capi3101

Crapsack Skunkworks received word today from NASA (the National Aerobatics and Stay-Put Administration) that Kongress has cut their budget for Fiscal Year Two. Something about the housing market on Kerbin collapsing on account of there being no housing on Kerbin (for that matter, not much in terms of buildings or infrastructure at all). President O'bummer Kerman has already stated that he doesn't give a Kraken about the space program, so the planned remaining eight missions of the Constipation program are going to be it for a while. To save extra money for take-out pizza, NASA has combined the plans for Constipation IX and Constipation X, effectively scrapping Constipation X entirely. Meanwhile, Crapsack Skunkworks unveiled their latest hardware for the program, and the launch of Constipation VI took place as scheduled. I have some scoring questions again, regarding these three criteria: Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) --- Do I score these points if this criteria is met with any of the lander designs (crew lander, habitat, cargo), if it is met by all the designs, or is if its met specifically by the crew lander? Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) -- Same question. Altair descent stage science: +1 for each science-equipped Altair landed on Mun -- Same question again. I ask this one because there are science instruments on my habitat lander (which is only a single stage craft; I intended for it to go down and not come back up, but it turned out capable of launch again). In all three cases, I've highlighted the criteria below in orange - I have not counted those points because I'm not 100% sure I've fulfilled their criteria. The bright green stuff I'm counting. PREVIOUS SCORES: Design 59, Mission 22 NEW POINTS CLAIMED: Design +4 (63), Mission +0 (0) All Points Previously Achieved in the Following Categories: Crew Launch Vehicle (Thanatos 7) Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Thanatos Heavy 7) Crew Vehicle (Scorpio 7) Space Station - Scorpio/Thanatos DESIGN POINTS Munar Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +2 pts Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1) Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (either Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2) Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2) Duna Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +2 pts. Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop the Duna lander to remain on Duna as a permanent outpost. The Duna landing mission should include pressurized seats for 1.5 times your crew size (round up). Eg. If your Duna lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Duna lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2) MISSION POINTS R&D: +0 pts Use an Ares I in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+1) Use an Ares V in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+2) Mun - Scorpio/Thantatos/Thantatos Heavy/Katapugon Series: +0 pts Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2) Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a polar landing (+2) Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair (+3) Return four Kerbals from a Munar landing to Kerbin (+2) Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location. The Altair and Outpost Variant need to be within 100m of each other. (+5) SCIENCE POINTS Advanced Technology Large-Aperture Space Telescope: Using an Ares V/EDS, deploy a science package to Kerbol synchronous orbit (Pe and Ap at 1 508 045.29 km +/- 1000km) (+2) Altair descent stage science: +1 for each science-equipped Altair landed on Mun (maximum +3) Kerbin Return Vehicle: Pre-landed Kerbin return vehicle on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1) Duna Lander: Lander on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1) No other mission objectives completed to date.

Sent a "habitat lander" to the Mun for the Constellation challenge. Parked it near the NAM. Thinking about calling the area a base once everything's said and done there; I have enough rovers down there now to open up a used car lot. Tried to get the next phase of that challenge under way by docking a lander to a capsule in Kerbin orbit. Orbits of both were too eccentric and I overshot, so I'll have to try again on both launches.

There are certain topics that will stoke the fires of Hades (telling people playing with Mechjeb is cheating is one, mentioning that telling people playing with Mechjeb is anoth......aw, crap!!!). For the most part though, you don't really see proper flame wars around here. We do have our share of abject jerks, but its usually only when they've been having a bad day in general.

640's enough to get you into a low orbit around Mün. So yes, it can take off to a low orbit (say 14k). Hopefully you packed RCS too, otherwise re-docking with the CSM is going to be problematic.

The capsule (presumably with a small parachute) and four goo canisters weighs 1.5 tonnes. Since you've got goo, I know you're at least at Tier 1 (i.e. you've unlocked Basic Rocketry), which means you've also got access to the TR-18A Stack Decoupler. So serial staging it is. Delta-V can be calculated by hand using the Tsiolkovsky Rocket Equation: dV = ln(M/Md)*9.81*Isp, where dV is delta-V, ln is the natural logarithm function (look for it on a scientific calculator or just use =LN() in Excel), M is the full mass of a stage, Md is the dry mass of a stage (i.e. once it's out of gas), and Isp is the specific impulse (efficiency) of the engines you're using. Okay...so do you have access to the LV-T45 yet? How about the LV-909? I know you don't have Fuel Systems yet (because you need that for asparagus at a minimum), so what techs have you unlocked? I'm trying to help you with a design but I need to know what parts you have available to you.

