GROOV3ST3R

Hey Kyrian, good to see you back Once 1.1 hits, we're in for a good time haha As far as it used to be, camber almost always resulted in making things infinitely more unstable, but i'll give some a go and see if a little stance can make things better.

I'm trying to bring my car to 1.1 spec, it's bang on with weight but is actually slower than my old one for straight line speed?.... It's to do with more/larger parts that need shrouding and aerodynamics. So it only does 22m/s without boost (up to 25m/s due to L2 wheel derp). But 2 tanks and 10 thrusters will see it to nearly 46m/s or so - and make it damn near impossible to turn a corner without flipping. 1.1 can't come soon enough. I want proper handling wheels, badly.

[quote name='RevanCorana']I have a frame in mind to test out. If it's good I'll make an attempt Very nice buggies Groov3st3r btw :D[/QUOTE] Thanks :3 Cubic struts are brilliant for sculpting neat looking spaceframes and they weigh next to nothing :3 500kg would make a small difference but it would count ;) How do you count weight then? With RCS loaded or empty? Because that counts for a lot. I'll go and get mechjeb for 1.1 after it's released.

As it turned out, M1 wheels must have gotten nerfed or something because my racecar suddenly became slow as... :S Here's the new one: [spoiler=BOXX CART MK3] [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/Bm780O.jpg[/img] [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/908/VLgS8J.jpg[/img] [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/zv0y1J.jpg[/img] [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/qt7rnl.jpg[/img] [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/K0Rp0R.jpg[/img] [/spoiler] I've added some lights and 1.5 tonnes of steel to the chassis as ballast. Measured with space engineer it weighs in at 3003 KG dry, unless i could shave off about 250kg if total weight includes RCS. L2 wheels do seem a bit quicker now but still not what I'd hope for. I still think we should lower the mass criteria by at least 1 tonne as it took a silly amount of pocket I-beams to bring it up to 3t :S 6 RCS Thrusters go through the tank quite efficiently but still don't give me nearly as much boost as they used to. Under it's own power and fully loaded it will do 22m/s with no RCS boost - curious to see what other people can get up to. I can't afford to lower my downforce any more as it's already getting a tad unstable in chicanes. What are your views on use of RTGs? We didn't use to use any so I'm just using batteries and panels instead. EDIT: Still experimenting with wing angles and wheelbase, it's getting better now. My wing setup is much less aggressive, upping the top speed under wheel power to 22.4m/s.

Yay for seated drivers :3 I think ultimately lighter cars mean faster lap times and more challenging competition in terms of driving. I'd like to see how the new wheels will perform - and if they're better, we might just have to make the switch. As for size limitations, I'd say you could just pick a MK3 cargo bay of desired length and state that vehicles must be able to drive in/out of the bay under their own power and must fit entirely inside of the cargo bay - i.e. no parts protruding outside the bay in any of the 6 directions. That would very nicely take care of size limitations as everyone has that same cargo bay and it also forces people to think how they will use their wings and spoilers so that they fit inside of that box. Beyond that, the actual amount of wings and their placement is up to you/them to regulate/figure out (we spent too much time overly complicating all the rules and ended up a tad confusing). (That would also allow you to make a cargo plane and fly the rover+crew to an off-site location i.e. dirt runway, mountain ranges, another island/continent or even ice caps or old KSC for a special stage). As for design and creativity, we never had too many issues with crafts looking the same. Yes, people hear the word ''Formula'' and make an F1 car but we had some really nice and surprisingly fast submissions. Here's one of my most recent ultralight race cars, the Boxx Cart EVO. [img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/7VgvKD.png[/img] Perfect for day races :P I can always lay some ballast in to add the extra 2 tonnes and swap the wheels out or start from scratch. It's near enough a year old design now, a lot has changed. (screen Nov 28th 2014)

Here we go again... xD I do prefer the regular rover wheels to be honest, they have more in terms of actual suspension and are MUCH smoother than the MK2's. There's reasons why we limited Kyrian GP to using them. Other than that, 3 tons is a bit much :P my old racing design barely pushed 1 tonne dry. I'll give it a crack though.

