RTK

no one mentioned landing if one was to bounce during landing well the answers are obvious. I know about the noodle effect hence why it is a rigid design or even very small...guess I should have mentioned I have clocked over 500hrs majority building planes, I may not be using the correct terms that is I actually have a life outside of KSP. assumptions are a bad habit and even harder to break.

Hi, Just wondering if it is normal a plane regardless of how small and rigid the design is that they appear to bounce so much? just recently this issue continues to plague me for all plane designs regardless or how small or rigid they are in .25 KSP with FAR. Not sure if it is an issue with installation or what, not a great deal of time to go through thousands of pages of text either. cheers

Tweak the control surfaces in SPH by RMB on the various flaps etc. tail rudder should control Yaw only so deselect the Pitch and Roll on the Tail Rudder. Flaps on the wings should only control Pitch and Roll so deselect Yaw for the flaps on wings. Also you may need to strut your plane to ensure it is rigid and you may need to do a few trial take-offs to find the right amount for the "control maximum" setting on your flaps to find the right balance for smooth flying and take-off. I hope this helps I'm recovering from a heavy night so excuse the poor format etc

Gatecrasher entry as FAR user here....lol was fun to do though

@zinifinion - I know I am awesome and resolve issues rather than muddy the waters like some on this site but we won't mention anyone particular,

@Gallexme - in relation to the wings going crazy it could be your control surfaces. in SPH right click on relevant flaps and reduce the Control Maxi, also set your wings flaps to be inactive for Yaw, also set your rudder to be inactive for Pitch and Roll, SAS is highly likely not the cause of the wings going crazy. I found on my test plane which was really light and quick build (so not really well designed on purpose) I had to reduce control maxi almost right down. in relation to the Frame rate drops that is something else causing the problem, I'm only running FAR mod and no others with no performance issues in KSP .23 I hope the above helps, it is only a suggestion I have as I recently experienced the wings going crazy once I got into flight.

zinfinion - its a red herring thinking the issue I had was with SAS or ASAS, thanks for the info but have read the wiki previously as well at launch of .21 even remember watching a few of scotts videos in which he went over the SAS within .21 my post is clearly commenting the resolution was with the control surfaces nothing to do with SAS or ASAS

Fenrirwolf - No it was not SAS and general rule of thumb I go by is the following in relation to SAS/ASAS SAS - great for rockets without wings, no good for planes as they have more control surfaces, SAS is only a counter for spin generated by rocket thrust. ASAS - great for planes and only worthwhile on rockets if canards are in place, otherwise just use SAS for rockets As mentioned in OP I have been using KSP for a while as well FAR I think since KSP .19 and remember reading the above somewhere within the forums or watching a youtube way back in the early days. I have not checked my rule of thumb in a long time by attaching SAS to a rocket with canards being required for stability to see if canards are employed by SAS. As stated though the above is only a personal rule of thumb I work by as I heard it a long time ago and it works for me Control surfaces etc are more what FAR is impacted by so I will be now including if the plane takes off no problem but has issues in flight I will start to severely tweak the various control surfaces depending on what the situation is. This latest version of FAR I was not use to the UI and that is what got me stuck. Cheers

Further investigation alone and playing with the new settings interface has given me the answer, UI def needs improvement but will leave that to the developer to figure.

Hi All, So I am not new to KSP or FAR however since updating to KSP .23 and using the latest FAR v.12.3 I am able to launch planes however once flight is achieved my planes rock side to side vigorously. In other words the flaps just go crazy trying to keep the plane in balanced flight. I am not use to the new interfaces with the updating versions so I may not have the correct selections for Tail vs wings or that is what I assume, however I have attempted to tweak various settings to no avail. I have also confirmed with using FAR stock craft that they fly correctly so obviously a setting or something. and yes compared the settings of the stock FAR craft to self-made and regardless of the simplistic designs I am employing and setting very similar/same to FAR stock craft no success is being had I would post a pic however I have no success in doing so as steam seems problematic for this. Also as stated any self designed plane are having issues and this would include very basic designs. Summary: Take off can be achieved and going straight down the runway is not an issue Once either approx 120 meters altitude achieved or certain speed reached (hard to tell which) planes rock vigorously side to side and flaps all go crazy Spent the whole time since .23 KSP and compatible FAR on this sole issue Mods I am running is only FAR. If I use KSP without FAR I do not have this issue however I kind of refuse to play KSP without FAR as atmosphere is ridiculous in the stock KSP game. I have tralled the how to and FAR forum and just can not find anything of real use however the FAR posts goes up to 200+ pages (I think) and using search function within forums is well not really useful unless many hours can be applied to sift through. Cheers

