capi3101

Last night was spent on a rescue-plane design. I figured I'd try to design a plane by winging it, without the formulas I developed for use with FAR. After I got to flying the thing, I remembered why I developed formulas for use with FAR in the first place. Let's just say when it comes to giving a plane enough pitch authority, I suck. Will be going back to the drawing board tonight if I can catch a break for once.

Might be time to break out my list of contacts, silverfox. I know folks that work at the NWC in Norman; I couldn't guarantee anything, of course, but we might be able to sweet-talk them into hosting the model...

^^^ That right there is a thing of beauty, IMHO. Going to have to try that tail setup my own self...how does she handle?

I figure that's a 2.5 meter Service Bay in which you're housing that rover. If it's a 1 meter Bay, at four tonnes you could get away with a Mk-2 sized plane easily. I'd still recommend testing the deployment before going too far out with it, but in the meantime I'm glad we were able to help you out.

I wouldn't suggest a nuclear-propelled tug if you're staying within Kerbin's local system. I'd also suggest you use the protected solar panels - the kind that you can deploy and retract - and make sure they're retracted while you're in atmo (especially much below 45k; higher than that and you're generally okay to have them out, in my experience anyway). Make sure you go in butt-first - your rocket engine can generally take a great deal of heat before it tries to 'splode, and in my experience it's almost as effective as ablator at protecting the rest of your craft. Finally, how low is your aerobraking periapsis? Coming from either of Kerbin's moons, a Pe of between 32.5-35k is what you want; much lower than that and you're probably heading in, higher than that and it'll take an insane number of tries before you get low enough. 60k for aerobraking? Yeah - that's way too high.

Last night I finished mopping up the mess from a couple of days before. Spent a lot of time re-organizing and reclassing probes, stations, etc. into different mission types, so I could better keep track of what was important and what wasn't at this point in my career save. I also reviewed my science archives for Mun to see what still needed to be done there science-wise; I've still got a good deal of harvestable sci from Mun. Hopefully it'd be enough to finish out my tech tree. Also just need another √550k or so to finish upgrading KSC to the max; Tracking Station's the only thing still Level 2. So after taking care of the administrative BS, I launched Jeb and his group of tourists off from the surface of Mun and had them rendezvous with the Munport space station. I might need to look into lowering the station's orbit at some point; right now she's at 150k, way too high for Mun (but where the out-of-fuel Project Peacock was when the station arrived, hence the high orbit). The lander that batch of folks is in is supposed to be permanently assigned to Mun, so I'll need to go pick them up at some point (I'm low on cash, so that needs to be sooner rather than later, probably). That's pretty much it for last night, though I also re-designed my space station refinery module to include a large ore tank for incoming deliveries; I don't have any of those deployed at the moment but they'll be important for maintaining infrastructure in the Kerbin planetary system (especially over Mun; that place makes me guzzle gas for some reason). Right now I'm waiting for a space station to arrive in orbit of Minmus (will happen in two hours) so that I can refuel Bill's Project Peacock craft, which will fix the Sojourner probe over Minmus, which will let the damn thing do its job and let me beginning mining operations on Minmus's surface. I'm also supposed to deliver 400 units of ore from Mun to Kerbin; I've got plans to design a spaceplane capable of the final delivery from LKO to the planet's surface. It occurs to me that I'll probably need to build some kind of craft capable of doing the transfer burn as well. I've got a rescue mission over Kerbin to do; I should be able to knock that one out easily enough, and another one over Minmus which will depend on how soon I can get a ship out there to do it.

Honestly, how much delta-V it saves is solely dependent upon how low the craft is at the time it makes the transfer burn. There was a site out there that explained the Oberth effect in layman's terms and did the math simply; I'll have to find the link again, and when I do I'll edit this post with the link. For now, I'll point you to the Wikipedia page on the subject, suck as that does. I do recall that the savings aren't terribly much - no more than a few hundred m/s, though so often a mission succeeds or fails for want of a few hundred more m/s of delta-V in this game... See, I was thinking 15 was plenty high my own self. I'll have to try that next time I put up a refueling depot up that way.

