mods for this? Also, most basic functions for the actuators don't need a KAL-1000 program. You can just toggle between extended/retracted with an action group. You only need a program if multiple actuators need to run a timed sequence of actions. I like to share my designs on the workshop, so stuff built with stock + DLC might be more accessible than mods. My helicopters got not very far, but I made good use of the hinges and actuators. Here are some examples:

Congratulations on your discovery! Looks really cool. So a 324 ton "asteroid" hidden somewhere in the Kerbol system? Talk about a needle in the haystack

This prompted me to try to get a MK2 lander to Moho. The resulting flight of Skyfly XI and Moho Excursion Module VIII was successful. I wrote an essay on this trip and my thoughts on Mk2 landers, with lots of pictures. Please reply if you have cool Mk2 payloads! And I did NOT use an Orion Nuclear Pulse Engine, I swear!

This comment prompted me to revisit my designs for a Mk2 Moho Lander and do a full test flight. The (mediocre) results can be found below. Do you have a nifty Mk2 payload? Please reply below! ____ Skyfly XI + MoEM IX (Steam Workshop) The test flight of Skyfly XI + Moho Excursion Module VIII completed its objective to land on Moho, refuel with ISRU, and return to Moho orbit with enough fuel to land again. So the trip and biome hopping is doable, but landing and mining is a pain. And the route back to Kerbin by refueling NIPS in orbit is only a dim hope to keep morale up. Mk2 Advantages: - Moho mission with biome hopping possible. - Low launch mass and price. Full system price of Skyfly XI + MoEM VIII is only ~150,000; total launch mass 92 tons. - High recovery value. Only some small LF tanks are jettisoned during the whole mission. - Style bonus for using plane as first stage. Mk2 Disadvantages: - Mk2 form factor sucks -- Lander/Miner tends to get tall, skinny and top heavy, compounded by the small footprint of the landing legs. This makes it topple over easily. -- Can only fit a Convert-O-Tron 125, so refueling the Miner takes long (3 days with 5* engineer). -- Can not fit a lot of Kerbals on the Miner. -- No Lab possible. - Way back to Kerbin questionable. -- Miner can not transport a lot of excess LF to refuel NIPS (interplanetary transfer stage) in orbit. Many trips would be required. -- Landing on Moho with NIPS attached is impossible. - Part clipping can get borderline abusive. -- Staging of the NIPS tanks is very sketchy. Produces a lot of debris. -- Reactionless headbutt drive fixed in MoEM IX. - I was not able to make a Mk2 cargo spaceplane where the CoM does not shift massively between takeoff and reentry. -- CoL of Skyfly XI is tuned for takeoff; it needs to reenter retrograde tail first or it will go into a flat spin. Possible Improvements Some incremental improvements are made in MoEM IX. I managed to squeeze in two additional external seats. MoEM IX also has dedicated LF tanks to refuel NIPS. This lowers the available delta-v of the Miner to 2034 m/s (with full crew/cargo) which should be enough. But refueling NIPS would still take about 12 trips. And if you make an inefficient rendezvous you are stuck in orbit because the margins are low. So I will focus on flying the Compact Exploration System next. It should eliminate the main drawbacks like the wobbly Miner and missing lab thanks to the Mk3 form factor. I am also finalizing a new version of Valykrie Shuttle to maybe get Bobfel back. It is only sandbox, but still ... Moho Expedition Protocol I followed this guide to make a low energy transfer to Moho: https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/The_annual_and_reliable_Moho_Transfer_Opportunity Total transfer costs from 100x100 km Kerbin to 11x11 km Moho orbit: 4413 m/s (planned maneuvers)