What have you learned to do without an autopilot?

[LABHOUSE]

Nothing, I used mechjeb for a short while, but just to tell delta V and all those stats mainly, other than that I used it a few times to limit vertical speed and to try to redock to my ship (launched same time, and mechjeb could do nothing, just armed into the ship hard until it broke).

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Does landing close enough to dock count as docking? I cannot dock any other way (can do rendezvous, just not correct speed).

[RainDreamer]

Ground docking, maybe? Or just ground assemble?

I think most of the time people consider orbital docking as "docking" though.

[DDay2021]

I've learned how to do most of those items manually, Interplanetary Transfers, and Gravity assists I have yet to do. I originally installed MJ but was too ignorant to use it properly and too apathetic to read up on it.

[federicoaa]

The only thing I used mechjeb to learn is rendezvous, but once I got it i started doing it by myself.

[tater]

Shouldn't there be a "I've never used an autopilot for anything" category (or "I've learned everything without an autopilot")?

[Red Iron Crown]

Shouldn't there be a "I've never used an autopilot for anything" category (or "I've learned everything without an autopilot")?

Tick them all, vote.

[Denks]

I could probably learn to do everything fairly quickly, I'm just not patient enough for all of that.

[Starhawk]

I think the poll results are interesting.

I didn't expect nearly that proportion of respondents to have flown aircraft.

At first glance, I was surprised by the discrepancy between rendezvous and docking. But it made sense after I thought about it for a second.

The 'Land at Specific Location' isn't surpising. I would have created separate options for airless and atmospheric bodies if the poll system allowed more choices. I expect surface base building to become much more of a significant activity with the introduction of ISRU (at least in my game), so this will become an even more significant skill.

I find precision landing on most airless bodies is moderately easy if you're willing to be inefficient. Atmospheric bodies on the other hand...

After countless spaceplane flights I can get quite close to KSC, and with spaceplanes, quite close is good enough.

If doing chutes and engines I find it much trickier.

If I did it over, I would include an 'all of the above' option. And probably left out the phrase 'without an autopilot'.

Live and learn.

[Slam_Jones]

Never used MechJeb, personally. I see no reason to attack those who use it, either: to each their own!

I personally enjoy the challenge of making the maneuvers myself. Admittedly, I'll make liberal use of quicksave/load when attempting aerocaptures, but otherwise I think I've got a decent grasp on all the basics. Once you figure out a few tips for each of em, it's not too hard. My proudest was getting my precision (non-atmo) landings down so well, that I can land modules directly on top of each other.

[sumghai]

I have learnt to do nothing without an autopilot.

Darn it Jeb, I'm a program manager, not a hotshot ace pilot!

[tater]

I did, but the data then doesn't tell what % never used autopilot for anything.

[KerBlammo]

Haven't tried aircraft or the gravity assist yet. When landing on the Mun I can set down in a chosen location (e.g. the middle of a certain crater) but I can't say I've tried a true "precision" landing.

What I can't yet do is rendezvous and docking. I can get in the same plane as the target, I can catch up by orbiting at a lower or higher height as needed but all my attempts at rendezvous have been complete failures. I'd have thought it would be no more difficult than getting to Duna (which I have done many times) but for me at least its much harder.

I do use the MechJeb for this but I want to learn to be able to do it myself as well.

[Skorpychan]

Everything except rendezvous. And while I CAN do it, it takes ages and hurts my brain to manage it.

Docking I learned FROM the autopilot. I got so frustrated with MechJeb's idiocy at it that I just took over and did it myself.

[InterCity]

mechjeb fails hard if you try to dock without rcs. had an funny situation with an mun lander/ rover who could land on Mun then go back to orbit dock with the transfer stage to refuel and land another place. However i only added RCS on two sides so it could move forward and back, up and down but not left and right, then I found the problem i was able to dock manually by rotating 90 degree.

I didn't say I dock with MJ either... B-)

I just launch the stuff in one piece, that's all.

[Hary R]

All of the above, The only thing i use meckjeb's autopilot is precision landing on atmosphere less world.

[TheMoonRover]

Land at specific location: not to 1km, no. I can consistently land close enough to the KSC to get 100% recovery with whichever strategy boosts the recovery value, though.

Interplanetary transfer: yeah, ish. I might not be taking the most efficient trajectories, but I can get there.

Gravity assist: only the simpler things like using the Mun to get to Minmus, using Ike to slow down for Duna, using Jool's moons to slow down so that the aerobrake is less aggressive. I've never deliberately used a planet to reach another planet. I once did it by accident though: there was a probe on its way to Duna, but there was a large error on the Sun/Duna SOI switch, the game suddenly decided to lag severely, time-warp straight through the Duna encounter, end up with a Jool encounter, and I managed to reach a stable orbit around Jool. (Ike: I'm helping!)

As for the rest: no major probelms.

EDIT: Although I learned most of the more complex stuff (docking, landing, etc) from MechJeb, but I've now replaced my copy of MechJeb with KER and PreciseNode.

Edited February 27, 2015 by TheMoonRover

[WWEdeadman]

Everything. I've done all of this, at least once, without ever using an autopilot. I actually never even installed mechjeb, or anything similar. Mostly cause I don't find it fun to watch the game play itself.

[Red Iron Crown]

I've now replaced my copy of MechJeb with KER and PreciseNode.

I've been making a conscious effort to use the AP functions of MJ less so that my piloting skill will improve, but I still find MJ indispensible if only for sensible SAS and some of the utilities. I've been using KER and PreciseNode for a long time, I like KER's presentation of data better and I always make my own nodes. They're complementary, to my mind.

