colmo

I'll see how many viable designs I can cook up then.

I need to refit a few designs and ping them your way. Could even submit 2 if you need extras - you can always pit them against each other in the first round

Genius. I suggested fractions of ammo cans (assuming 4 points is for a full can, you can cut a quarter of the capacity per point). It's too late for this one, but is it worth considering?

I thought your costings looked pretty good. Meanwhile, Bahamuto is a machine: I'm heading out to watch the Perseids meteor shower, so if someone could try this out and report back, would be appreciated. - - - Updated - - - The stack nodes, new countermeasures and radomes probably mean every plane will need a redesign.

Just when we were starting to settle on a points scheme, the balance shifts. Interesting requiring the radome - I understand there's a benefit to beyond 3.5km guard range using it, as well as for using AMRAAMs? Guns are next to useless at the moment, you might want to wait for Baha's next update.

They only work in non-legacy mode, then the guns don't work. As it is, we can't use this version, but I expect the next few will sort it. Guard reaction to team switching is a pain, you have to wait for both to be airborne before switching the second one. Meanwhile, I sorted an arena Setup Air Race, and add the following Instances to the ksairracelaunch1.cfg: Ideally I should set it up where there are no other Kerbinside objects, or remove them, but that's awkward to do. Instances { CelestialBody = Kerbin RadialPosition = 157203.5,-1374.481,-574662.1 Orientation = 0,1,0 RadiusOffset = 64.78484 RotationAngle = 180.8 RefLatitude = -0.132183576370081 RefLongitude = 285.299418536003 VisibilityRange = 25000 Group = Ungrouped LaunchSiteName = Team 1 Wingman LaunchSiteDescription = No description available. LaunchSiteType = ANY Category = Other OpenCost = 0 CloseValue = 0 OpenCloseState = Open FacilityType = None CustomInstance = True LaunchRefund = 0 RecoveryFactor = 50 RecoveryRange = 100000 LaunchPadTransform = ksairracelaunch1_spawn } Instances { CelestialBody = Kerbin RadialPosition = 157215.5,-1188.481,-574769.1 Orientation = 0,1,0 RadiusOffset = 64.88483 RotationAngle = 180.8 RefLatitude = -0.114275623855832 RefLongitude = 285.297817541944 VisibilityRange = 25000 Group = Ungrouped LaunchSiteName = Team 1 Lead LaunchSiteDescription = No description available. LaunchSiteType = ANY Category = Other OpenCost = 0 CloseValue = 0 OpenCloseState = Open FacilityType = None CustomInstance = True LaunchRefund = 0 RecoveryFactor = 50 RecoveryRange = 100000 LaunchPadTransform = ksairracelaunch1_spawn } Instances { CelestialBody = Kerbin RadialPosition = 157163.5,-81.4812,-574741.1 Orientation = 0,1,0 RadiusOffset = 64.88508 RotationAngle = 360 RefLatitude = -0.00783517791621188 RefLongitude = 285.293699224681 VisibilityRange = 25000 Group = Ungrouped LaunchSiteName = Team 2 Wingman LaunchSiteDescription = No description available. LaunchSiteType = ANY Category = Other OpenCost = 0 CloseValue = 0 OpenCloseState = Open FacilityType = None CustomInstance = True LaunchRefund = 0 RecoveryFactor = 50 RecoveryRange = 100000 LaunchPadTransform = ksairracelaunch1_spawn } Instances { CelestialBody = Kerbin RadialPosition = 157258.5,68.5188,-574669.1 Orientation = 0,1,0 RadiusOffset = 64.78511 RotationAngle = 360 RefLatitude = 0.00658921899086962 RefLongitude = 285.304340197405 VisibilityRange = 25000 Group = Ungrouped LaunchSiteName = Team 2 Lead LaunchSiteDescription = No description available. LaunchSiteType = ANY Category = Other OpenCost = 0 CloseValue = 0 OpenCloseState = Open FacilityType = None CustomInstance = True LaunchRefund = 0 RecoveryFactor = 50 RecoveryRange = 100000 LaunchPadTransform = ksairracelaunch1_spawn }

They may not be configured for career - 5m parts often aren't without modification to the tree. You can always add them to the nodes you think suit them best, with just Notepad.

The purpose of these early contests is to hammer out a consensus. The WW2 thread has taken the idea and run with it, more power to them. It's natural that early rules will miss obvious loopholes or have grey areas. As long as everyone is content, that's the main thing. I would like some more engine options, currently the Turbofan is it - the basic jet got needed to oblivion and weighs almost as much, yet lacks gimballing, and the Rapier is worse in all respects unless we allow oxidiser. However, going beyond stock is a whole new ballgame so we make do for now. - - - Updated - - - *nerfed. The basic jet does has tremendous ISP but I don't think its high mass allows lower fuel mass to compensate enough to match the TWRs the turbofan can manage.

