The new and improved ASAS is way better than before.

[Flixxbeatz]

Yup, the new mechanism does a better job of correcting the rocket/lifter's trajectory in case of deviations and holding its position than its predecessor mechanism.

[ThreeMartiniLaunch]

no matter how good SAS is, it cannot save a poorly designed rocket.

[Flixxbeatz]

Can't see anything wrong in the rocket, either.

[BagelRabbit]

Here's what's happening:

You have this big fairing made out of wings on top of the rocket. So, as your rocket ascends, it ascends as if it had giant wings on top and no wings on the bottom (because it does).

That makes the rocket incredibly unstable. It wants to fly backwards. Picture throwing a paper plane with the wrong end forwards, or shooting an arrow that's been flipped and has its feathers pointed away from you. That's what's going on here.

Replacing the fairing panels with structural panels might help, though the best way of doing this (provided you're running stock KSP) is to get rid of the "fairing" altogether. It'll look ugly, but at least it will go to space.

Oh, and adding more SAS torque will help too.

Hoping I won't get necro'd!

-Upsilon

[Tex_NL]

UpsilonAerospace is 100% correct about the wing fairings making it very unstable but you can add reaction wheels until the cows come home, it still won't help you. Yes, you enabled SAS. Yes, the SAS icon is indeed lit on the top right of the navball. But the orientation icons left of the navball are not showing. Your probe core has no SAS capabilities. Either use a pilot Kerbal or a more advanced probe core.

[Gerandar]

How is this SAS's issue? you made a fairing out of wings of course it crashed...

[worir4]

Just wait till 1.0 and your problems will be solved!

[PB666]

Here's what's happening:

You have this big fairing made out of wings on top of the rocket. So, as your rocket ascends, it ascends as if it had giant wings on top and no wings on the bottom (because it does).

That makes the rocket incredibly unstable. It wants to fly backwards. Picture throwing a paper plane with the wrong end forwards, or shooting an arrow that's been flipped and has its feathers pointed away from you. That's what's going on here.

Replacing the fairing panels with structural panels might help, though the best way of doing this (provided you're running stock KSP) is to get rid of the "fairing" altogether. It'll look ugly, but at least it will go to space.

Oh, and adding more SAS torque will help too.

^good advise

[Flixxbeatz]

Been doing fairings out of wings recently on other rockets and flew them successfully into orbit, so...

[sumghai]

Been doing fairings out of wings recently on other rockets and flew them successfully into orbit, so...

How soon do you usually do your gravity turns?

In your OP, you may have made a larger-than-usual turn, where the aerodynamic effects of the wings became strong enough to overcome whatever corrective ability ASAS had.

[DunaRocketeer]

The designs that worked were triple core - the outboard engines may have provided extra control leverage.

[Flixxbeatz]

How soon do you usually do your gravity turns?

In your OP, you may have made a larger-than-usual turn, where the aerodynamic effects of the wings became strong enough to overcome whatever corrective ability ASAS had.

Typically around 8km-12km.

And I'm not doing anything in the OP. It just did it.

[keeper]

I'm confused. Is that sarcasm? Why you immediately go for ground? Your rocket is somehow unbalanced.

When my launches go to one side immediately like that, its usually because of some silly mistake like missing fuel line, but if that's all perfect then it must lay with the cargo, is the center of mass and thrust aligned? Even if your cargo CoM is slightly off, putting it ontop of a rocket will have further consequences however i notice your rocket is quite short. But still.

I would consider rebuilding entirely,

its probably an extra wing on that little fairing contraption thing, i dont know. Dont wings do some some jazzy "lift" forces? ASAS will only help you go where you point, its help is really limited. It aint magic.

BARING in mind the reaction wheels may spin a .5 tonne lander capsule with ease, but a 200 odd tonne launcher, in gravity - on the ground; there's going to be next to no "control" given for your 1.5 kn of energy or whatever.

I personally like SAS as its stands, and hope it wont change, i imagine with squads new aerodynamics SAS will be less useful ( or needed more) , as apparently SAS is already overpowered.

[zarakon]

If you look in the bottom left you can see that the SAS is applying maximum force to try to keep the rocket pointing upward, but it just can't. I can't tell what engines you're using, but if they have no gimbal and you don't have much in the way of reaction wheels, then you simply don't have enough control authority to overcome the wings up top wanting to be behind the rocket

[Slam_Jones]

no matter how good SAS is, it cannot save a poorly designed rocket.

It always comes back to this.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Guys... just sayin... my command beetle goes straight into orbit and it has an oval shaped body made of wings that provide negative lift but the SAS is still enough to hold it in place.

His rocket should fly straight, using wings causes drag if they are symmetrical not the rocket to flip around, case in point, these are in no way symmetrical, i just used SAS to torque it into submission.

I have a better reason for your rocket flying out of control, your fairing is glitched and providing lift on one side but not the other, re build the fairing and use the spaceplane hanger to do it instead of the VAB.

With the amount of crap i build i have noticed a lot of lift glitches in 0.90, are the wings going a brighter white on one side than the rest of the craft?

Edited February 25, 2015 by Roflcopterkklol

[Corw]

Get a proper fairings mod, you hobo

[DunaRocketeer]

Roflcopterkklol, your rocket looks like it works because you've got much more weight towards the bottom of your rocket (fuel tanks) compared to the OP. A fairings mod really is a good idea.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Roflcopterkklol, your rocket looks like it works because you've got much more weight towards the bottom of your rocket (fuel tanks) compared to the OP. A fairings mod really is a good idea.

Naww my rocket works because the command beetle is a VTOL, thing has a good 20 or so reaction wheels inside it. the power of torque.

As for the OP fairings, you are best off using structural parts in stock KSP without FAR, less drag.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Roflcopterkklol

[RocketPilot573]

While the rocket DOES have a design flaw (the fairing), what everyone seems to have missed was the fact that the SAS was only using about 50% rotational power. In the start of the turn it did use 100%, but then it just "gave up." This happens whenever the SAS icon turns to the orange "I give up" icon.

[Rune]

While the rocket DOES have a design flaw (the fairing), what everyone seems to have missed was the fact that the SAS was only using about 50% rotational power. In the start of the turn it did use 100%, but then it just "gave up." This happens whenever the SAS icon turns to the orange "I give up" icon.

Yeah, that mechanic of not locking a stable heading if you can't get there with 50% of your control authority is really infuriating, especially for large SSTOs. Midway through the climb, you correct your inclination a little bit... and the sucker won't hold the previous pitch no matter how you tell it to, so you end up having to pilot the whole thing manually all the way to orbit. And you can't even keep "S" pressed, because you still have control authority to spare. Thank Kod also we have unrealistic magic reaction wheels to turn behemoths into jet fighters... I guess.

Rune. Not applicable to this rocket, which is a mess, but hey, it's definitely something squad should not be proud of.

[Roflcopterkklol]

Yeah, that mechanic of not locking a stable heading if you can't get there with 50% of your control authority is really infuriating, especially for large SSTOs. Midway through the climb, you correct your inclination a little bit... and the sucker won't hold the previous pitch no matter how you tell it to, so you end up having to pilot the whole thing manually all the way to orbit. And you can't even keep "S" pressed, because you still have control authority to spare. Thank Kod also we have unrealistic magic reaction wheels to turn behemoths into jet fighters... I guess.

Rune. Not applicable to this rocket, which is a mess, but hey, it's definitely something squad should not be proud of.

Reaction wheel are just dandy in my opinion.

[RocketPilot573]

Yeah, that mechanic of not locking a stable heading if you can't get there with 50% of your control authority is really infuriating, especially for large SSTOs. Midway through the climb, you correct your inclination a little bit... and the sucker won't hold the previous pitch no matter how you tell it to, so you end up having to pilot the whole thing manually all the way to orbit. And you can't even keep "S" pressed, because you still have control authority to spare. Thank Kod also we have unrealistic magic reaction wheels to turn behemoths into jet fighters... I guess.

Rune. Not applicable to this rocket, which is a mess, but hey, it's definitely something squad should not be proud of.

I played an earlier version recently (the old ASAS), I was amazed at how the rocket just locked in position when I hit "t." Now the SAS just flops.

[r_rolo1]

True, but then the ASAS could easily rip a ship apart if it's heading got too far away from the direction the ASAS wanted to put it in ( that and the bad joint force we had for a long, LONG time ). The current implementation is a hack to prevent that, but TBH I would be VERY disappointed if this does not get fixed in 1.0, for the reasons Rune points above :/

[cpast]

Doesn't 0.90's SAS show the various options for what heading to hold? Why's this rocket not have that?