Satellites?

[Gatekey56]

So Ive had this great game for some time now and well ive always wondered is there any actual use of satellites. I know in real life they would be used to ping signals off one anouther so to increase signal streanth and signal range, I have tossed up a few but it seems to do nothing more then just sit in space orbiting what ever.

[worir4]

There isn't much use for them in stock unless you use them to complete contracts or put science parts on them. If you are interested, there is a mode called remote tech which requires you to put up a system of satellites so that you can keep in contact with interplanetary vessels.

Here is a link

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/83305-0-90-0-RemoteTech-v1-6-3-2015-02-06

Edited March 1, 2015 by worir4

[Schmonzo]

well, you can put experiments on them, but no satellites don't do anything. You can use RemoteTech so your satellites actually serve a purpose. The devs don't want the game to have too much depth so you can't loose and people of every age can play it without having to learn more than how to get to orbit.

edit:ninjaed

[Sampa]

There isn't much use for them in stock unless you use them to complete contracts or put science parts on them. If you are interested, there is a mode called remote tech which requires you to put up a system of satellites so that you can keep in contact with interplanetary vessels.

Yeah, to add to this, i also no that there is a mod that forces you to set of a gps satellite network.

[Schmonzo]

Yeah, to add to this, i also no that there is a mod that forces you to set of a gps satellite network.

Why not give the links with posts like that? way more helpful: Figaro Gps.

Also the mod does not force you to built a gps network, it gives you the chance to.

[Sampa]

Why not give the links with posts like that? way more helpful: Figaro Gps.

Also the mod does not force you to built a gps network, it gives you the chance to.

Mostly because i'm on my phone doing this so no way to copy and paste. Also, i just forgot the name of it.

[micha]

Antenna Range (simplified RemoteTech) and ScanSat are 2 brilliant mods which give satellites purpose while.

Sorry no links due to phone..

[Pecan]

RemoteTech makes things a lot more complicated in the beginning, while solving a communications problem you only have if you install RemoteTech. Note that you can't control unmanned probes AT ALL if they are out of communications so mission-planning and preparation before you have a full satellite infrastructure is quite a bit more complex. Once you've solved the problems RT introduces you're back to operations as normal.

SCANSat (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/80369-0-90-SCANsat-v10-0-Real-Scanning-Real-Science-at-Warp-Speed%21-Jan-29), on the other hand, adds mapping satellites which tell you the surface height, slope and biome. This is useful for science, or just safer, landings and it's fun to get extra information from the game without extra complications. SCANSat also locates and identifies 'anomalies' (Easter eggs in the game), if you want to hunt those. NB: if you don't want to work for it, http://www.kerbalmaps.com/ gives you the same information outside the game.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Pecan

[SalehRam]

After few days of playing with RemoteTech, I'd say just go for it... since 4 days all what I was doing is setting up a relay network that ensures 100% connectivity to KSC all the time, then I went to the Mun, next thing I will setup 1 or 2 satellites around Minmus...

It gave me a lot of work and fun to do, and also some purpose and ideas to build a space program and have some challenge in career mode...

Also, it will make you admire and respect satellites more

Note though, I did not like the signal delay thing in RemoteTech, so I disabled it from the config files... I just wanted to have a real use of satellites without the extra complications that come with it, because I still want to keep it simple

Have fun

[Tank Buddy]

Unmanned spacecraft end up being much lighter, meaning you can either make a smaller craft to get the same thing done (vs a manned one) or put a lot more junk on it for the same total dry mass.

[basic.syntax]

Worir4 pretty much said it, this comment about the "stock" game expands on what he wrote: without contracts, there isn't much point to them.

A couple contract types in career mode require science reports above a certain orbital altitude. After you have done the "Explore [name of planet / moon]" contract, its helpful to permanently station a satellite or two with a temp probe. (A Probe core, temp probe, battery, solar panel, antenna, fuel tank, and light engine at minimum.) I recommend polar orbits, because they let you cover the entire sphere as it rotates. When these contracts pop up, you'll already have something in orbit. As you unlock other science in the tech tree, you may want to add landing legs to the probe design, adding the seismic scanner specifically, just for low gravity moons where you can land and take off easily.

[theoneandonlyboiler]

Satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless no matter what mod you use. Why? Because they return much less science than manned missions do. I actually thought about installing remote tech for a while, until I realized that it will serve no purpose as I will never send a probe to any of the planets. All my missions so far have been manned, and all future missions will be too. Yes, manned missions require heavier ships, but then you build a bigger rocket.

