[1.1.2] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) 1.2.12

[Jarin]

30 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

What kind of crashes? Game crashed? Detach/attach not worked? Suspicious errors in the logs?

Hard "Kerbal Space Program has stopped working" appcrash. No log generated at all. Triggers at random when attaching or detaching... I think it's conduits specifically now that I look at it. Possible problem with merging/unmerging vessels? 

Edit: Lemmie get my modlist, in case there's any obvious conflicts you might spot...

Pretty sure everything is up to date.

 

Edit 2: I should clarify, it doesn't happen every time. I've successfully built out a pretty solid surface base on Minmus with tons of perfectly-functional conduits. But it's enough that I still quicksave before doing any work outside.

 

Edit 3: Completely unrelated problem, maybe just misunderstanding... but is there a reason that when I'm linking hoses to refuel, sometimes the conduit-point itself becomes a new root part? Makes it a pain to get back off again if I want my connector back.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Jarin

[Festivejelly]

15 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Could you please check logs when it happens? Btw, you connect your modules via port CC-R2 which is only available in KAS so, when you said "with just KIS installed" I think you've actually meant "KIS and KAS"?

Also, please try it the following way:

1. Disconnect all links between the modules.
2. Detach and then attach both concrete bases. It's important to reset attachment position since they have changed in 0.5.6.
3. Reconnect the components, and try reloading.

Sorry yes you're right KIS and KAS, I'll do as you suggested and try to get you a log. I couldnt see anything untoward in the last log I had.

[Festivejelly]

So also I have a question about technique.

I got quite adventurous and figured I cannibalise some of my crashed ships and make a little shuttle of sorts on minmus. However I'm having symmetry problems. Is there a technique anyone has for helping align things when using KIS to attach stuff radially? I'm a sucker for perfection, and also my craft has a slight turn because I seemingly didnt line the radial boosters up correctly!

[IgorZ]

5 hours ago, Jarin said:

Hard "Kerbal Space Program has stopped working" appcrash. No log generated at all. Triggers at random when attaching or detaching... I think it's conduits specifically now that I look at it. Possible problem with merging/unmerging vessels? 

Edit 2: I should clarify, it doesn't happen every time. I've successfully built out a pretty solid surface base on Minmus with tons of perfectly-functional conduits. But it's enough that I still quicksave before doing any work outside.

Edit 3: Completely unrelated problem, maybe just misunderstanding... but is there a reason that when I'm linking hoses to refuel, sometimes the conduit-point itself becomes a new root part? Makes it a pain to get back off again if I want my connector back.

I don't see any conflicting mods in the list. Though, I don't think it's a mod conflict. Mods are written in C#, they cannot crash the game just because of something is wrong in them. I'd suggest that it's either a hardware (like unstable or overheated RAM chip) or an operation system (like video drivers bug) issue, attach action is just a trigger, not the reason. There were reports on KSP crashing spontaneously but IIRC it was fixed in the latest build.

As for the port becoming root it's the known (and intended) behavior. It's not always possible to connect two vessels without this re-arrangement.

1 hour ago, Festivejelly said:

So also I have a question about technique.

I got quite adventurous and figured I cannibalise some of my crashed ships and make a little shuttle of sorts on minmus. However I'm having symmetry problems. Is there a technique anyone has for helping align things when using KIS to attach stuff radially? I'm a sucker for perfection, and also my craft has a slight turn because I seemingly didnt line the radial boosters up correctly!

Aligning parts is a really complicated task. It's unlikely it will be implemented soon.

[Jarin]

3 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

I don't see any conflicting mods in the list. Though, I don't think it's a mod conflict. Mods are written in C#, they cannot crash the game just because of something is wrong in them. I'd suggest that it's either a hardware (like unstable or overheated RAM chip) or an operation system (like video drivers bug) issue, attach action is just a trigger, not the reason. There were reports on KSP crashing spontaneously but IIRC it was fixed in the latest build.

As for the port becoming root it's the known (and intended) behavior. It's not always possible to connect two vessels without this re-arrangement.

