czokletmuss

This is philosophical (ontological, to be precise) question for which science probably will never give an answer. Same goes for us on this forum - we're just humans, we don't know. I think nobody knows or will know ever.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2330/1 Well, it doesn't look good for NASA. But hey, who said that the USA will have leading space agency forever?

Another off-screen material: Next chapter is coming soon.

Sorry for the delay (RL folks), I'll try to post nex chapter ASAP.

I would say that probably today

And to quote wiki: It's really hard s-f; well, except maybe for the idea of private company launching mission to Europa in the first place.

What's interesting is that there is another similar game "Race to Mars" being developed as we speak:

I watched "Europa Report" and it's a solid hard s-f movie which I can recommend to everyone

I too couldn't find the reputation button but kudos for you.

This will happen: CNSA already put space lab Tiangong-1 up there, this year they are launching Tiangong-2. With docked Shenzhou (Chinese Soyuz more or less) it looks like this: Other than this we can only speculate what NASA, ESA or any other agency of private company come up with. Have you read "Titan" by Stephen Baxter?

Exactly. Besides, think about it for a moment. In this vision first people to walk on the surface of the other world would be murderes, rapists and psychopats (that is, the most dangerous ones). How could anyone think it should happen? Prison or capital punishment will always be cheaper on Earth.

Sadly that's true. KSP forum is quite civilized however - maybe because rocket science even in a game demands some basic level of intelligence which often goes in pair with personal culture? However there is also quite a lot of pressure on some of the most popular modders and some people think that spending 20 bucks means they purchased slaves making stuff for them as they demand it. I hope that with growing popularity KSP forum will stay more or less the same - place when you can show your work, ask questions and get answers to them, talk about physics and space, download incredible mods and just have fun.

Speaking about Chelyabinsk - it's a pity it didn't happen in a bigger, more important city. I bet that having some national monument blowed up or a lot of people killed would multiply the amount of funding for the "space defense" several times. At the moment we are completely powerless to stop asteroids. And we need some protection, even though it's a low probability-high impact event (no pun intended).

I'm sorry but sentencing someone to Australia and sending someone to Mars are completely different things. If you can't see the difference - well, I don't know what could I say honestly. Prison-planet is just a silly s-f idea. It's not going to happen ever.

You are right, unfortunately. It seems that it works more or less like this in NASA: build SLS and Orion -> building -> Orion and SLS completed -> looking for anything to justify building them in the first place. There are only two missons - SLS-1/EM-1 and SLS-2/EM2 - scheduled. Orion is useless in LEO, because there are other vehicles (ATV, Dragon, Soyuz) which can transport cargo and people. That's why they are jumping back and forward: Moon? Maybe Mars? Or maybe asteroid? I can't stop thinking that this whole thing is more about jobs and votes back on Earth than exploring space. Yes, this little tug won't stop dinosaur killer, but still it would be a big step forward, something like a test field. And about L4 and L5 I agree - sooner or later this little rock influenced by Moon's and Earth's gravity will leave its orbit. And then what?

He's just a happy camper. Or will they?! :dum dum: Thanks Buried alive. Buried alive. Interesting theory. *** There is a lot going on and I don't want to spend time describing every detail. That's why I decided to just show you some thing (literally) which won't be described in the story. In a way, I'm just showing you what's going on off-screen. It's just a test to see if you are interested in something like this, so some feedback would be great Enjoy!

Wouldn't it be easier to lock'em up in a prison or kill them than to spend billions only to send them to place where they would probably die anyway?

Two weeks beyond LEO is certainly something, just like a manned Moon fly-by. However I still have a bad feeling about this idea and I fear it may be cancelled very easily. If they do this, it may inspire the new generation - imagine, live stream from the low Moon orbit. Together with Curiosity and its successor and Chinese rover landing in this year it may stir things up a bit.

Thank you.