Glad we still got fan support Well, I'll think about it and the logistics of it. I had an idea of opening all races at the same time and collecting times for each race however people see fit - so if they wanted to, they could sacrifice a few hours and do the whole thing in one go instead of having to wait for several weeks to do a few laps. This would also impose a time window for people to complete races in if they want to be counted towards the championship - with races outside of this limit being counted as practice and could count towards lap records but not leaderboard standings. The actual race length probably wouldn't change - I like the current tracks, they keep it challenging and interesting but at the same time aren't TOO long. We could limit it to a set number of races as well, with 1 all-out drag race on the runway, 1 point-to-point and 3 regular races. Lots of ideas and logistics going on in my head right now. Some could be tricky to implement but I wont say too much yet. As for rules, we will need the usual weight restrictions, wheel restrictions, RCS regulations and lifting surface restrictions. I'm thinking of allowing ''KERS'' or otherwise moving control surfaces with groups because new physics SHOULD keep infinigliding at bay. Beyond that, I need to do some testing on the old cubic struts to see whether they are still an exploit they used to be for ultralight, drag-less space frames. And some ACTUAL trophy signatures would be nice too (sadly, my Imageshack account isn't premium anymore because my paypal was blocked - never try to log into paypal through your phone! - so I'd have to find an alternative hosting method for any pins and signs)

I think if we were to restart this challenge - and I do miss racing around KSC - it would need to be a little shorter and more exciting for contestants. We usually run out of interest by race 3, with a lot of people on the leaderboards not submitting their entries at all. Gaps between stages are too long as well :S Then, once it's up and running, we have to fit it around our daily schedules - and sometimes there are other things that take priority. I'm considering a more compact version of this challenge. Since we have a new aero model, it would be a little bit more interesting - and standard parts have a lot more options and tweakables now too. I think the goal is to keep it simple and accessible - maybe even do away with any plugins and instead focus on a checkpoint based race with physical gates or cones to pass around.

Trying to force a heavy VTOL carrying passengers to do a lap of Kerbin is like shooting yourself in the foot a day before a marathon. It's heavy so it needs thrust to get it up to speed. Because of that, it drinks fuel like crazy at lower altitudes and has trouble climbing higher than 19km with any reliability. Sitting too low wastes fuel and burns slowly heats up vital components. Sitting high deprives it of oxygen. And all in the name of vanity. Here is where I am at right now - a significant departure from the original format, that's for sure.

Thanks mate I did actually run into issues just with realizing the VTOL concept itself - I made it fairly long, with a passenger bay so that I can also carry a few extra kerbals along. This, coupled with the MK2-to-engine connector at the back, presented a bit of a dilemma - bay with the vertical engines wasn't perfectly centred in the craft and so centre of gravity has an annoying tendency to shift as it depletes. Interestingly enough, running on the main engine the craft uses fuel from one tank at a time and using supports, it uses all fuel tanks simultaneously (because of ''radial'' mounts as opposed to a stack). I did however had to extend the craft with 2 extra cores for that little bit extra reaction wheel power to control it when hovering. Their weight alone helped balance it a bit.I also placed 4 strategic RCS tanks in the bay and decided to use it as ballast - with the tail of the plane being filled constantly with RCS fuel and middle tanks always being 50% empty for minute corrections to my COG. And to shift all of that mass, I had to use 4 engines in the bay, 2 mounted to the bay and 2 mounted to the inside walls of the bay and then ''offset'' to merge with the original engines. This allowed me to have 4 engines in a space of two without any no-clip hacks - think of it as a ''turbo-turbo engine'' HOWEVER.... as I was building up my wings - the sweeping straight lines you can see cutting across the delta are the original wings as they were with no extensions - I noticed my COG was very high on the craft. I can only assume it was to do with my engines and the relatively low mounted wings. So now, my centre of lift sits in front and below the COG.. which coupled with fore and aft canards, makes the craft VERY pitch-happy - if you overdo it by just a tiny bit, you will be sent into an unrecoverable flatspin. You then HAVE to use the supporting engines and suddenly the craft flies PERFECTLY and even recovers on it's own.... That's about the thick of it. To answer 1: 0.50 to 0.40 is my cruise consumption - once I get to a cruising speed and altitude. The problem is, a single engine doesn't have the power to push this jet very fast so the climb rate is usually always below 100m/s. I think I will need to convert to a dual jet just to improve my overall speed and climb. I am carrying something like 1900 units of fuel so I could probably afford to sacrifice some efficiency for another engine and double my thrust. My main concern was airflow - the more air there is to breathe, the more power a single jet can make. But I have yet to reach an operational ceiling with this craft 2: As I mentioned before, it's fairly high, with COL being in front and below. I managed to align it with rear canards so that it's directly under the COG but mass is still swinging my plane out of control if I'm not extremely careful. Angle of attack seems very reasonable though, I circumnavigated at 20 degrees before the new model was introduced, now it's almost flat - but the lack of speed kills it as I get higher and have to increase my drag to maintain altitude. This is why I wanted more wings, so I can carry my weight with me. I could remove the front canards and tweak the rear ones to make my pitch less violent - as my canards are barely angled during a cruise. (problem is it cruises at 260m/s at 13km....) Ideally my COL and COG would be aligned on the central axis, with the lift a little in front but I'll take anything with this plane :3 I don't want to play with fuel levels anymore it's very complicated, especially with the weird way my plane uses fuel in the first place which makes it almost impossible to keep balanced in anything else other than 0 and 1. Well, I'll make some tweaks to it, see if I can make it fly right. My main concern is and always was airflow - that was the biggest limiting factor of the previous meta. EDIT: Changes were made! I retained my VTOL AND made it flyable with some fairly minor tweaks! I also kept relative balance of the craft while adding a 2nd engine. Overall, it worked out pretty well. My 2 main issues were: - lack of power - violent pitch instability Issue #1 was resolved by doubling up on my main engines. I initially thought this would spread the air between them pretty thing but that doesn't seem to be the case and my thrust is now double - which is perfectly adequate. It is however a little too thirsty right now. Adding a 2nd engine meant the tail was now a lot heavier so I had to drop my oxidizer ballast. In addition to that, I brought the nacelles down a bit, rotated them towards the inside of the plane while I kept the intakes facing the right way with some minor offset work. Nacelles are no longer used to carry fuel around - which might change if I decide I need more fuel for the challenge. However that will require some more balance work :S Issue #2 was brought to a manageable level with several smaller tweaks. Trailing edge of my wing was tilted down for extra lift in the old design - this was no longer necessary and I replaced it with a flatter and bigger piece. After some testing, involving a metric ton of backflips and even some frontflips (!!), I added canards back in but mounted them dead level, with no trim preference. Doubled up canards at the back for even more force with less deflection. The biggest issue here was that the nose of the plane had a tendency to rise no matter what I did. So to combat that, I mounted simple fins to the nose of the craft and angled them down so they create a little bit of drag and try to pull the nose down. This counter balanced the violent tendency to nose-up a lot but it wasn't perfect until I added more canards to manage my pitch better. It's still a bit hit-and-miss however. It's a very difficult craft to fly - climb too quickly and you will get stuck at high altitude and low speed. Too flat and you waste fuel to excess drag at low altitudes. Too violent and you will lose 30%+ of your speed with a chance to flip and lose all control of the craft. Too high and too slow and your engines don't have enough air to breathe and thrust drops - and you have to get crazy angles of attack. Get it JUST right and it will get close to 1000m/s - at which point you fry the fins that manage your passive stability and control becomes a lot more difficult than it was. Lots of lift helps keep a flatter AoA while climbing and accelerating. Once at speed, it flies almost perfectly level and manages itself pretty well. But you don't want to try and correct your heading.... Finished craft: So a few more tests, and I will be using the Kerbin Presidente Mk3 for my attempt :3

