Electric motors and propellers

[juvilado]

I would add a couple of electric motors to stock, witch would give us a wider range of designing options. There is an experimental solar plane that can fly around the world, why not adding this tech to ksp?

[Red Iron Crown]

I'll go against the grain here and say that I would prefer not to have electric propellers added. Realism-wise, IRL they are basically useless for any sort of payload when powered by solar. Gameplay-wise, I think it's a bad idea to have flight that isn't limited by fuel.

A prop that runs on LF or LFO might be interesting, but doesn't really add much that jets and rockets don't already provide.

[John FX]

I'll go against the grain here and say that I would prefer not to have electric propellers added. Realism-wise, IRL they are basically useless for any sort of payload when powered by solar. Gameplay-wise, I think it's a bad idea to have flight that isn't limited by fuel.

A prop that runs on LF or LFO might be interesting, but doesn't really add much that jets and rockets don't already provide.

I'll disagree that it is bad for gameplay. Currently there really is not much point in building anything that flies for any planet except laythe or kerbin. Having electric propulsion options for Eve or Duna would make the planets more attractive for people who wish to do more than 'land, eva, sample, report, flag, leave'

To put it another way, does fuel free rover propulsion ruin gameplay?

Why not have all the rovers powered by internal combustion or jets so they have a limited range if that is better?

[Red Iron Crown]

I'll disagree that it is bad for gameplay. Currently there really is not much point in building anything that flies for any planet except laythe or kerbin. Having electric propulsion options for Eve or Duna would make the planets more attractive for people who wish to do more than 'land, eva, sample, report, flag, leave'

IMO that is as it should be. Duna is not really great for planes/propellers anyway as the atmo is so thin. Eve is so easy to fly on that a different propulsion system is not really required, very small rockets or ions do fine for propelling them efficiently there.

To put it another way, does fuel free rover propulsion ruin gameplay?

Why not have all the rovers powered by internal combustion or jets so they have a limited range if that is better?

I think the unlimited range of rovers is offset by their limited speed. The same could not be said of a fuel-less aerial propulsion system.

[John FX]

IMO that is as it should be. Duna is not really great for planes/propellers anyway as the atmo is so thin. Eve is so easy to fly on that a different propulsion system is not really required, very small rockets or ions do fine for propelling them efficiently there.

I think the unlimited range of rovers is offset by their limited speed. The same could not be said of a fuel-less aerial propulsion system.

Unless the electric air propulsion was also limited by speed, then you could say that offset the 'free fuel' element in the same way as it does for rovers. If Eve is already easy to fly in then electric propulsion would not change much.

E : A limited maximum speed would introduce the need for 'interesting' designs, which IMO would increase gameplay which is all about designing and flying your designs.

Edited April 24, 2015 by John FX

[Red Iron Crown]

Unless the electric air propulsion was also limited by speed, then you could say that offset the 'free fuel' element in the same way as it does for rovers. If Eve is already easy to fly in then electric propulsion would not change much.

Hmm, you might be right (I was thinking of them being like rockets where more engines = more speed, but they would likely be more like jets). Though I would imagine that any propeller speed limit would be much higher than that of rovers (at least I would hope so), which is why I'd consider them less offset by speed.

[John FX]

Hmm, you might be right (I was thinking of them being like rockets where more engines = more speed, but they would likely be more like jets). Though I would imagine that any propeller speed limit would be much higher than that of rovers (at least I would hope so), which is why I'd consider them less offset by speed.

I was imagining a top speed so you could just about keep something in the air on Duna but if you tried to take off from the ground you'd break up. Not sure off the top of my head what that would be but maybe 100-300m/s?

it would be great if the air on Duna was tweaked alongside the props so that you could not land but you could fly, like Mars currently. We could drop a plane from a descending probe but it would crash if we tried to land it. A probe that landed with chutes that dropped a plane on the way down would be possible with the increased physics range we have been promised.

There would be a pretty low maximum altitude too, maybe so low you could not fly over the highest peaks but would have to go round.

I reckon it would be fun.

[Wjolcz]

I was imagining a top speed so you could just about keep something in the air on Duna but if you tried to take off from the ground you'd break up. Not sure off the top of my head what that would be but maybe 100-300m/s?

it would be great if the air on Duna was tweaked alongside the props so that you could not land but you could fly, like Mars currently. We could drop a plane from a descending probe but it would crash if we tried to land it. A probe that landed with chutes that dropped a plane on the way down would be possible with the increased physics range we have been promised.

There would be a pretty low maximum altitude too, maybe so low you could not fly over the highest peaks but would have to go round.

I reckon it would be fun.

I agree. Not OP props. Just so you could barely take-off on Duna. Only light, glider-like designs. And it should take a lot of electricity to power.

[KerikBalm]

Fortunately, its easy to mod this in KSP.

Step 1: Duplicate an air intake, rename it an atmosphere intake or something like that

Step 2: Remove the flag for it to require oxygen

Step 3: Change what it generates from IntakeAir to some other name (Recommend: IntakeAtmosphere) and add this to the resource definitions

Step 4: Duplicate the basic jet, rename it, change the resources to use IntakeAtmosphere (or whatever you called it), and electric charge.

Step 5: Tweak stats as you want.