Folks will generally tell you that the lower your refueling stations are, the more the departing craft will be able to benefit from the Oberth Effect after the refueling operation is complete (TL;DR of the Oberth Effect - it saves you some delta-V in the long run, making your burn inherently more efficient). Myself, I use a 100 km orbit; it's still low enough that it's easy to reach but not so low that you risk rendezvous maneuvers putting you in the atmosphere. I'd say for Kerbin 85-100 kilometers is ideal. By the same token, refueling stations in orbit of Mun and Minmus should be relatively close to their surfaces; I usually put them around 20-25 kilometers if I can at all help it (and I'm not yet convinced whether or not that's too high for Minmus).

Strutting the payload into the bay is the answer - the struts will automatically disengage themselves when you decouple the lander from the docking port. If the idea is to retrieve the lander later, you'll need to think of another solution - such as additional docking ports on the sides of the payload. Otherwise, you'll have unavoidable floppiness (and a strong potential for splodiness) all the way in. Getting those in the correct position is tricky but rewarding if you can manage it. And if you don't have to redock the lander, then struts are all you should need. How heavy is that lander? It looks awful small to be going in a Mk3 Cargo Bay. Also, the wheels of that rover clipping into the lander might give you some trouble later on - have you tested that deployment design on the ground on Kerbin?

Last night I cleaned up the mess from two nights before. I determined that the two tourist contracts lost in the crash of the Raven 7a spaceplane were both two-tourist contracts and that all who were lost didn't affect any more of my ongoing tourist contracts. I had also gotten as much cash out of those contracts as I could've; if there's a bright side to that whole deal, it's that I'm only out 24 rep and a white suit. It's still depressing... So I landed the Ballista spaceplane I'd sent up almost two weeks earlier (its probe cargo is just about to Minmus now, and its design manual says it only needs to stay in orbit for three hours to cool off before landing). Took three tries; the first time I had the fuel mis-balanced and botch the re-entry; had to restart from de-orbit. Second time I botched the landing; had to revert to about 25 klicks off of KSC 27. Third time...well, I got the plane down. It was an ugly landing, but a landing on the Runway nonetheless. I think I don't like the medium-sized landing gears so much - that little twig connecting the wheels to their bay has a tendency to snap really easy in my experience. Also took the time to finish de-orbiting a couple of spent booster stages that didn't want to self-clean for whatever reason. Got some bux back on those. Not much, but every little bit helps. Also upgraded the SPH to Level 3 - finally - so I was able to make use of the Ballista's flaps and other control group goodness... I'm anticipating limited play-time again this evening; I still need to finish going through the clean-up, and I think one of my whitesuits has got a group at Mun that needs to come home sometime in the near future...I'm really kinda discombobulated at the moment. I should start taking notes again.

Had a pretty busy weekend - especially as compared to the last week - and was able to get a lot of loose ends tied up. Jeb's bunch came back from Minmus and successfully docked at Kerbinport; the ship was refueled, a new batch of tourists was loaded into his ship (renamed Bockscar), and they're headed back that way now. Meanwhile, my plan to refuel the Project Peacock 7 in orbit of Mun was successful; the new Munport 7 space station's transfer stage had enough fuel left over to refuel the Peacock successfully and a rescue of Granie commenced, which was successful - despite both the station and the Peacock originally orbiting the Mun in the opposite direction. Also wound up getting paid for putting the space station in orbit, so all is right with the world there. Bill's Project Peacock 7 craft has arrived at Minmus and plans are in the works to refuel his craft so that he can repair the Sojourner probe in orbit of Minmus and mining operations can begin, and at long last Bob has returned from Minmus, collecting 3500 science points on that final sci run to the green minty moon. Aerospikes, RAPIERs, Drone Cores and a few other parts I didn't really want - I'm into the "mopping up" part of the tech tree, finally - were unlocked. Then there was last night. It was a simple plan - send up a Raven spaceplane with two tourists for contract to Kerbin orbit, dock at the space station and bring down Val and two other tourists that were ready to go home. I should've known there'd be trouble after undocking when the craft's RCS thrusters didn't want to fire...but I went ahead with deorbit ops anyway. Quicksaved right before atmospheric interface. FAR bugged out on me sometime during the descent, which became apparent at 15k when the plane decided it didn't want to pull up. Craft broke up and I hit the quickload button...except, it wasn't the quickload button - it was the quicksave button...... Definite facepalm moment there. I'm just hoping the two tourists I picked up weren't from that contract I had to deliver six tourists to their assorted destinations - that one is/was an unmilked cash cow......plus I'm bummed to have lost four tourists and a white suit.