That's what I was afraid of. My general crashes had gotten better with 1.1.2, and it seemed to just be triggering on KIS interactions. Bleh. Back to square one. (It's happening on two rather different computers, both rather new, so it's got to be something about the scene I'm working in with this base)

As for the port rooting, I suspected that might be the case. Found a workaround accidentally though. Since the "detach" action with the R key removes everything below from the root, you can just "detach" the part the port is attached to and the port drops to the ground as a separate object. I panicked for half a second when I did it the first time, thinking I'd just detached everything connected to my ship's core. But this seems to handle the job nicely.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Jarin

[IgorZ]

20 minutes ago, Jarin said:

As for the port rooting, I suspected that might be the case. Found a workaround accidentally though. Since the "detach" action with the R key removes everything below from the root, you can just "detach" the part the port is attached to and the port drops to the ground as a separate object. I panicked for half a second when I did it the first time, thinking I'd just detached everything connected to my ship's core. But this seems to handle the job nicely.

And this a recommended way to do the trick. From the user manual:

Root part can’t be detached directly as it doesn’t have any parent, however detaching his
child(REN) will do the trick.

 

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

I don't see any conflicting mods in the list. Though, I don't think it's a mod conflict. Mods are written in C#, they cannot crash the game just because of something is wrong in them. I'd suggest that it's either a hardware (like unstable or overheated RAM chip) or an operation system (like video drivers bug) issue, attach action is just a trigger, not the reason. There were reports on KSP crashing spontaneously but IIRC it was fixed in the latest build.

I wouldn't say 'fixed' completely - first rule of cybernetic entomology and all that.  And I think it may depend on what you mean by 'crash' - I have a 100% repeatable issue at the moment with another mod where KSP goes unresponsive at full CPU usage, and stays there.  (Somehow a part instead of spawning on the launchpad spawns in solar orbit, from the log.  But that's a couple lines up from the end, and then nothing else gets written.  And it's not related to KIS.)

Spoiler

First Rule of Cybernetic Entomology: There's always one more bug.

 

[Festivejelly]

8 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Aligning parts is a really complicated task. It's unlikely it will be implemented soon.

Thats a shame. Maybe we could find a way to store a vessel in a KIS container? Like a sub assembly. Obv we can store the parts. Maybe i'll start working on a mod to do this. So like you'd have all the parts in a container and a "plan" which would be loaded from the sub assemblies and then you'd "build ship from plan" and assuming you've got the parts in the containers itle build your ship for you.

I've looked into other mods but I just dont like the idea of using "rocket parts". I like the idea of assembling small "helper" craft on the fly though. Obv its easier to work with some things more than others.

[IgorZ]

12 minutes ago, Festivejelly said:

Thats a shame. Maybe we could find a way to store a vessel in a KIS container? Like a sub assembly. Obv we can store the parts. Maybe i'll start working on a mod to do this. So like you'd have all the parts in a container and a "plan" which would be loaded from the sub assemblies and then you'd "build ship from plan" and assuming you've got the parts in the containers itle build your ship for you.

I've looked into other mods but I just dont like the idea of using "rocket parts". I like the idea of assembling small "helper" craft on the fly though. Obv its easier to work with some things more than others.

I call this idea "a blueprint": you make a craft in the editor, save it as assembly, and then re-create on a distant planet given you have all the parts required. It would be a good feature. Though, for now it's not at the top of the list.

[Festivejelly]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

I call this idea "a blueprint": you make a craft in the editor, save it as assembly, and then re-create on a distant planet given you have all the parts required. It would be a good feature. Though, for now it's not at the top of the list.

I like that, the blueprint. Do you mind if I get started on coding this using the KIS API?

It would be a seperate mod, and I should what you could do is when you have an engineer on EVA you would right click and hit "build craft" and it would give you a list of sub assemblies and when you click one, you name it and it will check you have the available parts before constructing the craft for you and placing it when you hover over the mouse cursor. Id be happy to share my code with you should you wish to use any of it

[swjr-swis]

34 minutes ago, Festivejelly said:

I like that, the blueprint. Do you mind if I get started on coding this using the KIS API?

 

Perhaps a good starting point would be looking into the code for this mod:

The 'Select Vessel' function to load a new vessel into an active hangar only looks at the VAB/SPH and loads an entire craft in one go, but it should not be too hard to extend/adapt that function to load from Subassemblies. You would still need to add code for assembling a craft out of subassemblies, but it would be a start.

[Festivejelly]

Just now, swjr-swis said:

 

Perhaps a good starting point would be looking into the code for this mod:

The 'Select Vessel' function to load a new vessel into an active hangar only looks at the VAB/SPH and loads an entire craft in one go, but it should not be too hard to extend/adapt that function to load from Subassemblies. You would still need to add code for assembling a craft out of subassemblies, but it would be a start.

Thanks thats super handy i'll check that out.