Bahamuto D posted about an issue with turret accuracy, which might explain why the guns have become so ineffective. Heatseekers are much more compelling now, seem less likely to be wasted shooting at planes approaching the merge fast. I haven't begun to play with radar, but that's a whole rock-paper-scissors game all by itself.

And another update!

I've been trying out the latest version of BD Armory (0.9.2 with legacy targeting) and things have changed. Guns appear less effective, heatseekers more so (I don't believe AI knows how to use radar guided missiles yet). It needs more testing to figure out all the changes that impact us. E.g. When setting off a contest by switching one plane to Team B, it's best to wait until the wingman is in the air before switching them to Team B too. Otherwise, s/he stops for a moment. I was testing against the Double Down gunboat, and it appeared to have lost efficacy with it's GAU gun, and become easier to hit with missiles. My very fast single-engine jet was romping home, apart from the times it played chicken and drew the tie with a mutual wipeout in a head-on crash! The AI has one new setting - take-off speed. Default is 70 but some planes might manage better with less. It seems to determined when the plane starts to pull up after take-off.

I've spent a few hours tooling around with KerbinSide (it's been a while, everything looks so much better than it did!), and was wondering where these big bridges where (in the Air Race pack, d'oh!). I note instances of statics are saved in the static's .cfg. The consequence of this is they appear in all saves, which is fine if using the KS pack as-is (indeed helpful if I start tweaking the sites to work in medium terrain quality, high quality is beyond my old PC's capability, so there's a lot of clipping and dead ends), but it's a bit of a pain if you want to start with a blank slate and DIY your own. I presume this is how Konstructs organises things? Much like the Air Race, I'm interested in constructing combat arenas for my 2v2 dogfights. There's some lovely assets in there that could make a nice centrepiece, for just such an arena. I'm of a mind to find the less or completely unused ones and have a stab at designing new bases.

From my limited knowledge of military aviation, this is a debate in real life too. I suspect danderouspeople1's planes were far too stable (lawn darts), my current generation of fighters are just about stable, and the next ones I do I'll be going for fully unstable designs. I want to take out that Double Down with something that looks like a plane! All good advice. I've been using V-tails but have noticed accuracy isn't brilliant, which supports point #1.

This is what EPL has been crying out for. What's the minimum required files from EPL? I don't want to go hunting hexcans! Might I suggest a launch platform for rovers and planes too, something you can roll a craft off? Many moons ago I suggested a 'use once' foundation; the purpose is to build permanent structures - the part becomes part of the structure it 'launches', is depleted and not used again. All they'd need is something to get them nice and level, and the KAS ground anchor function to attach them to the terrain - can't have buildings sliding around when we bump into them, can we?

When I started this format, I thought it was intuitively obvious what parts were OK to clip, and what was not. Evidently not. If you want more engines, then you have to pay the design penalty of increased fuselage size and drag. I thought engine clipping had been clearly ruled out earlier in the thread but perhaps the OP needed to be updated. I'd suggest that parts you can't clip are engines, cockpits (or at least their glass canopy), or fuel tanks with other fuel tanks. Parts that make sense to clip - structural, intakes, fuel tanks (as long as not with other fuel tanks, unless one is drained of fuel). For guns, as long as the muzzle is not clipped, and missiles you obviously don't want to clip!

Poor Bob. He had to try flying without the benefit of a plane. The jet contests are heavily influenced by minimum altitudes, frequently set to very low values.

Little wonder it was outpaced. It was lugging 4 tonnes.

I loved this one. I've never seen them collide...from behind. The Hobgoblin must have serious TWR to chase down the Budgie like that (have I got them the right way round? I think videos need a little intro to let people know what plane is what and by whom.) It was also a useful test of whether high altitude was a cheaty exploit. It assuredly was not.

To start your search, look up 'relaxed stability'. Then start fiddling with the AI controls until your plane almost, but not quite, falls out of the sky.

+1. The ability to progrom them (even if it's just a persistence file edit) would be valuable for a few challenges I have in mind...and possibly by YouTubers looking for multiple takes of the same scene.

We can use the new version, we just have to turn on the legacy targeting mode.

I misunderstood jettison and the AI can't cope with missiles ATM. That is a bit of a damper for our purposes, though we can go back to old method.

It can't control independent parts, such as a Mk2 cargo bay. I'm guessing this can. Edit: I guessed wrong.

I saw a WIP radar nosecone for fighters. Is that in the update? It looked very nice. The AWACs dish is fascinating, how to use that in full AI scenarios...?

Looking forward to it. For the moment, I'm hoping the new guidance systems make missiles more interesting in AI dogfighting - in the last version, it was very much about the dakka. - - - Updated - - -