Coming up on 72 hours without KSP...really itchin' to play at this point......

Last night I re-launched a new space station to Kerbol orbit for a contract. It'll arrive in Kerbolar orbit in about two days, and I've got its orbit touching Duna's, so there is a possibility that Duna will pick it up at some point or another. I also launched a Mun Buggy out towards Minmus; two of my engineers snuck aboard, so they'll be joining my intrepid team of wildcatters at Minmus - the first Project Peacock craft with Bill aboard will arrive for refueling at Minmus in six days, then go on to repair the Sojourner probe so that I can get on with drilling. With the majority of my contracts "in progress", I did one final launch of the night, a Project Peacock craft to go rescue Gramie from Munar orbit. Definitely was the wrong choice for the job - the Peacock will need to be refueled in Munar orbit before it can make the rescue attempt, and I currently haven't got that kind of infrastructure in Munar orbit (my focus has been on Minmus)... Tonight's plan is to get that station up into Kerbolar orbit and then use the proceeds to launch a space station core to Mun - the leftover fuel from the transfer, though it should be generally skosh, oughta be enough to refuel the Peacock and de-orbit the station's transfer stage. Seven days until Bob gets back with his last load of Minmus science.

I usually stick with the Inline Stabilizer no matter what size plane I'm building; admittedly, I haven't had much use for the Large ASAS Module as yet - haven't tried building any 2.5 or Mk3 planes lately. Usually house them in either a Service Bay or short Cargo Bay, sometimes with batteries as well depending on if there's room. If I'm sticking them in Cargo Bays, I try my best to leave the sides of the bay clear - the front and back ends of the bay make great mount points for fore-and-aft (i.e. prograde-and-retrograde) firing RCS ports, something a lot of good plane designs lack. They only work if their thrust doesn't hit other part of the plane, of course. Speaking of RCS - if you ever need RCS control for a plane (say, you're building a passenger or fuel ferry and need to be able to dock the thing), stick to the linear ports (the kind that only fire in one direction); use blocks sparingly, if at all. The RCS Build Aid mod is worth its coder's weight in gold bricks - even if you don't use it to help you build a balanced craft that doesn't exhibit unwanted torque from RCS thrusters, it's useful for seeing how far/in what direction your CoM shifts as you fly (see my first post for the importance of that particular phenomenon).

Glad to see you hard at work again, DocMoriarty. I've been meaning to thank you since 0.24; your guide got me to the point where I was finally able to use spaceplanes comfortably. I still get comments about this one I designed from those guidelines back in those days - Mun and back for the cost of fuel: I'm looking forward to seeing the next version of the guide when it's ready. Anyway, last night I caught and successfully landed that piece of space junk I was shooting for from the previous night (one of the flights I had to revert), and then I got another Kerbolar space station contract. Launch to orbit was...wierd. I got the plane into space but then a bug hit where, with engines off and the craft in space, the craft's periapsis began falling and kept on going. Reverted that flight; I'll try again tonight if I get any time to play.

