Developing Duna (pic heavy) - ^_^ with Part 11 ^_^

[Geschosskopf]

On 4/28/2016 at 3:06 AM, Brotoro said:

So...The Duna mission is going to have to wait until the problems with rover wheels are resolved before I will move forward. So let's end with a picture of one Duna Lander/Hab 1, with my flag symbolically lying in the dust after the 1.1 upgrade.

How well were you able to climb hills with default Traction Control?  I don't get anywhere that way.  It's like the slowing of the rover gives a false positive of wheel slip for the throttle setting you're using, so the Traction Control throttles down the wheels in a self-reinforcing feedback system that quickly brings you to a halt.  At least that's my experience.  But I've been out of town for the better part of a week, totally missed 1.1.1, and haven't yet had a chance to play with 1.1.2.  Maybe that's changed.

I'm glad you're having reasonably good luck with RTG power.  The main drawback with them is the price (in career games), which makes RTG-powered rovers pound-for-pound by far the most expensive vehicles in the game.  So if you have to worry about money, fuel cells might be about the only option.  Most rovers just lack the acreage of surface area to get by with solar cells.

[Brotoro]

For the rover mission up the mountain with the standard wheels, I used the default Traction Control (and friction override to 5). I didn't do as well that time as I did later with the Grippy Tires when I was using Traction Control set to zero (and friction override set to 5)...but part of that may have had to do with the different wheels, and part of it may have been experience from the previous climb (and being more careful when needed).

Certainly RTGs are expensive, and fuel cells are the poor man's option...although refueling would be a bother if you want to do long-range rover missions since we lack hoses (but I assume most people don't do drives as long as mine). I've never played career, and my whole kerbal society is dedicated to space travel and a strong nuclear industry...so I like RTGs and have all the money I need to pay for them in my sandbox. The price on RTGs would BE cheaper if your nuclear industry was geared up to crank out thousands and thousands of the things. Also, you don't need to have as many RTGs as you might think if you just divide the wheel energy needs by the RTG output...because that's a maximum energy draw by the wheels, so for a lot of places (like mostly level areas) you won't draw that much. And in the places where you DO draw lots of power, batteries and frequent breaks can get you through.

Still, I miss the good ol' days when rover wheels were more effective. I was testing the new BirdDog 1.1 on Laythe, and the wheels simply can't drag that plane up slopes like they used to be able to do. It takes a lot more contour driving...and I can't use Phys Warp to make things take less time for me because the rover/plane jitters crazily at 2X with 1.1.2 wheel physics.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Brotoro

[Geschosskopf]

59 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

Also, you don't need to have as many RTGs as you might think if you just divide the wheel energy needs by the RTG output...because that's a maximum energy draw by the wheels, so for a lot of places (like mostly level areas) you won't draw that much. And in the places where you DO draw lots of power, batteries and frequent breaks can get you through.

That's a critical observation and something I think is different in 1.1.  In the real world, of course, once you overcome inertia and have some momentum, the energy needed to maintain cruise should be less than what it took to get started.  But I've never before known KSP to respect any 2nd Law regardless of source.  Used to be, if you wanted the wheel's max speed on level ground, you needed its max amount of EC/sec, otherwise you just went slower.  Thus, thinking things were still like that, I was budgeting EC for max consumption all the time, which is why I was turning to fuelcells from the get-go.

 

59 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

Still, I miss the good ol' days when rover wheels were more effective. I was testing the new BirdDog 1.1 on Laythe, and the wheels simply can't drag that plane up slopes like they used to be able to do. It takes a lot more contour driving...and I can't use Phys Warp to make things take less time for me because the rover/plane jitters crazily at 2X with 1.1.2 wheel physics.

The inability in 1.1.x to use physics warp with rovers is a HUGE problem, which points to the instability of the whole wheel/leg system we have now.

[Chuck U. Farley]

Hey Brotoro. They fixed the wheel physics in 1.2 . . . will you be returning to this story?

[mattssheep4]

Also, the SSTV signal works again, and the Magic Boulder is back, and a bunch of other stuff is pretty cool, too.

[mattssheep4]

@Brotoro I'm still hoping you continue Developing Duna and Long-term Laythe!