I usually find it is around 135 - 160 m/s and a 5 - 10 degree pitch for touch down. Just keep in mind each plane has their own quirks. Also don't get worried about not having much thrust on as remember you want to land not fly so I usually glide my approach in (using FAR Mod allows a certain amount of glide) and only give a tiny amount of thrust for various reasons, mainly to increase the length of glide and/or not to just fall out of the sky on to the runway. Generally a well designed plane will have the landing gear lower at the back than the front as this gives free lift for take off and you will always want the back to touch down first when landing not the front. Once on the runway kill engines and tap 'B' for brakes until speed reduces safely and then either hold 'B' or click for brakes to be on. First SSTO I did with return to Kerbin was an easy landing as almost just like various flight sims I use to play.

Hi All, Ok pretty much resolved unfortunately CoL and CoM do not update live as Hodo has already pointed out generally either reloading or launching and reverting back to assembly will update these correctly. Also in relation to wings being ripped from the craft it is a case of figuring out the best way to lift a craft with even spread, I thought I had that down pat but alas was caught out on missing a wing connector above and below the craft design. Strange as it is after using FAR for such a long time and only recently getting caught with this issue just goes to show others the more you play the more complex designs will become. Also what appears to be a massive failure can be easily resolved with one or two parts, just have to be right ones at the right places. FAR does make the craft more sensitive/realistic during flight and making planes with it is much easier for me alas spent 3/4s of the day mucking about without FAR and actually found myself installing promptly after about 4 hours of failure using vanilla KSP....lol Cheers again for the thoughts and inputs all,

Thanks for the input all I have decided that I will return to vanilla and do some further comparisons between vanilla and FAR as I believe something quirky is going on with the CoM and CoL indicators within the SPH and it is possible the various upgrades to the mods may have caused some inadvertent bug. All suggested above have been carried out and it is correct FAR requires much less surface area of wings to generate lift however I could only place 1 wing piece anything further would tear off, leading me to thing it is a conflict/bug of some type. Will update this post again in a few hours time after reverting back to vanilla and only using FAR hopefully will be able to shed light. May re-build an earlier designed 3 man SSTO craft using vanilla stock while I have the chance as flying it was a treat and not to mention the ease to glide back down to Kerbin from orbit and land at KSC so some may be interested. Thanks again all, will update again soon.

Hi All, So been getting a little issue with wings being ripped off my plane designs and is sending my mind in circles as to the issue/cause. Mods I have are FAR, Aviation Lights and Kethane and yes I love FAR. Unfortunately I am unable to post pics. The general issue appears to be weight however regardless of where I position wings on more complex crafts where CoM has either moved up or down slightly the wings are promptly removed upon take off. Here is a summary of what I have attempted: CoM and CoL on same level with CoL a touch forward or back and even smack on CoM - no success CoM with CoL below and no success CoM with CoL above with no success also attempted with overkill on wing design in which ridiculous amount of lift with no success So if people could share their thoughts and experiences on why wings would be pulled from a craft upon take off would be most great as I would rather understand than be told how to fix a particular craft. I have searched through the tutorials and searched the forums endlessly (spent about 3 days searching in total) looking for more information or similar experiences to no avail and I have only come across this issue more frequently while using FAR on complex crafts. Cheers

Yeah space planes did my head in for a bit, and definitely I have had the same experience in which making a space plane with what I presumed was perfect CoL & CoM however upon taking off it would roll. Found this issue was caused by placement of wheels at the back of the plane. Most likely if you are placing your wheels onto the wings you will come across this issue often and will need to find the right spot of the wheels. My only tip to resolve quickly is to firstly build the body of your plane (plane without wings) chuck the wheels on and test to see if it is stable down the runway. The wings only add lift and a bit of weight to your plane, however sometimes will need to place on the wings in which it becomes a case of trial and error.