This. And the spacecraft is really cool and well thought through. You can watch the tv series on youtube: http://youtu.be/N68U3eYQ_Cg Knowing Yogui's work and his skills this is going to be absolutely must-have mod

It's no proof - it just shows how hard and challenging it's gonna be. I doubt MarsOne can handle issues which are problematic for NASA, ESA or any other big agency. On a side note - I would love to see people on Mars in the next 10 years. But realistically speaking, it's almost certainly not going to happen.

CHAPTER 24 DUNA LANDING *** ROZER: …and that's why we did this. Do you understand now? Can you grasp the implications of this? PATLIE: Kod. GENANAND: Are you sure that this wasn't some artifact in the data, some interference or malfunctioning detector? ROZER: We are absolutely sure. The source is within Duna SOI. FERTOP: Is it somewhere on the surface? Or is it Ike? ROZER: We narrowed it down to few possible locations which could indicate artificial origin. Our rover got confirmation on one of them. JEDGEL: Wow. Is it really possible that…? ROZER: Maybe – we don't know yet. Duna Space Telescope will help us gather more data about the these structures. However, according to the plan after confirmation our next step is to establish permanent outpost and continue the investigation with robots. And that's when you enter, gentlemen. MALLOCK: Wait, what do you mean by permanent outpo…? ROZER: BERTY, execute D/R2/L002. BERTY v.2.0.8: AFFIRMATIVE. CORALD: What was that?! ROZER: Landers separation. Gentlemen, your role will be to search for clues and try to grasp what we're dealing with. Our understanding of Duna and its history is still very limited, even after “Yinghuoâ€Â. You were trained for this and you are prepared for this. The only difference for you will be the time you are going to spend down there. JEDGEL: I don't think I follow. ROZER: It's simple, really. We're parting ways – to complete the mission we still have to investigate the outer System. You, however, are going to stay here as the crew of the Duna Base 01. FERTOP: What?! For how long? ROZER: One year, at least. This should be enough time to gather sufficient data to prove or falsify some of our theories. You're going to build the fundaments for further examination. MALLOCK: Further examination? So there will be more? More missions? ROZER: Naturally. GENANAND: So let me get this clear – we'll spend the next year on Duna conducting scientific experiments so that the next mission can use this knowledge to start the real exploration? ROZER: Yes. MALLOCK: … FERTOP: But we will be studying the Source - I mean, what we suspect it's the Source - itself, right? So why don't we just… ROZER: No, you won't. JEDGEL: Okay, I have no idea what's going on. We are going to investigate the Source without investigating it? ROZER: You will use robots to gather more information. However, you won't come closer to it than several dozen kilometers. In fact, the landing site is so far away you won't be able to do it at all. GENANAND: But… why? ROZER: Precaution. Safety. Until we know what it is, why it is there, how does it work and what's it purpose, we won't risk close encounter. CORALD: Do the rest of the crew know about it? About us staying here? ROZER: They will know in due time. One more thing – you aren't allowed to communicate with them, so don't even bother. I'm really sorry but this is necessary. However you will be able to contact with me, BERTY or KSC. MALLOCK: :sigh: ROZER: Don't worry, professor. You won't stay down there that long. JEDGEL: Okay, capt... commander, it's getting really annoying. Could you please just tell us what's going on without mincing words? ROZER: As I told you several times, you all have been selected for the Duna Exploration Team. However, your abilities still will be needed later and due to mission constrains we couldn't have taken more scientists onboard then we did. That's why you, professor Mallock, and you, doctor Genanand, won't stay here with the rest of the team for a