You're right, in principle. It would make more sense to have less drag. However I added more lift in hopes of leveling out my angle of attack and thus reducing drag this way AND placing my intakes at a more horizontal angle. I already angled my nacelles down by a notch :S The problem is I am using the ram air intakes which don't seem to be functioning at their best at lower altitudes and speeds. I keep struggling past 260m/s but inevitably hit a wall and start slowing down AND losing altitude. I fear my craft got too complicated for it's own good and I might need to redesign with less of everything. Weight it a huge compromising issue - it carries a lot of fuel, several passengers and stowed away engines that are used for vertical take off (landing doesn't work quite as well though).

I'm having an issue where a single engine isn't getting me up to speed quick enough - I'm trying to compensate by adding lots of lift to improve my angle of attack but it's still painfully slow :S But it is a one-of-a-kind craft (more on that later). Any ideas on what I should do to increase the speed without having to add another engine and upset my somewhat messy weight distribution?

Haha I'm glad it inspired you mate I made it in a game actually - I used to play one game that allowed a lot of creative license with this stuff (as away of getting round lack of image editing software). I really feel part of the community every time I see someone wearing that badge Had a few projects that never quite took off so I'm glad this one made it as far as it did. I might just attempt to update it a little now Sadly, I don't know what happened to Flixx :S It was his challenge to begin with and I only contributed with the badge, but I suppose he's either taking a break or he may not have the time to play anymore. Leading such popular challenges takes a degree of dedication (as I found that out the hard way), he might have just gotten tired of it or his life got in the way. He might come back though, you never know Anyway, I'm glad you took your time to preserve this challenge I think that - second to the K-Prize - it's one of the most popular and accessible challenges out there. There's something so rewarding about atmospheric flight around Kerbin - which is often overlooked in favor of more ''exciting'' places. I've been testing out some craft, getting used to the new physics and I might be onto something. A bit of tweaking and I'll be back on that board soon

I see you took some heavy inspiration from the previous challenge ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/25884-Kerbin-Circumnavigation-Challenge-Reloaded-New-Rules-Once-More?highlight=circumnavigation ) Well, I will attempt it after work today probably or tomorrow :3 See you out there!

