cybutek

Are you sure it is related to high thrust and Isp? Have you managed to replicate it with 3 parts? Lately I've been getting bug reports containing ships that are so overly complex that it is impossible to re-create these bugs people are having. Example being that someone told me that they had a re-creatable bug with their space station, but didn't tell me it had 300 odd parts. It looked fine with no obvious reasons so there's absolutely no way for me to narrow down what was causing the issue. I even sent up a few crafts myself to dock together, which worked perfectly. If it's not re-creatable with only a few parts then it is pure speculation as to what is causing the bugs. Re-creatable means that the bug can be re-created on its own with only a few parts and doesn't rely on building a 120 part ship, in which case it could be absolutely anything. It might not be the thrust or Isp causing the bug, it could be anything contained in that ship, or a bug caused when certain parts are put together in a specific order. Sorry for the rant, but I'm actually getting a little frustrated with all these "it don't work on my 1,000,000 part ship, because of this..." bugs. Then I try and re-create the "because of this..." bug and it works perfectly fine, so that's not the bug. I also do not have the time to dismantle a 300 part space station 1 part at a time, test, take another part off, test. Pure facts are what I need... If it is caused by the thrust and Isp; does it bug out when you use a command pod, 1 fuel tank and 1 super big and efficient engine? Or does the bug only happen with your 120 part ship?

I think it was caused by a simple error. The next version has been re-written though, and all of the angle clamps are done a bit differently now. It's taking longer than expected to get this new version out due to time issues at the moment, so I may release an in-development build at some point. It's not really fit for wide release yet though as people will inevitably think of it as a full release when it clearly isn't. Some features and readouts are not implemented or fleshed out etc. (just doing a bit of damage control).

That made me chuckle... I like the idea of a window with useful information and statistics, which can be used like a reference manual. So it saves alt+tabbing out to a wiki or the like.

On the first part about giving you a delta V amount needed to reach orbit in the VAB. The best way is to assume 4,500 to 5,000. This cannot be calculated because it varies so much on how you fly. If you fly slower you need more delta V to overcome gravity, and if you fly faster you need more because you're creating more drag. Sometimes your ship design will need that extra 200m/s, and sometimes you might have 200m/s to spare. That's where efficient flying comes into play and why there's an atmospheric density display, so you can plan your gravity turn based on when it is most efficient etc. (around 10k-12k) MechJeb does not calculate your delta V using the ascent computer based on the ship design... It just records the deltaV used and how much of it was used to do a certain thing, ie. overcome drag. No matter what design you're using. It works in the complete opposite of the Flight Engineer. MechJeb says how much you've used (only when launching) in a very passive sense as it is happening. The Flight Engineer shows how much you have remaining (throughout the whole flight) in an active sense of analysing the ship. This is one of them examples where both plugins do things completely differently but compliment each other nicely.

This plugin will only display the longitude and latitude of where you are over the surface of the planet/moon. There is no actual landing computer as it is an aid to help manual flight. You will need fly to and initiate your burns over the landing site yourself. The whole point of the Flight Engineer was to give you all the information needed to fly, without the temptation of using MechJeb's automation. Please note that this plugin does compliment MechJeb in many ways if you do wish to use them side by side. It is just that my personal goal for this plugin was to be able to fly completely manually, whilst still being as accurate as MechJeb (if you're a good enough pilot ). Even to the point that the map will not be needed at all in future updates.

Yeah, didn't think anyone would ever need to use file metadata to see the version though. I'll add it in from the next update.

I've not been able to re-create the crash but think I might know what could be possibly causing it if it is TWR related. Not certain though, so don't want to release a whole new version for no reason. If it does still crash, PM me and I'll link you to the slightly modified plugin file to test out.

The mass and TWR within the VAB goes by the mass set in the part.cfg files. I believe that is supposed to be the full tanks. The actual mass of the tanks will be calculated as empty as soon as you start a flight, the Kethane plugin calculates this and updates the mass to its true value when it kicks in and activates at flight time. I don't suppose you have any more detailed information of when this usually occurs? Is it whilst changing SOI, when a specific part breaks etc.? What type of engines are you using? Does it only happen with a specific display open? Loads of questions I know... But it all really helps to identify what is happening... If it is re-creatable that is the best kind of bug. If it's not easy to create, PM'ing me a zip of your persistence, ships being used and with a list of mods so I can try and re-create it myself would help loads. Especially if there's a quicksave just before it happens

Hotfix now available, version 0.4.3.1! Sorry about that... I tried to sort out that most annoying click through bug again, thinking that Squad may have fixed the bug which caused my plugin to have a bug in it. The cause is purely related to a bug within KSP where some variable doesn't get unlocked when unlocking the editor. I hope it didn't cause too much kafuffle. Only problem now is that the click through is still there , and it is one of the most annoying things ever in my opinion, although if you take a bit of care it isn't that much of a problem. If anyone has any better ideas of how to stop click through without either locking and unlocking the editor, to stop selections whilst the mouse is over the window (other than there being a bug in the unlock code within KSP, this would of been perfect). Or capturing the mouse button events and discarding them before they are sent to the editor (don't think this is possible at plugin level). Please let me know. Hotfix now available, version 0.4.3.2! Fixed another Build Engineer bug and also added in an extra part without the Flight Engineer.

Damn it... Same bug as before caused by the click through fix... Seems that bug in KSP is still there in 0.17... It'll be fixed as soon as I get home from work.

New 0.4.3 version available! It has been a while but a new version is now available. Fixing some bugs, adjusting a few calculations and adding in a couple small features. I again thank everyone who has contributed with some great ideas and support. P.S. Who on Kerbin gave my plugin a thumbs down on kerbal.net ... At least it has 6 thumbs up hehehe

Whoa, wall-o'-text indeed ... Wish you came along when I was first putting together all the deltaV stuff, would of been a great help. You've definitely got some good stuff there which I can use. Main problem is that I'm not sure how good the performance will be of this kind of recursive function. Performance is something I've got to keep in the back of my head, running (guessing here) somewhere in the region of n log(n) iterations every frame could get quite demanding. Especially considering that the whole point is for it to help out with huge and complex rockets to begin with Will work with what you've given me and try to find some less iteratively demanding ways using built-in functions. P.S. I wish there was more time in every day and I didn't need a real life job. Got an update on the burners as I type this, going to contain a couple small bug fixes (inc. accurate phase angle calculations for new planets/moons). Also if anyone's got accurate gravity parameters for the new planets, it would be very useful so I can plug em into the Build Engineer's Thrust/Weight section for tonight's update. Gotta dash, my job as a corporate slave in retail beckons me

Yup, a heliocentric phase angle is planned for the next version... Also there is a slight error in the relative speed directions but it is accurate with regards to magnitudes. The rendezvous system was released in this current version so there's definitely a few quirks to be ironed out, especially for the new planets.

Just had a few minutes spare and took a look at the Kethane source code... Looks as though all the mass is calculated through the plugin, apart from the tank's dry mass which is coded in as 0.25... So the mass in the VAB of the tank should be 0.25 as it only gets updated within flight. My plugin parses through the ship parts structure only when it needs to, so it does not slow the game down by looping and searching when it is not needed. It is quite possible that some of the time my plugin gathers the parts and looks through them before Kethane has updated and done its thing, so the deltaV is wrong. Sometimes my plugin could run after Kethane has done its thing, so the deltaV is right. I will go over my code and see if it is possible for me to work around this. A fix for this plugin would of course solve problems with other plugins that work on the same principle.

Strange one... The code doing the all the magic is totally modular and is used for both design and flight. I just give it all the parts of the ship and it does all the sorting and working out. Then I select a stage from it (in flight it will always be the current stage) and pull the data from that. The only differences in practise, is how the parts are chucked into this code. As the editor and in-flight parts of KSP work differently in this regard. (Could be something as simple as it not accounting for the command pod or something silly perhaps?) Going to have to check into this!

Thanks for the compliment, it means a lot to me that you and others are making use of my hard work. The problem with the delta-v when using vegetablised staging is that I'm going to have to spagettify the code quite a bit... Like the puns? Bad huh It is definitely something I would like to work on. As like you and everyone else, I also use drop-tanks and vegetarian staging. But because this will be quite an undertaking which will require a lot of thought and time to get my head around, I have focused more on getting out something which works. Adding the bit-sized feature updates with every version along with the bug fixes and general improvements. When I do go ahead with sorting this out, I will have to be certain in my mind that the current version is stable. I've only got a certain amount of free time available for working on this plugin, and all of that will be taken up by this one feature alone. In which time there will be no time spare for bug fixing. The plugin at the moment on this last update seems to be fairly stable, although I have noticed a typo ;-). There's still a couple minor fixes and some feature polish which still needs to be done. But as long as no big bugs are found, this plugin will be stable enough after one or two quick updates for me to go ahead with this planned feature. I am at the end of the day relying on everyone's help which comes in. I know it sounds bad, but I do not have enough time to thoroughly test every update in all situations. So all the feedback possible helps me figure out what is broken and what is not. Along with the big game breaking bugs, if anything odd happens it will be helpful to know. Or if it runs perfectly as expected, that also helps me figure out what parts are working well so I can concentrate on others. As I always say.... Any and all feedback is welcome! No matter how small, it could help in more ways than you think. Example would be that you keep reading the Time to Apoapsis instead of Apoapsis Height, so I'll move it around to make it easier etc.

New 0.4.2 version available! Hopefully this release will fair better than the 0.4.1 release that needed the quick fix of 0.4.1.1 due to a very big bug that was introduced. The main additional feature is a Rendezvous Display which will show various details which are useful whilst performing manual rendezvous manoeuvres. Including phase angle, relative inclination, distance, altitude and relative velocities. The other feature is that it now saves and loads the window positions for both the Build Engineer and Flight Engineer. An example of this being useful would be if you like having the Flight Engineer slightly down so you can see the quicksave text, it will now stay there when you quickload. As usual, if there's anything which is broke, missing or worth adding. Please tell me and I'll fix it or see if it's worth becoming a planned feature for implementation. As some of you have probably noticed, this plugin has a very rapid development life cycle. Being able to keep the updates coming is very much based on ideas and fixes, most of them coming from you guys. With your help this plugin can only get better!

That will be a problem with the other plugin. KSP cannot process any physics if a part has a mass of 0, because it would mean dividing by zero. Parts must always have a mass, even if it is just very small like 0.000001.

I can honestly say, I've no idea how such an in your face bug slipped through when I was testing. Going to sort it out ASAP. Edit: Sorted it by taking out the "click through window" fix. Your guess was correct!

What a weird date to release this version on... 12th September 2005. Didn't think KSP was available back then

Version 0.4.1 is now available! Costs have been introduced. The Flight Engineer now has folding sections and is quite unobtrusive. Added a few extra bits here and there and fixed a couple minor bugs which were found. Including fixing the problem where you could click through the window in the VAB onto your ship, which I found very annoying. This plugin will now also work with engines using the LiquidFuelEngineFix mod. Yes that was intended, so that it didn't show you loads of pointless stages and take up your whole screen. There is now a button to switch between showing all stages and only the important ones. The code behind this button has been in the plugin since 0.3, but was not linked up to anything. An important stage is considered to be one which contains Fuel or Isp.

The delta-v calculations for onion, asparagus and all varieties of vegetable derived rockets is one of the bigger challenges which needs to be addressed in this plugin. You are right that the delta-v will increase for the inner stage(s) and this is not shown within my calculations. The current calculations assume that a stage will stay intact and decoupled all at once. You can get a grasp of what's happening within the Flight Engineer, as the stage delta-v will jump up once you've decoupled the empty tanks. I have given it quite a bit of thought and not come up with an adequate solution myself yet. Bug fixes being the most important and also some other features have taken priority so far. If you could PM me your script, I'll take a look and see if your equations and algorithm could be adapted. But as you've rightly said, this is the point where everything gets a bit messy.

I'm seeing some great ideas on here!!!! All your help is greatly appreciated. I have planned the implementation of costs into the Build Engineer used within the VAB. Never thought of the costs being all that important, but if there's a demand then it makes sense to add them in. I have to agree that the Flight Engineer does bombard you with too much information when you don't need it. The hide button just isn't sufficient now that it's got three blocks full of loads of stuff. So I will also implement a tidy way to make the blocks foldable as well. Keep the ideas coming......

New version available... It is not a hotfix because it completely breaks functionality with the old part files. This version fixes a whole host of bugs which were known and unknown at the time. I had a bit of free time after work this afternoon so completely gutted and re-coded the logic sections of the plugin from scratch. Which was the only way to fix two of the biggest bugs found so far. All should be good from now on though I have included the direct link to the download on the kerbal.net website for this version so it should be faster to download. But there is still a link to the file on my server just in case kerbal.net goes down or something silly. Or you want a file name more descriptive than 0.4.0.0.zip, hehehehe (wish they could sort that out). Anyhow... Keep using, testing and breaking my plugin please. As it gets better and better with each update.

I have taken a look into this problem and there's no quick fix. But the undo bug and this one mingle with the same areas of code, so fixing one will fix the other. Probably requiring a lot of re-factoring or re-coding of complete sections of the logic. If it's not too extensive, I will aim to have a hotfix out sometime this week. Otherwise I'll be scratching my head and wearing away my fingertips over the weekend to sort this out. That was exactly the reason why I've implemented it... Loads of people have been asking for the same thing. Something with all the information like MechJeb but without the Mechanical Jeb part that tempts people to be really lazy.