Evel Kerbievel's Minmus Rover Jump-Off Challenge--NOW WITH "UNLIMITED" CLASS!

[Mister Dilsby]

Phenomenal! Juzeris, you go to the top with 507 m/s. Thanks for re-running this, I wonder if you're getting a whip-crack effect with the stock connection that you weren't getting with KJR.

[petronator]

Wowza, 507 m/s. That'll be a challenge to beat.

I made another attempt, this time using patented double-centrifuge technology. (Meanwhile at the astronaut complex, many recruits breath a sigh of relief when the High-G training machine mysteriously goes missing.)

Sadly, I couldn't beat Juzeris's record tonight. But, after trying a lot and killing many kerbals, I improved my speed to 398 m/s.

Here's the machine. The main centrifuge shoots off two mini-centrifuges. Then, in mid air, I spin these up and fire again to increase my speed. Smart, right? I thought so.

The lucky test subject, Wilbart, at top speed.

And finally, Wilbart is free.

Also,

I may or may not have misread your name as penetrator.

You seem to be mistaking me for my stripper alter-ego.

[Foxster]

Not been checking this challenge for a while but these last entries don't seem to have much to do with the challenge's idea, perhaps even less so than my rightly disqualified entry did, which at least had a rover.

[Jarin]

Everyone's too fascinated with the new Unlimited category, I think

I tend to fail at making even basic rovers, but I'm certainly enjoying watching the thread. Hoping for some more Open entries.

[Mister Dilsby]

Excellent points. Let's consider unlimited 'broken', and yeah it would have been a good idea to require the flung vehicle to begin as a proper operating 'rover' -- that way I'd stil be on top!

No more Unlimited entries will be judged until we sort it out.

@petronator, this subtracts nothing from the awesomeness of your latest fling. We just may have to find a way to restore the 'rover spirit' to the unlimited rules.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Kuzzter

[Mister Dilsby]

All right, I've looked things over a bit more and would like to get some opinions regarding the direction of the Unlimited challenge. Per the rules in the OP, both Petronator's and Juzeris's entries are perfectly valid for Unlimited. However this is a ROVER jump challenge so in that spirit we may want to modify the Unlimited rules, to wit:

"The craft must begin and end the run as a driveable rover. For the purpose of this challenge a 'rover' is a crewed vehicle that can move and steer on the surface of Minmus using only electrically driven rover wheels."

Thus (perhaps too conveniently? hey, the OP has to have some privileges ) my entry in Unlimited still works because it was a drivable rover from beginning to end of the run (actually, at the end it was TWO drivable rovers!) Petrnonator's second entry looks drivable at start of run, if he can retract enough gear bays to be able to drive in a straight-ish line without toppling the whole structure. The capsule is not a rover after release, but it easily could be with addition of a couple of wheels. With some modifications Juzeris could certainly also meet this standard.

Note that the 'drivable after run' part makes it harder for vehicles that do not escape, and impact Minmus somewhere. Even more difficult for a craft that hits Kerbin. So I am thinking the ULTIMATE ULTIMATE answer to this Challenge will be a rover that jumps from Minmus, lands on Kerbin at the KSC, and is still driveable. Anyone have the drupes to pull that off?

What do you all think?

[impyre]

I have an idea... restrict "ultimate" entries to only those which "roll up a ramp". Then the challenge with flingers becomes aligning the flung object with the ground in such a way that it rolls after release (without blowing up). Maybe this makes it too difficult though, just an idea.

Perhaps to minimize feelings being hurt, you could simply create a new less broken "ultimate" category... a semi-ultimate.

As a side-note, Foxster's would be perfectly legit in semi-ultimate as I envision it. The challenge in semi-ultimate is having something driveable rolling up a ramp and surviving. Nothing aside from the rover and ramp would be considered.

Edited April 24, 2015 by impyre

[juzeris]

I'm perfectly fine with my entry getting moved to "legacy unlimited" or something. Also I technically broke the no decouplers rule, but using docking ports would not have made a difference.

Regarding the change of rules, it sounds great! Though I'm working on SAS driven wheeled vehicle complete with a ramp to jump off, do you think it would be fine for unlimited? It uses "electrically driven wheels" for propulsion, but not "electrically driven rover wheels".

Also adding probe wheels on the capsule in the flinger would work to qualify it, so requiring the launched part to touch a ramp at launch point might be good.

[Starwhip]

What, did I scare everyone out of the "open" category?

Unlimited seems fun. If you've got great aim you can easily fling something into Kerbin's SOI... I don't know if you could get any kind of low periapsis.

How about a 2-stage flinger? Big one flings the small one out of Minmus SOI, then small one flings the "rover" into a Kerbin capture.

[Mister Dilsby]

Regarding the change of rules, it sounds great! Though I'm working on SAS driven wheeled vehicle complete with a ramp to jump off, do you think it would be fine for unlimited? It uses "electrically driven wheels" for propulsion, but not "electrically driven rover wheels".

Also adding probe wheels on the capsule in the flinger would work to qualify it, so requiring the launched part to touch a ramp at launch point might be good.