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Kraken And yes, it's Pol.

Okay...so you want to fly to the Mun and do science, huh? Short answer: you need roughly 5410 m/s of delta-V for a Munar flyby and free-return, 6,480 to go into Munar orbit and later return, or 7,760 for a Munar landing and return. Your payload is going to need to be somewhere between 4-16% the total mass of your rocket depending on how you have things staged (4% for SSTO, 16% for asparagus) Your piloting during launch also matters. Go straight up to 10,000m, then turn along course 090 at 45 degrees elevation and hold that until you're between 20-25k (about 30-45 seconds to apoapsis). Turn and follow the navball at that point, and burn along the horizon once your altitude is about 45k. Keep burning until your apoapsis is where you want it. Circularize once you're up there. Too much is dependent on the mass of your payload, your intended mission and your current progress along the tech tree (assuming a career game), so we do need some details. What exactly are you trying to do?

Odd; I'm seeing mine. The calculator vetrox is referring to is at http://ksp.olex.biz/ http://alexmoon.github.io/ksp/ and http://ksp.freeiz.com/ are also good calculator sites; the second one will give you an idea of just how many chutes you'll be talking about if you want to try and land sans thrusters.

1) Duna's atmosphere is thin. Chutes help but plan to land on thrusters. 2) You get to Duna by burning when it's about 45 degrees ahead of Kerbin in their respective orbits. It takes about 1,060 m/s of delta-V for an optimal transfer burn and then about 370 m/s of delta-V for an optimal aerobraking maneuver (around 12.5k above Duna's surface). Launch from Duna is 1380 m/s of delta-V. Planetary gravity is 2.94 m/s2, about a third of Kerbin's. 3) Rendezvousing the payload with a dedicated transfer module is not strictly necessary, though many people do this. You want LV-Ns is you have them; LV-909s or Poodles if you don't (you'll need about half as much fuel if you go with the nukes). 4) Shielding mechanism? Depends on the purpose, but I'll say no unless you're using Deadly Reentry. As for a design...that depends on your preferences. Here's my entry in the Duna Apollo-Style challenge; that might help you. Or not; you sometimes have to do things with challenges that are impractical, especially if you're just sandboxing it. That booster, incidentally, is a good example of how not to do things. Especially the four engine combo bit.

Working on one of those myself at the moment. One for Minmus too. Why not? Try SCE to AUX... On a more helpful vein, do you have RCS on either station piece? Pick one to fly, target the other piece, aim at the pink meatball on the navball and thrust ahead. At 700m you could get awy with a quick burst from any liquid bipropellant engines you might have too.

Installed Protractor and Kerbal Alarm Clock today. Brings my mod count up to four (was three, lost one when Subassembly became stock, added these two). Reinstalled KER from scratch and it's working normally now. Figured out a viable delivery method for my Hellfury Rover, made the final tweaks and did some boilerplate testing. I think it's ready for me to stick on a booster and send to the Mün. Just hoping the delivery method developed on Kerbin doesn't send the thing flying into Münar orbit... Developed a long-range science probe and booster. The probe itself has something like 6,000 m/s of delta-V. Haven't decided where to send it yet. Farted around with my Zenith substitutes. Tried to add RCS to one I'd already built; that didn't end so well.

Mir was up there for 15 years; if you're going with historical precedent, yours still has a few years. Why would you want to de-orbit it, anyway? Seriously, what's your rationale?

I was wondering when you were going to jump in there, Death Engineering. Looks like I need to get off my duff and do some missions... Thanks on the answers. In the stock game you can go to the map screen to see the coordinates of any landed object. You can also do it with KER.

Yeah; that's the way the Ares V was intended to operate - a lower stage with strap-on SRBs that was all lit up at launch, and then an upper stage. That upper stage is the Earth Departure Stage, used for circularizing heavy payloads and then shooting it off towards its final destination. And no, you only need to have one of them.

Point of clarification: On this scoring rule - Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair - I'm a bit confused. I see that I'm supposed to land an un-Kerballed lander on the Mun by itself. I then see that there's supposed to be a mission where the Altair brakes itself and an Orion into Mun orbit and performs a polar landing. The way it reads (or at least the way I'm reading that) is that in order to get the points for landing the Kerbals, it'll be necessary for me to A) land the un-Kerballed Altair somewhere close to the pole and park the other one close by. Is that essentially correct, or can I A) put the un-Kerballed lander where I please, brake the Orion into orbit, undock the lander un-kerballed and land it near the pole, and then C) send yet another lander to rendezvous with the Orion in Münar orbit and land it next to either one of the first two? Mainly just trying to plan out my remaining missions here. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to get that monster of a rover anywhere (especially since I can use a Cargo Altair to get it to the Mün, but it looks like for the Duna mission it'll have to tag along with one of the other landers with the way the rules are written). How close to the pole do I need to be?

Mün and Minmus have different challenges - Mün is easier to get to and harder to land on while Minmus is harder to get to and easier to land on. The trick with Minmus is that it's not in the same orbital plane as Kerbin and Mün, so you will need to do some normal/anti-normal maneuvering to get there. You can treat it like you would an interplanetary flight - first burn to get out to its orbit, followed by a correction burn and the ascending/descending node to adjust your plane and make any final other burns you need. What specifically are you having issues with? If it's the transfer, watch the video that wasmic was kind enough to link in.

I did not include those test points in my tally, but I have the next portion of my entry ready to go, so I'll just add them in there. Speaking of... Pretty much just did the test flight around Mün. I've discovered a design flaw with the lander that I will be fixing before the next mission - odd, because I could've sworn I added a Gravioli Detector to the descent stage at some point. I'll also claim the points for an Ares I and Ares V used in a Münar mission at this point, since I sent both a Scorpio and Katapugon to Münar orbit. Not much left to do now with R&D. EDIT: Never mind on the science; I remember having some discussion of removing it entirely and I see that it's not on the scoring chart in the first post anymore. I really need to update my hardcopy, it seems. EDIT EDIT: Okay, I see them now; they've been pulled out into their own category. So never mind on the never mind. I'll be quiet now. Glad you liked the lander design, BTW. I'm just glad somebody mentioned that I-beam trick to me a couple of weeks ago... PREVIOUS SCORES: Design 59, Mission 15 NEW POINTS CLAIMED: Design +0 (59), Mission +7 (22) All Points Previously Achieved in the Following Categories: Crew Launch Vehicle (Thanatos 7) Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Thanatos Heavy 7) Crew Vehicle (Scorpio 7) Space Station - Scorpio/Thanatos Munar Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +0 pts Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1) Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (either Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2) Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2) Duna Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +0 pts. Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop the Duna lander to remain on Duna as a permanent outpost. The Duna landing mission should include pressurized seats for 1.5 times your crew size (round up). Eg. If your Duna lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Duna lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2) R&D: +7 pts Perform the above Altair test in Munar orbit using EOR mission (+1) Launch an un-Kerballed Duna lander on Ares V into low orbit. Perform an orbital test and descent of the lander (crewed or uncrewed) (+3) Use an Ares I in at least one Munar mission (flyby, orbital or landing) (+1) Use an Ares I in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+1) Use an Ares V in at least one Munar mission (orbital or landing) (+2) Use an Ares V in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+2) Mun - Scorpio/Thantatos/Thantatos Heavy/Katapugon: +0 pts Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2) Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a polar landing (+2) Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair (+3) Return four Kerbals from a Munar landing to Kerbin (+2) Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location. The Altair and Outpost Variant need to be within 100m of each other. (+5) No other mission objectives completed to date.

Did my Münar lander flight tests in Mün orbit for the Constellation Challenge - next up is an actual landing. Began making my cruddy low-tech substitutes for the Zenith series; got subs made for the Zenith II and III. Still working on the others. I'm still going to have to figure out how my workarounds will affect the boosters as a whole - they will be inferior, but usable.

It's happened to me before; I've never been able to do it intentionally, though.