It would be really nice if Squad would come up with some incentive to build unmanned spacecraft. In the real world, the reason because we send probes instead of astronauts are restrictions in technology, knowledge, budget or time, neither of which are of any concern in KSP outside of the contracts in career mode. I think it’s a real shame, because I was looking forward to building probes and rovers and stuff and send them ahead of my manned flights. But then I realized that it would just suck up precious time and that I would progress much faster by always sending Kerbonauts.

A good game should give you reason to use all its features. Now I’m not saying KSP is not a good game, I freaking love it despite every shortcoming it may have. But having all those possibilities for unmanned exploration there but no reason to use it unless the game tells you to do so through a contract (which by the way can be rejected by the player) is really a huge oversight in my eyes.

Edited March 2, 2015 by theoneandonlyboiler

[Wanderfound]

A robotic probe can hit any body in the Kerbin system for < √20,000, with early-game tech. It's much easier to do than sending a Kerballed mission.

[SalehRam]

Well, playing with probes and remote tech can fill a nice play style, where you want to make a bit realistic with career mode, having the need of a constant funding source, and the fact that it is dangerous to send a manned flight immediately to a new location or place, makes the use of probes and satellites much more fun, but then again, if you want to go a bit more real life-ish...

I hated remote tech since I saw it because at that time it limited my play style, but now I actually WANT remote tech because I want to use satellites more.

So at the end it is a matter of what and how do you want to play KSP...

[pxi]

Remotetech and Scansat are two mods that are essential for my playstyle. Without them satellites just don't seem to serve much function IMO, which is a pity really.

I would argue that satellites are an extremely massive part of the human space program.

[theoneandonlyboiler]

A robotic probe can hit any body in the Kerbin system for < √20,000, with early-game tech. It's much easier to do than sending a Kerballed mission.

So then you wait until you have the tech necessary to send kerballed craft. There is no need to go to other planets before you have the tech to go kerballed. There is enough science between Kerbin, the Mun and Minmus to at least almost completely unlock all techs. Which is actually another problem. Why should I even go to other planets? There is no need for doing so other than fullfilling contracts. And since I'm playing science mode I'm doing it solely for the challenge, but once you got there and back, the challenge is gone. Again, going to other planets should not be something you can choose to do or not, it should be a requirement if you want to progress beyond a certain point.

I mean even a sandbox should give you reasons to do things. If you end up doing stuff just for the hell of it or if you have to force yourself to do essentially useless things for the sake of realism, then there is something wrong.

[Vindaloo]

Satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless no matter what mod you use.

Completely disagree.

ScanSat, for example, provides you with a bunch of information you can only get from a satellite (doubly true if you also play with Kethane or Karbonite). Furthermore, if you play with TAC Life Support mod, then you will want to think twice before sending Kerbals anywhere. My standard approach is to send an unmanned mission to investigate the target body first (and beam back all the science), THEN send a manned mission to gather the remaining science. The added benefit is that the initial unmanned mission can be sent with extra supplies, in anticipation of the manned mission.

[Greenfire32]

Currently, satellites, rovers and off-world bases serve no real purpose. However, once the next update lands, we'll have resources and I'm hoping all three of those things get some serious love in that respect.

[theoneandonlyboiler]

ScanSat, for example, provides you with a bunch of information you can only get from a satellite (doubly true if you also play with Kethane or Karbonite).

Ok, didn't know that mod. Had a short look at it and the information indeed seems to be useful. However it is not vital (as in the game plays fine without that information).

Furthermore, if you play with TAC Life Support mod, then you will want to think twice before sending Kerbals anywhere.

I definitely plan on using TAC once 1.0 comes around (didn't want to bother with it during my learning phase). But I will do this for realism, I don't see how it makes satellites and probes useful. I mean you know how long each mission will take and so you just have to pack enough supplies. And as for sending supplies ahead. Why not just take enough with you? I mean it's much less hassle to just send one larger ship than two smaller ones. It's the same reason why I don't see me sending a probe to get some science and then Kerbonauts to get the rest if I can get it all in one single mission. It's just wasted time.

[celem]

Satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless no matter what mod you use. Why? Because they return much less science than manned missions do[...]Yes, manned missions require heavier ships, but then you build a bigger rocket.

It would be really nice if Squad would come up with some incentive to build unmanned spacecraft.

The career mode does provide incentive for some of these missions at least. It does depend somewhat on how you actually like to play KSP.

Firstly manned missions do return a chunk more science, provided you have a couple of key building upgrades. If you cant surface sample then theres no point sending kerbals to my mind, it just means a return visit, if you cant even EVA then I wouldnt be landing off Kerbin. A probe lander that runs sci-instruments and then returns to kerbin yields a nice reward, just because its a probe doesnt mean you gotta transmit.

Manned missions need bigger rockets like you said, which requires pad and vab upgrades. Now I dont know what difficulty you play on, but certainly at the harder settings you never have enough cash for buildings (and even sci is thinner), so my first mun landing is 30 parts (ive usually upped the pad, 18t is tricky). I also cant be dropping half a dozen skippers everytime i wanna go somewhere, those things are expensive. So if you are playing these settings that slow the career trajectory then suddenly probes are the sexiest thing ever.

It boils down I guess to how many visits you want to make, if you plan to hit every biome with single landings, then yes you gotta go manned, but you also gotta cap out the tree for the grav scanner and good luck doing that before your first mun/min landings without skewing your progress heavily. I personally dont bother hoovering all the sci anymore, we never really needed it all anyway, instead probe landers gather and return the science, manned missions carry only an antenna for footprints, flags and reports. Removing the other sci stuff from manned landers slims those designs down hugely, that may not interest all folks with upgraded buildings and over-design, but some of us love the shoestring scenarios.

Finally, probes are pretty much essential for early departing ballistic transfers. I can have a temp scanning satellite on its way to Duna by day 2 on a high-speed trajectory, sending a manned mission on that transfer would be a massive craft (costing at least 10x the cash) that I likely couldnt even build/orbit for a month. I cant wait for the windows, at any difficulty level I've finished the tree before the first optimal window to anywhere and im too impatient to warp that far. (even on day 2 ballistic you have to restrain from capping the tree before it arrives)

Edited March 3, 2015 by celem

[pxi]

I definitely plan on using TAC once 1.0 comes around (didn't want to bother with it during my learning phase). But I will do this for realism, I don't see how it makes satellites and probes useful. I mean you know how long each mission will take and so you just have to pack enough supplies. And as for sending supplies ahead. Why not just take enough with you? I mean it's much less hassle to just send one larger ship than two smaller ones. It's the same reason why I don't see me sending a probe to get some science and then Kerbonauts to get the rest if I can get it all in one single mission. It's just wasted time.

Well one benefit I could see with that approach is you keep the weight of your manned craft down. I would find this approach somewhat appealing, although I do agree it's not strictly necessary. For me, a lot of my playstyle recently has been about trying to improve efficiency, so that's where I would find the appeal in that, especially if you were going for some kind of grand tour.

[Plusk]

I use Kerbals for EVA reports only. Everything else is done by probes and sattelites. No need for life support, and that alone saves you tons of dv. The only thing a single probe cant do is biome hopping. Unless theres a mod that can transfer and store experiments that im not aware of.

That being said, TACLS, FAR, DRE and RT are mods that i cant play without. KSP is too trivial without them.

[Pecan]

Ok, didn't know that mod [sCANSat] ...

How much more you would have learnt by reading the first page of responses ^^.

That said, yes, you're right in your main point, "satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless". Rovers and bases are useless too, of course.

Oh, and space-stations.

Spaceplanes, naturally.

Planes of any sort, now I come to think of it.

Actually, I can't think of a single useful vehicle in KSP.

It's a game, and people play it because it's interesting, challenging and fun!

My point being that if you choose to play in a way that makes satellites and probes useless ("you build a bigger rocket") then of course they're useless!

[tsotha]

Satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless no matter what mod you use. Why? Because they return much less science than manned missions do.

I guess it depends on your play style. If you're playing career on "hard" you always have gobs of science and no money. There's no reason to send manned missions to collect science. Once you get the second probe core the only reason to do anything manned is to have an engineer handy to fix wheels and legs.

In fact that's my big complaint about Kerbals. Except for the wheels/legs thing they're essentially heavy probe cores.

[theoneandonlyboiler]

How much more you would have learnt by reading the first page of responses ^^.

I read it, I just didn't look up every mod mentioned on it

That said, yes, you're right in your main point, "satellites and probes unfortunately are completely useless". Rovers and bases are useless too, of course.

Oh, and space-stations.

Spaceplanes, naturally.

Planes of any sort, now I come to think of it.

Actually, I can't think of a single useful vehicle in KSP.

I would say Rockets with Kerbals and rovers are the only useful things in KSP. Because you need science. And the fastest way to get science is by sending Kerbals. And once the necessary tech is available rovers in combination with a science lab on the lander can speed things up dramatically as it greatly reduces the need for multiple mission to the same planet/moon.

Planes, spaceplanes and stations/bases on the other hand are indeed completely useless.

It's a game, and people play it because it's interesting, challenging and fun!

Well, that depends I guess. On whether you're happy with doing things just for the hell of it. I for one expect the game to give me some benefit or reward for doing things, something that I can't get by other means or not as efficient.

Spending hours buidling a space station? What do I get from it? Oh, I get to look at my creation and pad myself on the shoulder for this achievement! But does it help me progress through the game? No, it doesn't, hence it serves no purpose other than to suck up precious time.

Now of course I will still build a space station at some point, and a Mun base probably. And I'm currently planing a hugely oversized Duna mission (needing about 5 heavy lift launches). Because I love building stuff and I want to try and do something that at least gives some feeling of realism (which a 1 Kerbal in a Mk1 pod to Duna mission does not) and a bigger challenge. But it would just be so much more fun doing it if you could get something back for your effort other than personal satifaction. I mean that's how games work, they give you (virtual) rewards for actions you perform. If there is no reward, the motivation suffers and you stop playing the game.

And it wouldn't be so hard to do that. Just add in experiments that need a very long time to complete, so that you have to put a ship in orbit or on a planet for the time it takes to complete. And then make Kerbals suffer in some way from to long living in a small capsule and generally beeing in space for to long so that living modules and regular crew changes would become a necessity. Then rework the tech tree so that you cannot get enough science between Kerbin, Mun and Minmus to get manned missions to other planets. So you would have to send probes ahead to gather some science for unlocking the techs for manned flights.

The possibilities are there, Squad just has to make use of them.

- - - Updated - - -

The career mode does provide incentive for some of these missions at least. It does depend somewhat on how you actually like to play KSP.

Let's say I most appreciate games that don't tell me what to do but that still require me to do certain things in order to progress. I never liked mission or campaign based games, but I also never ever play creative mode in games that have it.

I guess KSP science mode pretty much is perfect for me in at its core. It doesn't tell me what to do but still requires me to do progressively complex missions in order to progress through the game. The problem here is that not all its cool features are needed in order for progress.

Firstly manned missions do return a chunk more science, provided you have a couple of key building upgrades. If you cant surface sample then theres no point sending kerbals to my mind, it just means a return visit, if you cant even EVA then I wouldnt be landing off Kerbin. A probe lander that runs sci-instruments and then returns to kerbin yields a nice reward, just because its a probe doesnt mean you gotta transmit.

Well, I usually do a mission for each biome, which means I get plenty of opportunity for dooing all the orbital stuff with my manned missions. No need to send an extra probe mission to do that.

Manned missions need bigger rockets like you said, which requires pad and vab upgrades. Now I dont know what difficulty you play on, but certainly at the harder settings you never have enough cash for buildings (and even sci is thinner), so my first mun landing is 30 parts (ive usually upped the pad, 18t is tricky). I also cant be dropping half a dozen skippers everytime i wanna go somewhere, those things are expensive. So if you are playing these settings that slow the career trajectory then suddenly probes are the sexiest thing ever.

Well, that's career mode then, which I will never play. If science mode would introduce a budget or other restrictions that force me to slim down my missions to affordable levels I would welcome it. As long as I'm free to do my own missions I'm all for restrictions!

Finally, probes are pretty much essential for early departing ballistic transfers. I can have a temp scanning satellite on its way to Duna by day 2 on a high-speed trajectory, sending a manned mission on that transfer would be a massive craft (costing at least 10x the cash) that I likely couldnt even build/orbit for a month. I cant wait for the windows, at any difficulty level I've finished the tree before the first optimal window to anywhere and im too impatient to warp that far. (even on day 2 ballistic you have to restrain from capping the tree before it arrives)

Problem is, you don't need that science. You can get enough from Kerbin, Mun and Minmus. So I just wait for transfer windows before I go interplanetary. And by then I also have all the tech needed for that. Which is actually another problem of KSP, but I already talked about that.

Edited March 4, 2015 by theoneandonlyboiler