56 minutes ago, Festivejelly said:

I like that, the blueprint. Do you mind if I get started on coding this using the KIS API?

It would be a seperate mod, and I should what you could do is when you have an engineer on EVA you would right click and hit "build craft" and it would give you a list of sub assemblies and when you click one, you name it and it will check you have the available parts before constructing the craft for you and placing it when you hover over the mouse cursor. Id be happy to share my code with you should you wish to use any of it

For anyone who's interested I have started on this idea. You can find the thread here:

I'll update it more when I get home from work.

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, Festivejelly said:

I like that, the blueprint. Do you mind if I get started on coding this using the KIS API?

It would be a seperate mod, and I should what you could do is when you have an engineer on EVA you would right click and hit "build craft" and it would give you a list of sub assemblies and when you click one, you name it and it will check you have the available parts before constructing the craft for you and placing it when you hover over the mouse cursor. Id be happy to share my code with you should you wish to use any of it

Such mod will be very welcome! Btw, take a look at:

Basically, what you're going to create is this mode with KIS integration

[Festivejelly]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

Such mod will be very welcome! Btw, take a look at:

Basically, what you're going to create is this mode with KIS integration

That's very helpful thanks, i'll take a look at that. I my part will be implement the logic checking the parts exist etc and also generating the craft in the world. Seems all the hard work has already been done! I pop the Git location in my sig once i've got something.

[Jarin]

23 hours ago, Jarin said:

Anyone else having problems with regular crashes when attaching/detaching things, especially from the ground? 

Sonofoakraken! Apparently I've been launching KSP in x32 mode without realizing it. 

[Festivejelly]

2 minutes ago, Jarin said:

Sonofoakraken! Apparently I've been launching KSP in x32 mode without realizing it. 

schoolboy error. 20 laps of the playing field.

In all seriousness though thats been a pain in the backside for me too. I wish I could tell steam to always launch 64 bit.

[Galenmacil]

KIS is throwing some strange error in the log about 3 sounds being absent. The .OGG files listed are there. They play correctly in Windows... LOG excerpt:

Spoiler

 

[LOG 00:42:00.791] Loading UI sounds for KIS...
[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/bipwrong
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/bipwrong

[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/click
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/click

[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/attachScrewdriver
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/attachScrewdriver

 

 

[IgorZ]

6 minutes ago, Galenmacil said:

KIS is throwing some strange error in the log about 3 sounds being absent. The .OGG files listed are there. They play correctly in Windows... LOG excerpt:

  Hide contents

 

[LOG 00:42:00.791] Loading UI sounds for KIS...
[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/bipwrong
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/bipwrong

[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/click
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/click

[LOG 00:42:00.792] Loading clip: KIS/Sounds/attachScrewdriver
[ERR 00:42:00.792] Cannot locate clip: KIS/Sounds/attachScrewdriver

 

 

Known issue

[PTNLemay]

I've just found the explosives part in my KIS modded career run, and I thought up a fun plan to use it as a self-destruct mechanism.  The top stage successfully delivers my payload to a keo-synchronous orbit, but now there's a big bulky piece of space debris near that orbit.  No problem, just slip a bomb onto that top stage and detonate it when you're a safe distance from the payload.

My problem is that... I can't seem to remote detonate it.  It looks like the only way to trigger the bombs to go is with a Kerbal.   Is this a bug, or is it meant to be this way?   Because... that really limits it's usage potential (in my own personal opinion).

[baranowb]

Just a minor hint - add description in garage adapter ---> "'R' - us to switch attachment initial point" (Yeah, Im kind of noob with this)

Also, Ive encountered and odd issue. Ive deployed a base with that round nice main module, 4 side tanks and some other parts as day 0 base. Ive set up adapter, garage part( that slim smallest part. Once I attached leg to garage part, it sprung open on attach, whole base jumped a bit and... whole garage section was gone(once I regained focus on base) - it did not explode. 

Edit: I tried to reproduce it, so far on joy.

Another issue: all parts start open, as in VAB - maybe it would be good to add context menu in inv to change state?
Feature: garage doors could get a per wing setting on deploy limit ?

Edited May 12, 2016 by baranowb

[MikHav]

First of all, thank you for this amazing mod - it really makes building bases more realistic. Now, I have found an interesting problem with docking nodes.

I guess KIS might be involved, as I performed a number of complex EVA constructions prior the issue. I am not yet sure and still try to replicate the issue with either my 80+ mods or a vanilla+KIS only installation. I am also not sure if this problem has never occured before but my searches turned up nothing yet - so forgive me if it was already mentioned somewhere. I use KSP 1.1.2 with KIS v1.2.9.

