Deadweasel

Expanding the thoughts on the mechanics side. So let's say a new ship's build cost (in time) will be some intially-large amount. Say, 150 ton vessel takes 20 hours of time to build. Each launch of that same design afterward takes less time because the design is already known and tested. Now what happens if you change a couple of struts on that ship? Doesn't it become a "new" design, costing another 20 hours all over again? If not, is there a percentage you can change before it's considered new? How will the player know what changes are about to cost him/her a lot more time to launch? What determines the time cost? Just general part count? Monetary cost of parts involved? Also, how will the player be able to know how much a design will cost just to test launch, and how will they be able to know what that cost will do to other flights already in-progress? The concept of a launch costing time potentially introduces a lot of additional work with how the player interacts with the game, what information is presented, and where it's presented. This is the kind of information that is currently only produced with maneuver nodes and mods like Kerbal Alarm clock, both of which have their functionality based pretty much solely in Map view. If a launch is going to cost time in the future (at the time of launch), then some things would have to be adapted to give the player more information in advance, or it's going to become too difficult to manage more than one active flight at a time, which would be a big impediment to players who have already come to know this game as offering a great deal more capability than that.

*cough* So you did! Sorry I missed that part. >_>

Thank you very much! It actually doesn't require a major lifter to get it up to orbit; it only requires four of the biggest SRBs in the B9 pack, and two sets of four of the small vanilla SRBs. The main engine does the bulk of the work, but because it's prone to overheating quickly in atmosphere, it's a very slow, arduous launch. Once up, since it's also a fueling station, it has two options to continue on: Recharge the tanks with its own fuel converters (Fueltastic mod), which is very time-consuming, or Dock with OFS Oklahoma and refuel from there if time is more critical Part counts are a bit high while loaded, thanks to the four Kurb Burners and two Sherpa dropships. Without cargo the Bruin is a "measly" 180 or so parts, but loaded as she was for this particular flight, I think it was about 587. Yes, getting there was a painstaking lesson in patience, but now that it's parked, and once two of the rovers and the dropships have been deployed to the surface, frame rates will jump up substantially. (Incidentally, part count is a major reason why the crew housing and drive ring were separated from Venture upon arrival. The drive ring's count of 212 alone brought the ship's total to 652, but was redundant once Venture was on-station for the Duna Explorer mission anyway)

...which will then create a demand for banks to be implemented (so they can be robbed) or weapons to become part of stock (because war is profitable). No way in heck am I abandoning my fleet! /totally tongue-in-cheek here

Actually, (and not to de-rail your point in any way) there wasn't a spaceplane hangar at the time precisely because there were no plane parts. C7 was instrumental in starting the whole plane craze, which garnered notice, got him hired on, and which then required someplace to allow you to use those plane parts in a more intuitive way than the VAB allowed for. Boom: Space Plane Hangar. Essentially that feature only came to be when somebody came around and introduced an idea that pretty much demanded one. I agree with your sentiment otherwise, though. Saying that something shouldn't be introduced because there's no (obvious) mechanic for it is a little weird. That's pretty much how this game came to be, isn't it? I mean, there was no obvious way to build different rockets designs and fire them skyward with rampant abandon, so somebody MADE it. All there was before was Orbiter, which isn't nearly as approachable as this game has turned out to be. All that said, I have to appreciate OP's question, as much as I might be against the idea personally. It's a unique idea and does certainly garner some active thought and discussion, regardless of what direction the devs choose to take in the meantime.

I have loved this game through every iteration. Okay, well maybe not through the bugged releases that required a quick .01 patch, but the new additions and adjustments have always been exciting to me, even if they weren't immediately (reliably) playable. Looking back through the years (wow, hard to believe I can actually use that word with a GAME), I realize I have kind of grown to enjoy the game from different angles over time. Initially it was the coolness of the aspect of building rockets Lego-style and seeing what they did (and how spectacularly they could go oh so very wrong), but progressed into an exploration phase, where I ventured forth to investigate some of these new planets and moons that had been added. Since those days, I have only been to a few of the possible destinations, but my play style has evolved into one more based on imagination, and one that makes more of an event out of reaching a given destination, almost savoring the achievement by taking the trip into exasperating detail. Sure, I could probably drop a micro probe to every planet and moon and that's that. But, something in me wanted to make these explorations every bit as grand and broad in the game as they would be in real life, so going to Duna became this intricate, multi-part mega mission, filled with planning and designing for a deployable base, rovers, interactive means to deliver them to the ground (beyond just popping chutes and calling it a day), and building the means to get it all there. So far, I've been getting a lot of enjoyment out of going just getting to a place that others have been to many times. As the saying goes: "It's not the destination that matters; it's the journey." So my question to everyone is: what flips your switch for you in this game? Is it the rampant "build it and see what it does" construction? Is it the challenge of getting to new places just to say you can do it? Is it some kind of running internal stream of consciousness thing where you're imagining what it might be like to be doing that very thing in real life as you do it? Or is it something else?