[magnemoe]

I think the poll results are interesting.

I didn't expect nearly that proportion of respondents to have flown aircraft.

At first glance, I was surprised by the discrepancy between rendezvous and docking. But it made sense after I thought about it for a second.

The 'Land at Specific Location' isn't surpising. I would have created separate options for airless and atmospheric bodies if the poll system allowed more choices. I expect surface base building to become much more of a significant activity with the introduction of ISRU (at least in my game), so this will become an even more significant skill.

I find precision landing on most airless bodies is moderately easy if you're willing to be inefficient. Atmospheric bodies on the other hand...

After countless spaceplane flights I can get quite close to KSC, and with spaceplanes, quite close is good enough.

If doing chutes and engines I find it much trickier.

If I did it over, I would include an 'all of the above' option. And probably left out the phrase 'without an autopilot'.

Live and learn.

Surprised that more people are able to dock than to rendezvous, at least in newer versions who let you do nodes after multiple orbits.

Gravity on body you land on are also important for precision landing, On Minmus you can adjust trajectory during decent by burning sideway, even fly on the rocket engine at low trust, you can not do this for an long time on Tylo. Gilly on the other hand is more of an docking opperation, main problem is that you might end up doing an night landing and the overgrown poatoid is rotating so fast.

Question is if using mechjeb for landing indication is considered with autopilot? If you land on an planet with atmosphere and is not interested in +-50 meter accuracy or have rcs for corrections you can do the landing burn with lots less fuel.

For Gilly landings its also very useful, not that mechjeb messes up most of the time if you try to use autopilot for landing.

[g.koster]

Some of these questions are a bid tricky, what do you call gravity assist, is starting a gravity turn and out of atmosphere ad 45 degrees qualify? Or do you mean continuous accelerating max and ending up below 80km in orbit qualify.

What is calling flying an airplane, that you got something from the run way. Or got a plane from horizontal start on the run way into orbit and then safely landed back on the runway count.

And what is the difference between rendezvous and docking. To my opinion you have to rendezvous first before you can do coupling. Some people most have been in agreement with me.

[Red Iron Crown]

Some of these questions are a bid tricky, what do you call gravity assist, is starting a gravity turn and out of atmosphere ad 45 degrees qualify? Or do you mean continuous accelerating max and ending up below 80km in orbit qualify.

A gravity assist or "slingshot" is when you use the gravitational influence and orbital speed of a body to change your trajectory.

What is calling flying an airplane, that you got something from the run way. Or got a plane from horizontal start on the run way into orbit and then safely landed back on the runway count.

I took it to mean flying a plane in general, not necessarily to orbit.

And what is the difference between rendezvous and docking. To my opinion you have to rendezvous first before you can do coupling. Some people most have been in agreement with me.

Rendezvous is getting two vessels close together in very similar orbits. Docking is physically connecting them together. Rendezvous almost always comes before docking, but docking can be done without rendezvous. Edit: An example would be the Apollo Moon landings. Each mission had two docking events but only one rendezvous.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[Wabbit]

I have learned rendezvous, docking, Mun/Minmus transfer, orbital maneuvers and aircraft flying before I knew what Mechjeb was

[Silver_Swift]

Everything except rendezvous. And while I CAN do it, it takes ages and hurts my brain to manage it.

Docking I learned FROM the autopilot. I got so frustrated with MechJeb's idiocy at it that I just took over and did it myself.

Same for me, the only thing I really have to use mechJeb for is interplanetary transfer, but I still use it for rendezvous occasionally, because it is quite tedious to have to do it yourself.

I also often use mechjeb to auto-execute maneuver nodes that I set up manually as it is just much less tedious that way.

I really like that in newer versions of KSP all the features that ease flight control (mechJeb modules, maneuver nodes, pilot skills) unlock gradually, so you have to learn to do complex maneuvering yourself first, but the game doesn't force you to do it for the umphteenth time after you've already proven that you can do it.

[smart013]

Sorry, but in my eyes this thread developed more and more into a bragging contest. Again. I was really happy that these mechjeb threads seem to die out, but i was obvisiously wrong. I know a lot of you guys seem to love to separate the world into camps and distance themselves from other playstyles and their proponents, but this for me is really sad.

Look, nearly every new poster in this forum follows the unwritten code at some time to at least once post something along the lines of "i use mj and/or ker only for the readouts", followed by "i never used mj for anything" followed by "i would never use mj". Gladly most of them stop here, but some "need" to preach to the ksp world about cheating and such.

I have no problem with any of these decisions about anyones own playstyle, as long as there is no preaching, boasting and belittlement of other player going on. But i am really sad that there is some kind of pressure on people going on that seem to think that its important to make any kind of impression on "the community" to get cred, fame and rep.

Tldr: i believe a lot of the postings in this thread are at least in part lies, and i am sad that there again is a climate going on where people get the impression that they have to ban mechjeb or any other mod to get any positive reputation from the community. No, i cannot prove it. But in fact i am sad that so many younger ksp fans seem to think that fishing for reputation in these forums is the most important thing about this game.

Sorry if this sounds bitter or negative, but these kind of bragging contest threads always leave me behind shaking my head. Feel free to ignore it, i am not searching to a fight... and to hell with my "reputation"

Edited February 27, 2015 by smart013

[Red Iron Crown]

^^ I don't know where you're getting any of that from this thread.

As for reputation being somehow tied to rejecting MechJeb, that is silly. I am a longtime MechJeb user and don't seem to have any trouble with people avoiding repping me.