whole year. You are coming with us, with “Proteusâ€Â. Before the transfer window opens however your task will be the same as theirs. MALLOCK: But we will land on Duna, right? ROZER: Yes. Your skills are needed down there. PATLIE: This is all very confusing but if I remember correctly, using two LAMGMLs as landers simultaneously is prohibited, so there is no way both of them can land on the planet. JEDGEL: And there is still Ike to investigate. How are we going to…? ROZER: Very good point. We will use only one LAMGML naturally – as you pointed it out, captain Patlie, using both landers at the same time will pose unnecessary risk to the mission. That's why we won't use them both. FERTOP: So how…? BERTY v.2.0.8: ROVER 2 HAS LANDED. ROZER: Excellent. Gentlemen, in a few minutes you are about to see our landing site. JEDGEL: Err, commander? Why BERTY speaks so weirdly? ROZER: Safe mode. He's having some problems with the latest update, as it seems, but don't worry, it's probably nothing serious. Anyhow, does anyone have more questions before we proceed? MALLOCK: The landing? ROZER: Oh, yes. Captain Patlie together with doctor Fertop and doctor Jedgel will land near to the habitat module using LAMGML. The rest of us will use the DAV. PATLIE: DAV? ROZER: Duna Ascent Vehicle. You'll need it to come back to orbit after your mission is over or in case of emergency. CORALD: As a physician responsible for the crew health there is something I must ask about – will we be getting more supplies? I don't think that habitat module alone will suffice for longer than a few months. ROZER: Of course. Yes, what is it? PATLIE: We can use DAV to come back to orbit, I get it – but then what? “Proteus†will be billions of kilometers from here, right? ROZER: That's true. But if you remember what I said earlier, your mission is just a beginning of Duna exploration. The small space station will be build above the planet and Payload B will be its core. BERTY v.2.0.8: ROVER 2 HAS CONFIRMED THE FAVORABLE CONDITIONS OF THE LANDING SITE D. ROZER: Which means we are go for landing. :smiles: Is that all? We will have a lot time to chat once we are down there, so if there are more questions you can be sure your curiosity will be appeased. Within reason, of course – mission's good is the top priority. Nobody? Very good – let's proceed then. BERTY, deorbit the base modules and initiate the autopilot – we're landing in the site D. BERTY v.2.0.8: AFFIRMATIVE. *** FERTOP: So, what do you think about all this? I'm still a little overwhelmed, to be honest. JEDGEL: Yeah, me too. It's a lot to handle in such a short time. And now we're going to land on Duna. Damn. PATLIE: I don't know what about you but I'm confident that everything's gonna be alright. We're staying on Duna even longer than we dreamed to and we may be on the verge of one of the most important discoveries ever. It's incredible. FERTOP: Well, yeah but aren't you a little concerned that we find out about all this now, after more then 20 months? Kod, and what about our training back on Kerbin? They lied to us for years. PATLIE: I don't think “lie†is a appropriate word. After all, they told us everything, just a little later. FERTOP: Are you kidding? And how come you know that we know everything? Maybe there are some things they are still hiding? Did you think about that? JEDGEL: Hey, don't be paranoid. Yes, it's a little weird and for me captain's approach to sharing his knowledge is also… PATLIE: Commander, he's a commander now. JEDGEL: Oh, right. Well, Rozer's approach is weird too. But it's not such a big deal. FERTOP: Okay, now I don't get it, guys. He prohibited any communication with “Proteus†- why? Did something happen onboard? PATLIE: Come on, they have reasons to no to tell everyone. We're a small, selected group, so they can tell us, right? It's just that the other didn't pass the tests, that's all. FERTOP: Aren't we all selected? The fact that we are here as the crew of the “Proteus†indicates that they already chosed – why didn't they tell us