Well it's time to kick start this championship! Expect a submission soon!

Gone a bit quiet hasn't it? Merry Christmas everyone!

Can someone give me a quick run down of what's going on with FAR etc? And how is everyone so fast this time round?! xD

I'm back!! Again... This time, my internet was cut off for a few weeks. Finally got it back today so expect a new entry coming soon. But I DID also spot a major design flaw in my car. It had TWO rcs tanks, mirrored into each other. So I will be re-submitting my car if that's okay with you, this time actually following the regulations. I thought that it was odd when lowering RCS by 5 lowered it by 10 on the runway.....

Oh no you didn't! Back to the drawing board then I'm going to adjust my wing angles and try and try again. But not tonight, too tired now. Also, it turns out that any excess weight is bad weight so my shrouds aren't helping much. Will have to see what effects does using other parts has on my craft but I'm not feeling like doing a re-design. I'll make do with this for this season :3 Gotta go to bed, good night and good luck!

Yeah, I'll keep that one as my re-try. Any further ones will be only to get that lap record down Speaking of attempts, just had a crack at race 2 and got 1:32 on the first try. Few more tries and I should get that down a few seconds :3 EDIT: 2nd try, 1:27. Went wide a few times though and I literally crashed into the recruitment center. Happily i didn't break anything and just skimmed my wheels on the pillars - that was lucky! Take a look yourself: Start: MET 6:00. Note I took a screenshot at the same time as I pressed W. As a result it's rolling 0.3m/s... didn't notice that, might have to re-do. End: MET 7:27 Line: Giblets, it's your turn now

1:25 with a regulation cart. I suspect if I get my 2-wheel/4-wheel steer switch just right on some corners and alter the wing angles I can get more out of it. Start: MET 1:30 End: MET 2:55 Track: I did lower the amount of RCS by half to reduce weight, didn't need all of it for the race anyway even though it fired all the way through. Again, my wings are very aggressive right now, might be slowing me down a tad.

Ill have a crack at it :3

I'm hoping for some stiff competition Giblets!! :3

It's good to see you back Giblets

Give me a moment :3 EDIT: Gave the first race a go. 1:30on the first recorded try but it's not my best and I ended up with a few questionable corners and one downright cut across the grass. This car is incredibly twitchy and holds the road so well I can just throw it into corners at full speed on full lock and expect to get around. The only problem is that smoothness of my lap suffers quite a bit as a result. A few tips for all the racers: - camber and otherwise badly aligned wheels will actually reduce your time. They hinder grip, make for a more unpredictable car and don't make your life easier in corners. In real life, racing camber is very small, almost barely noticeable. Aggressive camber will wreck your performance :S Wheels in KSP only have optimum grip if they are perfectly aligned with the ground. - shift your centre of gravity as far down as possible by mounting heavy items low on the chassis. - shift your entire car as far down as you feel comfortable! The idea is to help lower the CoG even more by bringing your chassis down but there are limits. If you hit the ground you can glitch, break things and wreck your car. At best bottoming out will cost you valuable time. KSC is also very uneven with overlaps and invisible kerbs as well as slopes on the outer edges - try to find a good balance for the best clearance and lowest chassis you feel happy with. Low cars handle better and get quicker times. - Boost all the time. Docking mode and W in EVA seat will see you boost from the start to end. Use that to your advantage. It's especially vital at the start when your vehicle is still and heavy. - Solar panels are lighter than SOME batteries. Lastly and MOST importantly, USE ALL WING SURFACES YOU ARE ALLOWED TO USE! I cannot stress this enough, if you DON'T put 10 wings on your car, it won't be as good as a car that has 10 wings. MAKE SURE YOUR WINGS GENERATE DOWNFORCE AND NOT LIFT!! Certain angles and reverse mounting techniques can result in wings making your vehicle worse than others. That's most but not all of my knowledge about Kerbal racing :3 Use it to your advantage. If you knew this already, you are that step closer to being a champion. Good luck! EDIT 2: RACE ONE - LAP TIME : 1.30 Start: MET 2:00 End: MET 3:30 Lap: This was a difficult and fast lap. more corners than I could remember really. Boosting right from the start and using most of the allowed track width gave me an edge. My car weighs around 950kg ish dry as far as I can remember so it's not heavy. Lightness and downforce count for a lot here especially with those incredibly tight corners. Because it's a late time, I won't hold it against you if you don't put me on the main leaderboard for that race. An honorable mention would be fine seeing as the race has already been won by zhollett :3 Camrod Kerman feels good to be back behind the wheel again :3 (He also feels naturally generated, which is what I love so much about him - his name and the fact he has 100% courage but only about 40% stupidity)