Going to mention that I saw a couple of typos in my original post this morning, and I wouldn't have said anything except that they were the kind of accidental prepositional substitutions that kinda changed what I intended to say. I've gone ahead and fixed them. Changes the "recipe" a tad. I'll also add that having sufficient control of the craft is a thing; DocMoriarty used to recommend 1-2.5 rudders per engine (generally a Standard Canard or Tail Fin) and 1 aileron per ten tonnes theoretical mass (the old style large control surface; I think it got replaced by Elevon 3). Of course those were in the pre-1.0 days so I couldn't tell you if those figures are still good or not. Really, control surfaces are all about how far away they are from the Center of Mass and how big they are (i.e. how much leverage you can get from them). Pitch is the one that has generally given me trouble - ideally your elevators are not in-line with the main wing. If they are (say, with a tail-less delta design), that's the time to also consider a set of canards - ugly or not. And don't overlook the utility of SAS units - A) at some point your plane becomes a rocket and you still have to be able to turn the thing, and anything that can take stress of your control surfaces is generally a good thing. Don't overdo it, of course; one SAS unit is usually enough. DocMoriarty used to recommend 1.5 kN of SAS per theoretical tonne of mass; again that was in the pre 1.0 days and my experience there is that those numbers overdo it these days. But I'll throw it out there nonetheless. Gear: forgot to talk about gear. One at the nose, two in line slightly behind the CoM, and the further apart you can put the two rear gear the better. If you can mount them on a Small Hardpoint on the wings, so much the better - especially if all you've got are Small Gear Bays. Avoid the bush plane gear for spaceplanes; they work okay for low-speed surveyor planes close to KSC though, and they can be used to good effect for low-tech jet-powered "rovers". Rear gear should be set for full braking torque and steering disengaged if possible; front gear should be steering engaged, brakes disabled. The heavier the plane, the larger the gear you're going to want. Don't be afraid to add more rear gear. If you have a problem with tail strikes, consider a set of "kickers" right at the tail; it's kinda cheatsy, but if it saves your plane, well......

Yeah, driving home ainmogel's point, you probably oughta specify that you're talking about spaceplanes. Otherwise you get jerks like us that will point out that SSTO can also refer to rockets... But back to your question: DocMoriarty used to have a downloadable guide to answer your question, and its what got me "over the hump" and into the full plane jockey business prior to 1.0.x. I've just today seen him with a new design for post 1.0.x, so it's possible that guide has been updated or will be in the near future. I'll check. I myself have switched over to FAR at this point but I've tried to keep up with the stock jockeys and what they're rolling with; I'm sure one or more of them will come along eventually. I've got my own recipes for FAR that work, and I'll share them on request. For stock: 1. Start with your payload. That's going to be anything that ain't fuel or engine for the plane. 2. Assume a 25% payload fraction - so multiply the payload's mass by four. That's your theoretical mass. 3. Add one turbojet per fifteen tonnes of theoretical mass, or one RAPIER per thirteen tonnes. If using turbojets, add ~100 kN of rocket thrust per engine (with the higher vacuum Isp the better). 4. For each air-breathing engine, add one intake (does not matter which). Add 150 units of LF per air-breathing engine. 5. For each ten tonnes of theoretical mass, add one unit of lift. (This one I'm shaky on; a stock jockey can and should correct me if this is wrong). 6. Add enough rocket fuel tanks so that your plane has approximately 1800 m/s of delta-V. 7. Balance the intakes to engines, make sure the plane's CoL will remain behind the CoM in flight (though not too far), and if possible try to keep the CoM from moving much at all. 8. Serve chilled, with a slice of lemon.

I've encountered this kind of behavior before; it's a bug, and a really annoying one because it forces you to use SAS (as opposed to it being merely an option). Assuming all things are equal, you need to make sure you've got SAS turned on on both craft. If the target craft is spinning, switch control over to it momentarily and set SAS, then switch back. Unfortunately, in my experience if you've got one craft doing this, they'll all do it. The only permanent workaround I've encountered is to begin a whole new save game. Other possibilities - since you've got mods, I'll recommend try Docking Port Alignment Indicator and RCS Build Aid as two to add. Both make the docking process far easier, one by helping with port alignment, the other by helping to better balance RCS thrusters (that one is also surprisingly helpful if you ever want to journey into the realm of spaceplane design).