all about it? JEDGEL: Because it's so big and they don't want any leaks? FERTOP: That doesn't convince me. PATLIE: Deorbit burn in 120 seconds. Doctor, can you stop with this conspiracy theories? Rozen is our superior with authority of the KSC. BERTY acknowledges that and so should we. When I was in the Air Force we didn't question orders like this, we just followed them. FERTOP: Good for you. But I have this thing called brain and I can clearly see that something's wrong. It just doesn't add up. JEDGEL: I don't think I can agree completely but yeah, there's something weird going on. Don't you think Patlie? PATLIE: No, I don't think so. FERTOP: Kod, try to think for yourself at least once, man! PATLIE: Like captain Jeb, right? JEDGEL: Not this again… FERTOP: Yeah, maybe you should. What's your problem with him anyway? PATLIE: He was discrediting authority of commander Bob, he ignored direct order from his superior and he punched commander Rozer in the face. I don't think that's the proper behavior. FERTOP: Hey, he've had reasons to do so. PATLIE: 60 seconds. Sure, why don't we all start to ignore KSC and just fly wherever we fancy? FERTOP: Don't try to… PATLIE: Ridicule it? I don't have to. We're in space, billions of kilometers from Kerbin, alone. Several centimeters from us there is a vacuum filled with deadly radiation. We're alive only because of the advanced technology. And we are here in the first place to fulfill our mission. That's it. It's not cowboys and Indians, it's not an adventure – we're on a mission! And to survive and complete it we need to follow our orders. Without order there is chaos and chaos plus space equals death. JEDGEL: Now that was unexpected. PATLIE: Oh shut up, egghead. FERTOP: Is it really so? Or maybe you are just jealous? PATLIE: … JEDGEL: Fertop, please. FERTOP: No, no. Are you? Some inferiority complex? Great captain Jebediah who flew to the Jool and came back and you on the same ship? Hmm? Come on, tell me. Why is it so that… FERTOP: Argh! You could give us a warning, asshole! Frakin' acceleration… PATLIE: I did. I have a work to do, so please be so kind and shut up. PATLIE: Okay, we're entering the atmosphere. JEDGEL: We'll be the first people to walk on the surface – ugh! - since “Yinghuoâ€Â. Maybe both of you should concentrate on that. PATLIE: I'm concentrating on the aerocapture right now, so please shut up. Oh crap. FERTOP: What? PATLIE: I detect signals from rover and habitat module but I'm not getting anything from the second module. JEDGEL: That's not good, I think – Kod, what are you…?! PATLIE: Turbulences, we're going deeper into the atmosphere. Hold tight! FERTOP: Maybe you should use – Kod! - use autolanding assistant? PATLIE: I'am! JEDGEL: Aren't we going too fast? I think we're going too fast! PATLIE: Crap, altimeter is not responding. Give me altitude, now! FERTOP: I can't see through the engine exhaust! PATLIE: Listen up! I'm going to turn off the engine… JEDGEL: What?! PATLIE: …for a few seconds and then you'll tell me how high we are. FERTOP: Why don't we use parachute? PATLIE: We need to land close to the hab module. Do it! JEDGEL: Oh crap, we're falling, we're falling! PATLIE: Fertop! FERTOP: We're, uhm, five or four – I see the hab module, 100 or so meters! PATLIE: Good! PATLIE: Touchdown! JEDGEL: Oh my Kod… FERTOP: We're on Duna! We really are! JEDGEL: Did we land next to the hab module? PATLIE: Probably. Give me a sec. Okay, external camera is online. Let's find out. PATLIE: Yes! 70 meters at most. FERTOP: Okay, you're an asshole but I'll give you that – nice landing. PATLIE: You are welcome. Payload B, this is “Beta†- we've landed! *** BERTY v.2.0.8: SEPARATION CONFIRMED. ROZER: Good. Decoupling fairings on my mark. Mark. BERTY v.2.0.8: FAIRINGS DECOUPLED. ROZER: Unfolding solar panels. Checking SAS and RCS. ROZER: Okay, everything's nominal. Preparing for deorbit burn. MALLOCK: I hate landings. GENANAND: Hey – this is Duna we're landing on. The Red Planet. Aren't you excited? MALLOCK: I'm I guess. But I would