Personally, as there was an art change, I used the basic jet from 0.18 for the electric propulsion (so it is visually distinct from the Basic Jet).

I set the velocity curve so that thrust dropped off after 200 m/s, and very fast after 250 m/s, and it couldn't produce thrust beyond 275 m/s.

It produced 20 kN of thrust, and used a lot of electricity. (two swept wings plastered in Ox stats couldn't keep it at full thrust at mid day on Kerbin).

So... it certainly wouldn't work very long on Duna.

A 250 m/s limited electric propulsion seems balanced to me.

Flight duration is limited, and you can't just go wherever... some terrain is very bad for launching and landing.

Rovers can go (almost) anywhere, and can stop at any time.

A flying craft is much more likely to have an accident, and is much more limited in where it can actually touch down.

I think this represents a pretty good balance for gameplay.

... although the stats I initially set for it, were maybe a bit OP'd on Duna. I had a manned STOVL craft with lift engines, and parachutes....

Pop the parachutes, use lift engines to control descent rate = land anywhere.

Manned= repack the chutes.

Engage lift motors and forward thrust motors -> take off in a very short distance.

That could be fine (I had a quad-copter design for laythe, pure VTOL), but I think the lifting capacity was too high. If it was a dedicated STOVL craft, fine... but it was doing all that with a LV-N attached and a full fuel tank, to allow it to SSTO from Duna.

Getting to 275 m/s on duna is quite a bit when you only orbit at about 900 m/s... and duna's low gravity means the TWR was actually quite good.

The new Isp system should help.

We can have thrust decrease as air pressure drops... so in the thick air of Eve, they work well, but in Duna's thin air.... they won't produce much thrust.

TL:DR They can be made balanced, they can be made easily, and with the new Isp system, they can be made even better.

[touzenesmy]

I'm starting the project now, I'll be on this today.

EDIT: starting blender, want to make a whole new part about it, if someone will take charge of the config part, I won't say no, that'll be a pleasure

- - - Updated - - -

Engine heart, for now

[touzenesmy]

Doing animation, it's my first time doing it so I'm helping myself with tutorials, hope you'll like it

[touzenesmy]

Finished texturing, the rusty is because I want to do it as prototype for testing, with poor thrust and bad efficiency.

Once it'll work, I'll start working on real ones much more efficient that'll let you make a tour around kerbin with free gaz

[touzenesmy]

Sorry for long time without post, exported it to unity, added what needs to be, first test working successfully

Now it's time to add the animation, the sound, and ressources calibration.

[touzenesmy]

I'll continue working on it a bit later, feel free to give suggestions

[NotDavidTenant]

Squad has implemented many amazing features, much more content than I had ever hoped for. One final part, however; is missing...an electric driven propeller. I believe that this should be part of the stock game because it would allow players to create solar powered atmospheric probes on bodies with atmospheres. Although mods provide an alternative I think this would make a fantastic addition to the base game. Thank you.

[Red Iron Crown]

Welcome to the forums, NotDavidTenant! We have an area for suggestions for the stock game, and I'll merge your thread with the existing thread about electric propellers.

[touzenesmy]

You're welcome bro.

I'll continue working on it the whole day, I still have just two things that I couldn't manage how to do them now

First is how to add in sound, and second how to manage animation speed

[touzenesmy]

Since no a single help on a looped animation was given, I'm going to make new engines without turning parts, Starting blender now

[touzenesmy]

New rotor ! this one will be released !

Just give me some time to finish it

[touzenesmy]

There is some kind of bug, when I remove the liquidfuel dependency and remplace it by electric power, the engine don't want to be powered up anymore and says "air inake deprived"

what ? o.O, I know what it means, but I won't be surprised if I hadn't 2 intakes on it and works perfectly if I don't change that var

[touzenesmy]

I hope this post will close the thread

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118208-1-0-Electrical-engines

[Francois424]

Thanks for your hard work on this Touzenesmy, much appreciated.

I will however insists that the tread remains open. I've got nothing against mods (except ram limit until Unity5), but I really want this stock. What happens if/when you stop supporting the mod and it becomes not compatible with a future patch ? It will suck. Still your work is awesome, I'll prolly give it a try when I get to Laythe exploration in a few weeks !

[Gfurst]

I plus one on this, but not solely for electric engines, but also for propellers engines for the earlier plane designs.

Useful prop and turbo-prop engines more like fire-spitter was. Who don't planes with the new aero model?

Plus, I would like proper jet engines too, they're not a back bone part of the plane like represented, but instead a elongated in the longitudinal axis, meaning intake, compressor and exhaust matters a lot, and most of the thrust isn't produced at the back either.

Why be picky about this? Having the engine with all its weight and thrust out the back is quite un-realistic and makes for bad plane designs. The precooler and other complimentary parts are quite nice but also quite useless.

[Wjolcz]

Another example of stowable propeller. And also a bump because I really want this feature.

[touzenesmy]

Ok'l I'll work on it, but please can you post in the mod thread so I can know what you want me to do ?....

- - - Updated - - -

I'll start working on stowable propeller lets say... this night or tomorrow, I'll upload the pictures on my mod dev thread okey ?

Edited May 4, 2015 by touzenesmy