Didn't have a lot of time to play over the weekend. I got Jeb's Stratofortress 7a craft refueled and affected a successful rendezvous and docking with the Kerbinport space station; I renamed the craft Bockscar for good measure. Jeb swapped out his current compliment of tourists for a new load and they're back on their way out towards Minmus; they should arrive in 12 days. I also put a Ballista satellite around Kerbin for a contract; I should probably land its launch plane now... The rest of my weekend got...reverted. I had a contract to go do some gravity readings about 150 klicks southwest of KSC and I designed a multi-mode rover to do the job. Naturally I got it going too fast when it hit the highlands and it nosed into the terrain. Did a revert...and it took me back to Bockscar getting ready to make the transfer burn to Minmus. Facepalm moment there. Decided to decline that gravity reading contract the second time around and it was replaced with a "haul crap from orbit" contract. The crap in this case turned out to be a Mk2 Lander Can, which wigged out my Claw when I freed the pivot point and caused the whole thing to snap off. That flight's been reverted to launch; I'll make another attempt at it hopefully tonight if possible.

Last night I sent up a Fuel Base module to rendezvous with Jeb's Stratofortress 7; that's not what that module was designed for but it did the job admirably. Jeb now has a full tank of gas and is ready to complete his rendezvous with the Kerbinport 7 space station - which at this point is completely on the opposite side of Kerbin. So I get to kill a few orbits getting him into position. Might be enough time to finish doing a few other things. Honestly, I need to find more time to play the game...

Cargo bay is useful for a number of things - solar panel storage is one of them, and one I use extensively. They also make a dandy place to mount fore-and-aft firing RCS ports (uni-directional ports, not blocks) so long as you keep the sides of the bay clear (i.e. nothing in the line of thrust); not many other exterior surfaces on a spaceplane lend themselves readily to fore-and-aft RCS thrusters.

Had another satellite contract to fulfill, so I delivered it to orbit via another Ballista 7a spaceplane. The probe is on its way towards its apoapsis at the moment; it'll arrive sometime tomorrow. Meanwhile, Jeb and company have returned to Kerbin's orbit. Owing to grand stupidity on my part, they're stuck in a 200x71 orbit about 5 degrees off the plane of the Kerbinport 7 space station; they missed the Waldorf-Astoria station by 20 klicks. Out of gas - so a refuel mission will be in the works for this evening. Bob's still on his way back from Minmus; Bill's on his way there, and both of those flights will arrive at their respective destinations in about nine more days.

V-tail design; I think it's too big as it is. Using FAR. I will give the less dihedral a shot. Pumping fuel forward helped last night; for some reason I have in my notes to have the fuel balanced during re-entry but I might shift it forward early and see if that helps matters.

I remembered last night why I hated the Ballista 7a probe delivery plane so much; I somehow have managed to create a design that exhibits Dutch Roll. Flew great during launch, probe delivery was success, re-entry no sweat, no problems whatsoever until it came time to land the sunuvabitch. Took eight tries to get it right... Anyway, that's what I did last night - launched a probe for contract out towards Minmus. It will arrive in eleven days and I did finally get the plane down intact. Tonight I'll do it again, except for a probe orbiting Kerbin out past Mun's orbit. I'll have to delay the plane's re-entry a bit; Jeb and company aboard his Stratofortress 7 are due to hit atmo in five hours, so I may be doing that as well.

In the game's settings, look for an option labelled "Flight UI" (I'm not sure which tab it is; my brain is saying "Graphics" but I'm thinking that's not right). The default setting is "small"; adjusting it will increase/decrease the nav ball's size. Of course, it'll also increase the size of the altimeter, etc. EDIT: Ninja'd.