be a hell of a lot calmer if I knew about this lander for a little longer then few hours. ROZER: Relax, professor. This machine is even more reliable than LAMGML. Prepare everyone. Burn in five, four, three, two, one, burn initiated. ROZER: And done. Coasting to the Kerman line. MALLOCK: Commander? ROZER: Yes? MALLOCK: You said before that the mission will continue, that “Proteus†won't abort to Kerbin. ROZER: Yes. MALLOCK: But we don't have the AMU, do we? And what we thought was Laythe Lander turned out to be DAV. So I wonder… ROZER: You'll get your answers, professor. When the time is right. MALLOCK: And what about Ike then? ROZER: What about it? MALLOCK: Who is going there? ROZER: You'll see. MALLOCK: :sigh: ROZER: Patience, professor. BERTY v.2.0.8: DUNA ASCENT VEHICLE HAS ENTERED THE ATMOSPHERE. AUTOPILOT INITIATED. GENANAND: I have to admit that this is somewhat unnerving. ROZER: I'm afraid I must agree. It's taking slightly too long for system checkup. BERTY v.2.0.8: AEROBRAKING IN PROGRESS GENANAND: Maybe it's more serious than we thought? ROZER: Don't jump to the conclusions, doctor. CORALD: Commander, there is one more thing. ROZER: Yes? CORALD: All our medical supplies were in the module R. And because it landed more than 20 kilometers from the landing site… ROZER: That's not a problem at all. You'll see. BERTY v.2.0.8: WARNING. LOW FUEL LEVEL. GENANAND: Oh crap. ROZER: Continue, BERTY. MALLOCK: Continue? But… ROZER: Professor. Please. MALLOCK: … BERTY v.2.0.8: WARNING. CRITICAL FUEL LEVEL. ROZER: Manual control. Here we go. MALLOCK: :fast breathing: BERTY v.2.0.8: 8 KILOMETERS. WARNING. CRITICAL FUEL LEVEL. GENANAND: Err, commander? BERTY v.2.0.8: 7 KILOMETERS. WARNING. CRITICAL FUEL LEVEL. GENANAND: Shouldn't we use parachutes? BERTY v.2.0.8: 6 KILOMETERS. WARNING. CRITICAL FUEL LEVEL. MALLOCK: :fast breathing: GENANAND: We have parachutes, right? ROZER: Quiet. BERTY v.2.0.8: 5 KILOMETERS. WARNING. ENGINE CUTOFF IN 10 SECONDS CORALD: Kod… GENANAND: Commander?! BERTY v.2.0.8: 4 KILOMETERS. WARNING. ENGINE CUTOFF IN 5 SECONDS ROZER: Switching to AV main engine. ROZER: And touchdown. Is everyone all right? CORALD: I think professor Mallock passed out. GENANAND: Alright? Alright?! You didn't tell us we have fuel for the other engine! You scared us to death, you sick bastard! ROZER: Careful, doctor, you're speaking to your superior. Of course we have one more – how do you think Duna Exploration Team is going to come back to orbit? I'm disappointed – it appears you're not so cool-headed after all. GENANAND: Wha…but…this… you did it on purpose? It was another test? ROZER: You all failed, I'm afraid. Now, calm down and look around you – we're on Duna, doctor. ROZER: Safe and sound after perfect landing, may I add. I don't think even captain Jebediah could land so flawlessly. It's amazing what you can accomplish with everyday training actually. GENANAND: … CORALD: He's waking up. ROZER: Good. Let's not waste more time then - prepare for EVA. *** ROZER: I'm going down. Just a few steps… there. We did it. Oh Kod, we did it. BERTY v.2.0.8: COMMANDER? ROZER: It's so beautiful. Astonishing, completely astonishing. :sobs: Kod. BERTY v.2.0.8: COMMANDER? ROZER: :sobs: That's nothing, BERTY. Ahem. Yes. So here we are, almost half of our mission completed. Isn't that something. BERTY v.2.0.8: YES COMMANDER. ROZER: How ironic: after all these months in deep space, traveling from one planet to another, only here we can finally truly begin. *** MISSION STATUS ***

Well of course - after all it's much easier to spend on Mars 10+ years then 1 year.

Exactly. Radioactive barren wasteland - that is, every celestial body in the System other than Earth - will give you no profit in the forseeable future. Can we do this (go to Mars)? Probably. But we also can with sufficient funds establish a colony at the Mariana Trench. More important is, why we should do this? And even if we can and we should, will the politicians understand this? Will the public opinion understand and support it?