Honestly, I think costs alone will be enough of a limitation in this regard, especially in light of the fact that the game has been so successful in its current form. Even if the sandbox mode remained unfettered, people would still like the challenge of the Career mode, and the current direction it's taking is looking promising for offering that challenge. That said, the one thing that has never been influenced in either mode is the time represented in designing and building your crafts, which I think would have been a big frustration and one of the major call-outs by players if it had been around in the earlier versions. If build time were implemented in career mode, without the option to turn it off, it could prove to be cumbersome enough to some players to avoid career mode altogether at the least, or the entire game at the worst, which would be an absolute shame after seeing what kind of incredible following it has been generating so far. Also: I think there's an angle here for NOT including it that hasn't been called out. When we're playing this game, designing, building, testing and flying ships and planes, sometimes multiple vessels at once, we're actually taking the roles of what would require many people in many departments and disciplines at one time. Forcing the build to take time just seems out of place, next to the fact that it's possible to actually "fly" to any ship anywhere in the system and control it directly in the blink of an eye. Where does one draw the line between fun playability, and becoming a tedious detail management simulator ala Orbiter or *shudder* The Sims?

The way I'm seeing it being implemented here (and the way I think was originally suggested) is not that you're being forced to actually wait through an amount of time for a ship to be built, but that the time is automatically added to the clock as a kind of "penalty". So you don't actually have to wait for those hours for your ship to be ready, but it costs you those hours nonetheless, which will have an affect on other missions already in-flight.

What if someone were to work out how much those EVA'd kerbals weigh, THEN create a dupe version of the control chair, but with mass increased AS IF THERE WERE A KERBAL IN IT? That way you could get the CoM indicator to work for a seated pilot, and once it's all balanced out, swap it for the regular one before launch. EDIT: Quickest way I can think of is a chair on a pod, check the (i) tab in Map view. EVA the pilot to sit in the pod, check the (i) in Map view again.

Yes. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/778-We-all-like-a-little-bit-about-Austin-Powers?highlight=austin+powers /hole-in-one

There's a reason I never got into any of the Sim stuff. It gets tedious having to micro-manage every little cotton-picking detail, right down to worrying about the passage of time for events. I already have that concern where planetary encounters or rendezvousesess are concerned, and money/science/limited quantities for parts are already apparently on the way (going by what's already visible in the game elements); why the heck would I want to have to start dealing with this other new detail too? Some things like hiring new recruits, deciding who gets to fly a mission (which will be cool if/when the kerbals' stats actually have an effect in some way other than their animations), and now spending science "points" to research new components, those are the kinds of things that are kind of an unconscious expectation (for me, at least). The one question I have never asked myself is "why didn't all this other stuff happen while I was busy so long in the VAB?" Also: how would you propose to check on a ship's progress? There's no Map view in VAB or SPH, meaning you'd have to save your work, back out and go to Tracking Station, then back out and into the VAB/SPH and re-load your work-in-progress. Given the current state of loading between scenes, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say "AWW HELL NAW!" EDIT: And before somebody phones in the obvious "just make a shortcut key like m work in the VAB too", I want to say that there's a reason there's a Tracking Station to go to in the first place, and that doing so could create all kinds of fallout with players who check the map while in the VAB, then accidentally Switch To another craft, only to discover their work in there is just... gone.

Something like this? Other than that, yeah... Pickings are a little slim for something so specific where this game is concerned.

[TABLE=width: 800] <tbody>[TR] [TD]Spent a large portion of the day designing and testing a solution for the Duna Explorer mission, which is stalled thanks to a flaw in the rover design that interferes with the dropship's engines in hover mode. The rover only needed a minor addition to compensate for its positioning under the dropship that causes it to block thrust and knock the assembled vehicles off-balance, vertically. The dropship itself was also improved to provide more directional torque. After all the modifications and testing and re-balancing, it came time to send them off to Venture to allow the mission to resume. The last thing I wanted to do was try sending another IPEV platform out there, though. Those things aren't really good for interplanetary runs without the drive sled, and would require another mission setup as long and complicated as Venture's itself had been before the mission set off. I needed something more purpose-built for the cargo, and able to get there under its own power. Enter LRCV 101-A "Bruin", a cargo and supply vessel designed for delivery of potentially complex equipment layouts to remote orbital locations, and loitering to act as a static supply and refueling station. Bruin features a single simple cargo "spine" that is uniquely configured according to the cargo it will haul. In this case, it carries four Kurb Burner rovers for one-time deployment (two for the Duna Explorer Mission, and two to be deployed at another destination yet to be determined. But wait! What about the modified dropship? Oh yeah, those are coming too. Yes, "those". As balance is critical, as well as mission flexibility, Bruin will be carrying two of the latest Sherpa dropship designs along with it, to replace the single older model version Venture currently carries. Due to the sensitive nature of the cargo frame, the Sherpas are required to power down all thrusters and control systems to prevent the Bruin's computer from assuming control of them and introducing unwanted movement. Equipment all stowed and secured, Bruin departs, sent on its way by a rare eclipse (ha). The Duna encounter wasn't quite as spot-on as the mission planners had hoped, coming in over the poles, but the ship's powerful engines made quick work of final capture and orbital alignment. Once on-station, matching its orbit to roughly that of Venture, it's time to begin supply operations. The procedure begins with activation and launching of both Sherpas, which link up to keep the local space as uncluttered as possible for the next stage. After spending months enclosed within Bruin's protected hold, the cargo is exposed to the sun, allowing the rovers time to begin charging and the crew to begin integrity inspections. The second compartment was also opened, in the event one or more of the rovers experienced damage during the transit, allowing the transfer crew to pull from one of the spares. Like a giant present, Bruin unwraps its gift of Kurb Burners and Sherpa dropships, now properly tested for deployment on the surface of Duna. [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE]

It's based on general design, what's controlling it, and where it is when it "wakes up". BUT, if the game gets it wrong after deploying a probe, undocking a shuttle or whatever, just right click on the controlling pod/probe core and select Rename Vessel. You can change its name and its icon to whatever you like there.

Wow... Looks like an epic battle to the death happening over there. That's what happens when you get a hungry seaplane too near its prey. >_<

Awww... Freaking licensing issue... Man, how is it possible to be able to code together something that complex and still completely overlook the rules that govern their submission in the first place?

There aren't enough folks out there referring to it as "KSP" for Google to get a good idea what you mean. I've figured out that if you want the most relevant results, you have to use the full name first.

Mine is currently attempting to hold his crewmate Bob back from making yet another futile attempt to drop a rover on Duna, using a dropship that can't hover due to interference from said rover. -__- I think Bob has spent a little too much time with Jeb on that trip.

Since .8.1 (I think)... Let's just say waaaay back. ...and I'm an immature 39, still loving the hell out of this game!

Oh! You might be looking for this, then: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56993-Krag-s-Planet-Factory-New-Planets Side note: really loving the custom search of these forums for things like this. Can't recommend doing that enough to other Chrome users! "KSPF: [search term]" == More accurate results than the forums' crappy keyword-based search.

What mod? You can edit [CONIC_PATCH_DRAW_MODE = 3] to be 0 in your settings.cfg. Or, if you want a mod to make it easy to switch between the modes, go get Maneuver Nodes Improvement (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/maneuver-node-improvement/) or PreciseNode (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/47863-0-22-PreciseNode-0-5-Interplanetary-Maneuver-Node-Assistant)

Approved. Agents with eels or snakes will be shot on sight.