Thanks, and yes I think "electrically driven wheels" should be the standard for Unlimited, not requiring Rover wheels. Unlimited is all about SAS abuse, after all!

As for 'touching a ramp', I thought about that way back when I first wrote Unlimited rules, but did not want to restrict the definition of a 'ramp'. My thinking: in Unlimited unlike Open the ramp need not be inert...but once the ramp is not inert, the logically absurd conclusion is a ramp in name only (RINO) that ends up looking like the massive centrifugal flingers that led us to this point.

So, suppose we required that the last thing the rover touch is some kind of 'ramp', said ramp being inert and in contact with the ice sheet, but you can use any kind of electrically driven flinger and any combination of ramps and terrain to accelerate prior to that point. How then would we treat a concept like mine, in which the rover that goes off the ramp flings a crewed, driveable piece of itself for distance?

- - - Updated - - -

If you've got great aim you can easily fling something into Kerbin's SOI... I don't know if you could get any kind of low periapsis.

How about a 2-stage flinger? Big one flings the small one out of Minmus SOI, then small one flings the "rover" into a Kerbin capture.

Actually I was considering adding a third stage to my original Fling-O-Matic, a command seat behind the Mk1 cockpit that could hopefully achieve orbit or escape. I would attempt to land the first two rover stages safely on Minmus, and then let whatever fate befall the third...

[juzeris]

Well, with some further testing, for the more crazy contraptions the ramp actually presents a problem. My gyroscope powered wheel-thing usually gets stuck in the ramp (or accidentally jumps over it). So maybe limiting it to ramps only is not that good of an idea.

I did manage to produce enough of a "jump" to have something for the leaderboards, but it's just a measly (for unlimited) 1.8km.

[Mister Dilsby]

Hilarious! How do you even steer that thing?

[juzeris]

Hilarious! How do you even steer that thing?

Well..... same way you steer all contraptions, I suppose. Slow down, gently turn, speed up again. If you try to turn at high speed spinning it just becomes less stable without significantly changing direction.

EDIT:

How then would we treat a concept like mine, in which the rover that goes off the ramp flings a crewed, driveable piece of itself for distance?

I'm not sure, probably ban them all. Flinging while in space is even easier than on the ground, you don't even have to watch where you going so you don't hit the said ground. I'm providing my argument below. Admittedly I'm back to using KJR, but the ramp needs it more than the towertruck, since the flinging arm of the towertruck is made from massless parts. On the other hand, that was a test run, I didn't watch where I was going, and that happened the first try, and look where I ended up. That centrifuge on the ground was a lot harder.

EDIT2: Tested it without KJR, no noticeable difference actually. Here's the craft download if anyone wants to give it a fling. 1 to disconnect the capsule, space to release the minirover.

EDIT3:

<..> Do your best to land on the ice <..>

Just realised I did!

Edited April 25, 2015 by juzeris
Arguments added

[ghostbuzzer7]

Absolutely awesome . Cant believe you were able to even land on the North Pole Juzeris and still have a drive-able flinger

[Mister Dilsby]

Wowza. OK, I will have to make sense of this and update the leaderboard later--but for now I hereby declare the Unlimited category BROKEN! due to Juzeris's epic feat of flinging a driveable rover to Kerbin capture and landing! You, my friend, win ALL the coconuts!

[Starwhip]

"Broken" as in no longer accepting entries?

C'mon, someone hit 2.2 kilometers in "Open"! I've got no competition!

[Mister Dilsby]

"Broken" as in no longer accepting entries?

Yes, I think that would be best--certainly, insane entries should be posted here for our amusement, but I'm not going to maintain a leaderboard for Unlimited with the present rule set. We may have to see how SAS devices change in V1.0 to see what the rules should be beyond Open.

I do hope someone finds a way to beat your Open record of 2200m, Starwhip! As I recall there is some gyro use in yours, with midair flips to gain speed prior to hitting the launch ramp. I wonder if some kind of sliding mass rig would work to increase speed even further, i.e. get momentum from the 'fling' effect I and Juzeris used, but keep the craft together to meet the Open requirement? Or maybe spin the craft in air after launch and 'pole vault' by having a stiff enough section impact the ice.

[ghostbuzzer7]

I think I may have struck gold.... just need to get it to minmus.... Theres only one way to beat that score... I need to recheck the rules now it may be broken.... Im happy.

------ Edit -------

Nope didnt work.... 1.0 docking mode restricts wheels from running.... Im just about done with ideas.

Edited May 3, 2015 by ghostbuzzer7

[Starwhip]

I think I may have struck gold.... just need to get it to minmus.... Theres only one way to beat that score... I need to recheck the rules now it may be broken.... Im happy.

------ Edit -------

Nope didnt work.... 1.0 docking mode restricts wheels from running.... Im just about done with ideas.

It does what now?!

Darn it, that was the only reliable method to control that flipper of mine!

[Mister Dilsby]

You stuffed a 2.5m equipment bay with gyros and made it into a wheeel, didn't you.

[Pouicpouic]

I just made a 6,3km jump (stock) on minmus :