Alright - here's the latest from Crapsack Skunkworks: introducing the Katapugon 7 Münar/Dunar combination lander. Ship's intended to go both Mün and Duna, so I'm claiming points for both here. Despite all the screenshots I took, I never did get one of the Gravioli detector on the descent stage, so I won't claim the science points just yet. Anyway, part 4 of my entry in this challenge: The scoring rules have changed for the Duna lander - the one I've got highlighted in orange below is in question. Did this set of tests do enough to satisfy at least an orbital test of the lander? I'm assuming it was insufficient to prove a landing, so I'm not claiming the points right now. PREVIOUS SCORES: Design 34, Mission 10 NEW POINTS CLAIMED: Design +25 (59), Mission +5 (15) All Points Previously Achieved in the Following Categories: Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Thanatos Heavy 7) Crew Vehicle (Scorpio 7) Space Station - Scorpio/Thanatos Crew Launch Vehicle (Thanatos 7): +2 pts Can carry Orion Block 2 to low orbit without using any fuel from the Orion service module (+2) Munar Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +12 pts Supports 4 crew (+4) Each crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2) Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1) Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (either Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2) 2 stage lander with separate ascent stage (descent stage stays on Munar surface) (+2) Rover bonus: Can deploy at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3) Addition rover: Can deploy a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1) Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2) Duna Lander (Katapugon 7 Series): +11 pts. Lander supports 4 crew (+4) Kerbin Return Vehicle capable of Kerbin return with either direct ascent to Kerbin or Duna Orbit Rendezvous with Kerbin return stage (+3) Rover bonus: Bring at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3) Addition rover: Bring a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1) Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2) Outpost Variant: Develop the Duna lander to remain on Duna as a permanent outpost. The Duna landing mission should include pressurized seats for 1.5 times your crew size (round up). Eg. If your Duna lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Duna lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2) R&D: +5 pts (+8?) Perform a LKO test of an Altair Munar lander. With at least one Kerbal on board, fly an Altair Munar lander at least 100km away from the Orion spacecraft. Dispose of the descent stage, then fly the ascent stage back to the Orion. Transfer the crew to the Orion then robotically control the ascent stage into a re-entry orbit (+3) Perform the above Altair test in Munar orbit using EOR mission (+1) Using an un-Kerballed Duna lander and an EDS on Ares V, perform a high-speed re-entry from at least 15,000km Ap. (+2) Launch an un-Kerballed Duna lander on Ares V into low orbit. Perform an orbital test and descent of the lander (crewed or uncrewed) (+3) Use an Ares I in at least one Munar mission (flyby, orbital or landing) (+1) Use an Ares I in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+1) Use an Ares V in at least one Munar mission (orbital or landing) (+2) Use an Ares V in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+2) Mun - Scorpio/Thantatos/Thantatos Heavy/Katapugon: +0 pts Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2) Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a polar landing (+2) Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair (+3) Return four Kerbals from a Munar landing to Kerbin (+2) Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location. The Altair and Outpost Variant need to be within 100m of each other. (+5) No other mission objectives completed to date.

Largely it depends on mass; the heavier your rover, the bigger the wheels you want on it. Even the little castor wheels are good if your load is light enough. Build it low, build it wide, add reaction wheels, use docking mode: my advice for all rovers in a nutshell.

nhnifong, an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis is called a "screw". Tis a joke, man. One I hate to spoil for everyone else, but... Ninja'd. No, not really; just didn't read some of the later posts...

If you're trying to land on a body without an atmosphere, you can actually set things up kinematically - you know your velocity, you know your mass and you know your thruster output. Because you know that, you can get a rough guesstimate of your acceleration rate (it will change because your mass is decreasing as you fire your engines, but it'll be close enough for jazz). Take that velocity and divide it by your acceleration; that should be the amount of time it would take to go from that velocity to zero. Set things up so you get your periapsis as low and as close to your target point as you can get safely it. Watch the time to periapsis; when the time to periapsis equals the time it would take to zero your velocity, begin burning. You want to adjust the angle of your burn so that your average vertical velocity remains zero (use your rate of ascent/descent indicator gauge - the one right next to your altimeter - to judge this), so that your horizontal velocity becomes zero right at that point of periapsis. Then kill your burn, turn vertical, and land as you would normally. Make adjustments as necessary. For bodies with atmosphere...I haven't figured those out yet.

I've used them before to launch a light probe lander to Mun. By which I mean they were on the asparagus boosters as the sole engine. I don't think I have pics or I'd post a few.

Fuel imbalance is a strong possibility. Another is high center of mass - where is the center of mass on this ship, BTW? That upper set of control surfaces is not helping you out any; I'd suggest losing those.