I'm kind of starting to get on this small thing bandwagon, though I do still build massive ships to carry them. I just carry MORE of them now. My first awesome rover was this big bad boy: But later I wanted something more compact, that didn't require an entire cargo bay and an elaborate system to mount and deploy it. So I create this little guy: Interestingly, the little Kurb Burner is more fun to drive at that size. It's a bit like comparing this... ...to this

On that note: something I discovered about this latest update. Hack Gravity is now persistent across launches. Used to be it reset if you left one ship and launched another. Now it stays on until specifically turned off. I ran into this after using the hack to test out a docking arrangement ground-side, then afterward switching over to a ship in orbit. I warped ahead so I could de-orbit it in daylight, but even though I was warping at 50x, the ship wasn't going anywhere relative to the ground. The surface speed read a paltry 250m/s, and yet there I was in an indicated stable orbit.... ????? I turned the ship and burned retrograde, and it was on a de-orbit trajectory in much shorter time than I expected. Eventually, I figured out what was going on when I shrugged it off, went back to do some stage testing, and the staged components just... hovered. O_o *derp*

[TABLE=width: 800] <tbody>[TR] [TD]Hehehehe yes it is a Procedural Fairings cover, which protects the Cardinal research station until deployment. And on that note: IPEV 104-C "Venture" departed for Duna last night. With almost 800 parts, the trip was... shall we say, less than smooth. >_> Otherwise, she flew quite welll. The two minute-long burn completed, the next order of business was to inspect the Kurb Burners to determine how they'd fared during the exceptional G-forces of the maneuver. Bob, already riding "outside" as the Sherpa pilot, was tasked with the inspection. He wasn't too pleased to be outside of his comfort zone. "Rovers are secure, all systems blue," Bob called out to the observation camera, "Can I go back to my comfy seat now?" "Negative, Bird Dog," mission commander Bilster's reply sounded flatly over the comms. "Come back to quarters. There's some hot koffee brewing, and Jeb's next on the rotation for the vehicle bay." "Alright, but I hope you guys aren't hogging all the snacks. Hey! Is that MY Kit Kat bar?!" The crew rotation completed without further issues, and Venture settled in for the long journey ahead, navigation lights glaring brightly to make it easy for amateur astronomers on the ground to spot her and add their own well wishes for a successful mission. Three days later, the mission crossed the Kerbin escape terminus. "Well fellas," mission navigator and engineer Herfurt announced to the crew as he ran through Venture's standby configuration checklist, "flight profile is still nominal, and we're officially 'no return' now. Everybody wave, this is the last we'll see of home for a few years." Bilster swallowed a lump that had formed in his throat and keyed in the Mission Kontrol channel. "Kontrol, Venture. Duna Explorer is away." "Venture, congratulations and safe travels. Get some rack, we'll keep an eye on things from here." "Kopy that, Venture clear." Herfurt finished his checklist, configuring the ship for low power, putting her to sleep for the night while the crew enjoyed 12 hours of much needed rest. Four months later, all continued to proceed as planned. Each day had been packed with internal activity, as the mission specialists Merfred and Jebediah tended to their experiments and research equipment in the lab, while Bob and Herfurt took turns repeatedly checking the condition of the stowed vehicles and other equipment in the vehicle bay. Bilster keyed up the shipwide channel, and brought all activity to an immediate halt with a simple breathless phrase. "Guys, check port side." There, gleaming in the far distance, was the destination so many had devoted their lives to reaching: Duna. Though the crew was small, the cheers and applause that flooded the channel was deafening. Four days after crossing into Duna's gravitational pull, all hands were on deck and strapped in for Venture's insertion into orbit. Kontrol had recommended they skip a planned mid-course maneuver to reduce their accumulated velocity at this stage to minimize stress on the hull and equipment, so this burn would be longer than their departure had been. As everyone awaited the moment when Venture's engines again roared to life, excitement and tension filled the bridge and crew quarters. Bob, back in his cozy dropship cockpit once again, munched on krackers distractedly, a thick constellation of crumbs all around him. Suddenly a deep rumble began. Everybody braced. Bob slapped his helmet shut, an instant before his attending cloud of crumbs shot backward in the cockpit, showering him. Venture began to shed its speed with flaming, violent fervor. For over four minutes, the vessel vibrated and rattled under its engines' fury. In the lab, an overlooked beaker broke from its velkro keeper and flew into the rear bulkhead, there to shatter into myriad pieces. To the crew aboard, those four minutes were an eternity, each hoping their particular portion of the mission equipment survived the deceleration burn intact. Bob hoped he'd be able to clear out the crumbs before Jeb's turn came up. Eventually the engines fell silent once again, followed immediately by Bilster on the shipwide: "Crew of IPEV Venture, welcome to Duna." Once more, the hulls rang with deafening cheers and congratulations. Over the course of the next day, Venture committed a series of small correction burns to achieve a stable and predictable orbit, after which the crew paused to take in another long rest period to prepare them for the feverish activity to come. After all were refreshed and ready, the arrival activities began. Venture's cramped corridors and airlocks were bustling and busy, while the bridge crew focused on recharging the ship's engines and fuel supplies for delivery maneuvers. Finally, it came time for the crew to transfer to the Vehicle bay quarters, in preparation for Venture's rending. The mission specialists moved over first... ...followed by Herfurt, who choked up a little as he bade his commander and best friend goodbye for the next few years. Bilster was to pilot the drive ring back home to Kerbin, after a week-long loiter period in a higher orbit. Finally, all was ready for the last equipment transfer, and Sherpa took flight to retrieve the Kurb Burners from storage, to be re-positioned in the vehicle bay temporarily before final deployment. Piloting as skillfully and professionally as ever, (aside from the moment when he was out of camera range long enough to pop his canopy and evacuate all the crumbs), Bob completed the rover transfer quickly, and signaled the all-clear to Bilster, who called back his farewell and thumbed a blinking red toggle on the docking control panel. IPEV Venture broke in two. Bilster wasted little time nudging the crew and drive section -now reverted to its standalone designation of "Journeyman"- to its new higher parking orbit, there to remain for a few days until his return departure window to Kerbin had arrived. Meanwhile, Bob was already engrossed with the first mission deployment activity: delivery of the first Kurb Burner mobile science platform to the surface of Duna. The Sherpa's cargo safely secured, Bob turned retrograde and began the deorbit burn, gripping the controls suddenly more firmly as the vessel threatened to swing away from him. "Whoa!" he called out," this thing was not balanced properly for lateral flight!" "How bad is it?" Jeb answered, concern evident over the comm. "I got it," Bob replied easily, "just didn't expect it to kick out like that. ASAS is doing pretty good, but I can't really burn hard enough unless I'm pulling back hard on the stick at the same time." Jeb looked uneasily at his crewmates, strapped in at their terminals in the vehicle bay's drop pod. The Sherpa's bad handling with its load in lateral flight mode didn't bode well for the planned hover transition and delivery. Bob was oblivious to their concern. "You guys should see this. It's amazing," he whispered just loudly enough for his mic to pick out his voice over the rumble of the Sherpa's engines. <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zZIIuJ6VXr-3NtwQ8X99aR4xQ2jlBhG0L0Q2D0PR3Dc?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8KXENce2ezs/Un68jTh4tCI/AAAAAAAAXck/xfPnnKfun8o/s800/screenshot263.png" height="450" width="800" /></a> Minutes later, the dropship was committed to its descent, and Bob initiated the transition to hover mode to prepare for braking. He opened the throttle a bit to test the handling. A look of concern crossed his features, and he bumped the throttle some more, and then again yet more. "Guys," he called back, "we uh... We have a problem here. I'm not getting any vector change in hover mode, and I'm at quarter-throttle." "Give it more," Jeb responded, "maybe the rover's frame is interfering." "Kopy that," Bob affirmed, and pushed the throttle wide open. Nothing happened, save for the sudden and loud groan that issued through the Sherpa's frame. Bob's grip on the controls tightened reflexively, and he peered downward through the canopy before easing back the throttle into shutdown. "Okay, you were right Jeb. All I'm doing is pushing against the rover. It's not doing a thing with my forward momentum, but it's straining the hell out of the dock. If I keep pushing it, she'll break right off." "Krap. Abort the drop," Jeb ordered, "come back and we'll work out a fix for this." "Unable abort," Bob replied tightly. "I'm on terminal descent, and this pig can't push hard enough to escape again in lateral mode without tumbling out of control." "That's the only mode your engines are effective in," Jeb answered. "Drop the rover. We've got another to work with." Bob shook his head. "I got this. I can use RCS and lateral mode to come in retro. It'll be clumsy but I'm sure it'll work." "You need to be absolutely sure about this, Bob. By the time you can determine if it'll work, it'll be too late to abort in any way." "I'm all over it," Bob answered confidently. He leveled the engines again, turned retrograde and began decelerating even as the ground visibly rushed to meet him. He pushed ever-harder on the stick as he nudged the throttle further, edging closer to the point at which the ship would begin to flip under the uneven forces acting upon it. The ground proximity alert sounded, and Bob rammed the throttle full at the last moment, but... ....to be [f9]-ed....[/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE]