Pets in space

[MircoMars]

okay guys, back to topic please (mods you're free to delete off topic answers):

a. what pets would be best suited?

b. how would they evolve?

c. how could they be useful?

no answers on and c), yet?

and no, this is not a cat/dog poll. I'd like to have a discussion please.

[EzinX]

a. what pets would be best suited?

b. how would they evolve?

c. how could they be useful?

b. They wouldn't. We can already genetically engineer much faster and better than slow as a glacier evolutionary forces. Sooner or later we'll start putting error correction systems into all living things we use so that the mutations that make evolution possible no longer occur. (the primary reason we'll do this is it would make them far more resistant to radiation)

c. They are only useful in that they would improve the morale of humans on long duration spaceflights. This isn't even the most efficient way to do it - an occulus rift "pet simulator" would be a lot lighter than bringing an actual pet as well as all the needed supplies to keep it alive.

[Mazon Del]

Evolution doesn't come about just as a result of mutations. So the whole 'error checking' thing won't stop evolution from occurring. As far as what we could expect from evolution is indeed mostly what you would expect. The pets that happen to be a bit better at dealing with being in zero g and such will slowly be more successful and eventually you'd get a pet that likely outwardly looks the same, but their internal processes are adjusted to be able to handle zero g. Additionally, you'd probably see a different brain structure on some small level as animals that do not normally need to think in such 3D terms as would be needed in space, grow up in that environment.

[KSK]

a. what pets would be best suited?

b. how would they evolve?

c. how could they be useful?

b. They wouldn't. We can already genetically engineer much faster and better than slow as a glacier evolutionary forces. Sooner or later we'll start putting error correction systems into all living things we use so that the mutations that make evolution possible no longer occur. (the primary reason we'll do this is it would make them far more resistant to radiation)

c. They are only useful in that they would improve the morale of humans on long duration spaceflights. This isn't even the most efficient way to do it - an occulus rift "pet simulator" would be a lot lighter than bringing an actual pet as well as all the needed supplies to keep it alive.

It would be quite a trick to improve on the error correction systems that are already there. Wikipedia has a decent summary:

In general, DNA polymerases are highly accurate, with an intrinsic error rate of less than one mistake for every 10⁷ nucleotides added.[7] In addition, some DNA polymerases also have proofreading ability; they can remove nucleotides from the end of a growing strand in order to correct mismatched bases. Finally, post-replication mismatch repair mechanisms monitor the DNA for errors, being capable of distinguishing mismatches in the newly synthesized DNA strand from the original strand sequence. Together, these three discrimination steps enable replication fidelity of less than one mistake for every 10⁹ nucleotides added.[7]

Not bad for a collection of molecules bumping into each other.

Mazon - genuine question here. What other processes drive evolution apart from mutation. I know there's some evidence to suggest that epigenetic changes can be heritable - is that what you were thinking about, or something else?

[KerbMav]

For evolution to happen and resulting in a space-cat - how many individuals and generations would it take, hm?

Also: slugs anyone?

[Jovus]

Mazon - genuine question here. What other processes drive evolution apart from mutation. I know there's some evidence to suggest that epigenetic changes can be heritable - is that what you were thinking about, or something else?

I'm not Mazon, but sexual recombination is a much greater driver of genetic change than random mutation.

[Mazon Del]

Mazon - genuine question here. What other processes drive evolution apart from mutation. I know there's some evidence to suggest that epigenetic changes can be heritable - is that what you were thinking about, or something else?

Somewhat the epigenetic side of things, but for the most part what Jovus says. Even if you were to alter the pets such that every sperm/egg from a given animal was exactly the same, then you'd still have the fact that the animals are going to mate with available pairings. Even if that is done under human supervision such that A only mates with B and never C, if B dies due to some aspect of them that was unsuitable for space, then A has to mate with C. This process drawn out over the years will result in drift favoring evolution towards space adaptation. Really the strongest point about this though, is that we are talking about pets as opposed to lab animals. There is something of a bias against adopting a pet with known health issues. This most certainly not true for everybody, but if you want to give little Jimmy a puppy, are you going to give him one that might die in a couple of years because of this or that health condition, or are you going to give him a puppy that can frolic with him through the nature habs? This is less necessarily a pressure towards healthy pets, more it is the idea that we won't always be using our tech and resources to keep unsuitable pets going and breeding.

[KSK]

Thanks both. Just skirted round the edge of this particular rabbit hole on Wikipedia, and yeah - I was forgetting that variation is the important thing in evolution and that variation can be caused by a number of processes, most notably, sexual recombination.

+rep for both.

[Nuke]

For evolution to happen and resulting in a space-cat - how many individuals and generations would it take, hm?

Also: slugs anyone?

i once saw an 8 inch banana slug with spotted black and white coloring, i named him/her bill. bill was not very cuddly and i eventually let him go in some decaying foliage. bill would have probibly faired well in a space terrarium. actually pretty much any caged animal would probibly work out in space. you would simply need to use a cage design that is easy to clean in zero g. a hamster would probibly work out fairly well. you might even design the cage as a centrifuge so the animal enjoys at least some gravity.

[Kryten]

Thanks both. Just skirted round the edge of this particular rabbit hole on Wikipedia, and yeah - I was forgetting that variation is the important thing in evolution and that variation can be caused by a number of processes, most notably, sexual recombination.

+rep for both.

Recombination isn't going to get you far with many pets, given the level of homozygosity.

[Jovus]

Recombination isn't going to get you far with many pets, given the level of homozygosity.

Tell that to chihuahuas and St. Bernards. Or canine venereal sarcoma. (Yes, I'm cheating; dogs are pretty heterozygous when it comes to domestic animals.)

Also, this seems apropos: