WafflesToo

So the question becomes which way costs the most dV: multiple engines adding to your non-fuel mass, or lost efficiency from losing the advantage of the oberth-effect? I'm genuinely curious and I'd like to see how the math stacks up.

Okay, the wording of the rules had me confused. My usual is a two- or three-stage launcher (depending on payload) with the outer rockets feeding a center one like I did here: This style of launcher will be okay then?

/facepalm I really can't decide if that is the single most awesome thing I've ever seen or the most pathetic Squad? Game's broken... you gonna fix that?

Off-center drag seems to make a big difference. A lot of my spaceplanes perform fine flying by themselves but when I have a load strapped to their back they want to flip end-over-end exactly like you described. I think its because your flight surfaces rapidly lose effectiveness as you approach and pass 10km and the drag from the probe is off-centered from the thrust-line. Here, watch the pitch-control indicator in the bottom-left. The plane flies nose-heavy at take-off, but as I pass the 10k mark it's almost all the way pitched-down trying to keep the plane from flipping nose-over-tail to the point I have to turn on the RCS system to keep the plane controllable. The probe only masses about 600 kg, but the landing gear alone mass 1.5 tons so it can't be the off-centered mass causing the trouble, the only thing I could ever figure out is it must be the off-centered drag from the probe. I don't know if it's much assistance, but I hope it at least helps you understand the problem you're facing.

LOL! Sorry, not laughing at you, but with you. My experience with FAR is pretty much the same as yours was. Where I had the most fun was tooling around Kerbin in a sub-sonic aircraft (get it trimmed right and you can fly a straight line just by feathering the throttle). Anything supersonic or hypersonic really didn't do much but exercise my vocabulary of "power-words". The game stopped being fun so into the recycling bin it went. 'grats on your flight. Neat looking bird.

Yes, if you do it all in one burn your losses will be tremendous. But you can minimize them by splitting your burns across multiple orbital passes.

Pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. It really comes down to how patient you are and how far in advance you're willing to plan ahead. Personally, most of my interplanetary has been with ion-powered probes so even the most overburdened LV-N feels like driving a sports car to me

Are parallel-stage launchers allowed or does it absolutely have to be a series-staged launcher? I only ask because my most successful launchers are parallel-stage while my most successful fireworks displays have been large series-staged launchers

KER really is a nice tool, but I recommend doing it yourself a few times to get a feel for it. That way when KER spits out a bad result you should be able to spot it.

I think there's a reason they didn't win the contact XD

When Scott did it he had a pre-planned flight profile and flew the mission using a stopwatch... the part of the mission that impressed me the most was when he went "off-script" with that midflight course correction burn. Don't get me wrong, the whole attempt was two-fisted awesome from beginning-to-end, that was just the most awesome.

Yeah, that's why I was asking out we could bring multiple landers along... Although now I'm thinking about maybe using a modular lander so I'm not waiting massive amounts of fuel setting my Tylo lander down on Minmus XD

Looks pretty bad. If you were on a side-grade I think you might have a chance... I'd say go with capi3101 and Skorpychan's advice. and maybe start planning that rescue mission.

Well, sort of took your advice here. I did some test-flights and the Piper is too heavy and doesn't like low-throttle, so I added a second fuel-tank onto my little 'Cub' practice plane and went for it Made this short video, only about five minutes (or you can just skip to the end for the Mission Report if you'd prefer). (oh Windows Movie Maker... why do you hate my efforts at sound editing?!)

Sounds tedious... but in a good way I may need to attempt this. Are we only allowed to bring one lander with us? Or can we bring several so they can be optimized for different planets?

Weeeeeirrrrrrd... That sounds like a bug to me

Believe me... yours wasn't the opinion I was criticizing

What's the problem with it as it is? I've flown dozens of flights with it just fine without hacks and cheats. If you don't like it then just stick with the LV-N.

Thanks. I was going to dump the oxidizer before taking off. This is just one of those plane's. Been tinkering with it since 17 and pretty well have it perfected. Set the trim and I can fly it just by feathering the throttle.

Is it alright if I used my spaceplane for this if the aerospike is disabled prior to take-off?

I was worried about the new Mun terrain as well when 21 first came out, but after a few landings I find it really isn't that bad. Just forced me to step-up my game a little. I'm noticing that I'm watching my landing site almost as much as my altimeter and navball. If I notice I'm going down into some really rough stuff then I start shifting.

The trolls come marching one-by-one Hurrah, Hurrah The trolls come marching one-by-one Hurrah! Hurrah!

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Did that for both my Minmus ion lander challenge and to power a Duna probe bus. I noticed that too but honestly I thought I was just getting lucky with the angles. Perhaps more experimenting is in order. Ah yes! Powering Kethane miners, I'd forgotten about that. Hmmmmm... I should install that for 21 while I still have the chance shouldn't I?

I don't like them for ion probes personally; they have a terrible power/mass ratio. I can get far better TWR and mission DV using the OX-4s, though you have to get creative with piloting sometimes.