The problem:

I have two unused standard docking nodes (STATION NODE and CRAZY NODE (you'll see why ;-) )) on my space station. I try to dock a lander with his node LANDER NODE to the station. I use Docking Port Alignment Indicator which allows cycling through all empty docking nodes - nevertheless, I am only able to select STATION NODE with it. I can manually right-click target the CRAZY NODE, but every attempt to dock with CRAZY NODE fails. I dock with STATION NODE instead. When LANDER NODE is docked to STATION NODE, I am as expected able to undock with right-click on LANDER NODE. Additionally, I am able to undock the connection between LANDER NODE and STATION NODE from the right-click menu of CRAZY NODE.

I looked through a save file of this situation and the following constellation is apparent:

The LANDER NODE is in docked  state as DOCKER (active part, from which you can undock the connection) docked to the uid of STATION NODE. STATION NODE is in docked state as DOCKEE (passive part) docked to the uid of LANDER NODE. The CRAZY NODE is in docked state as DOCKER docked to the uid of LANDER NODE.

When I undock, CRAZY NODE stays docked as DOCKER to LANDER NODE and the connection between the other two nodes disengages. It does not matter if I undock from CRAZY NODE or from LANDER NODE,

 

I am trying to find the chain of events which led to LANDER NODE being docked to two different nodes at the same time, but this behaviour is obviously unintended. Has someone had such an event before? What could cause this? What kind of logs could help finding the error (Note: I will at some point upload a savegame with the issue, if my internet connection permits)

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, PTNLemay said:

I've just found the explosives part in my KIS modded career run, and I thought up a fun plan to use it as a self-destruct mechanism.  The top stage successfully delivers my payload to a keo-synchronous orbit, but now there's a big bulky piece of space debris near that orbit.  No problem, just slip a bomb onto that top stage and detonate it when you're a safe distance from the payload.

My problem is that... I can't seem to remote detonate it.  It looks like the only way to trigger the bombs to go is with a Kerbal.   Is this a bug, or is it meant to be this way?   Because... that really limits it's usage potential (in my own personal opinion).

If all you need is removing a debris you can do it from the space center. Just open the map, select the debris, and choose "delete". The explosives in KIS is a kerbal operated thing. For the self-destruction purpose I'd suggest creating a new part.

36 minutes ago, baranowb said:

Just a minor hint - add description in garage adapter ---> "'R' - us to switch attachment initial point" (Yeah, Im kind of noob with this)

Also, Ive encountered and odd issue. Ive deployed a base with that round nice main module, 4 side tanks and some other parts as day 0 base. Ive set up adapter, garage part( that slim smallest part. Once I attached leg to garage part, it sprung open on attach, whole base jumped a bit and... whole garage section was gone(once I regained focus on base) - it did not explode. 

Edit: I tried to reproduce it, so far on joy.

Another issue: all parts start open, as in VAB - maybe it would be good to add context menu in inv to change state?
Feature: garage doors could get a per wing setting on deploy limit ?

1. Garage adapter is not a part of KIS, authors of that mod should do the changes. And using "R" to switch the node is a generic approach in KIS, why do you believe garage adapter deserves a special note?
2. As for the open legs, it's a change in KSP 1.1 which I'm fighting with for several days already (in scope of fixing a bug). So far no solution, but there are some ideas.
3. Deploying limit feature should be suggested on the garage's mod forum since it's not related to KIS.

 

[baranowb]

Hey Igor:

1. I was almost sure its part of KIS/KAS, maybe I squeezed another mod update in one go. My bad. Im not very keen on all details. Did not play KSP for quite some time, so Im catching up on progress.
2. Great. Thank you.
3. Indeed, I will, once I figure out which mod adds this.

Thank you. Looks like you are doing exceptional work here - mod and response time.

[IgorZ]

13 minutes ago, MikHav said:

First of all, thank you for this amazing mod - it really makes building bases more realistic. Now, I have found an interesting problem with docking nodes.

I guess KIS might be involved, as I performed a number of complex EVA constructions prior the issue. I am not yet sure and still try to replicate the issue with either my 80+ mods or a vanilla+KIS only installation. I am also not sure if this problem has never occured before but my searches turned up nothing yet - so forgive me if it was already mentioned somewhere. I use KSP 1.1.2 with KIS v1.2.9.

The problem:

I have two unused standard docking nodes (STATION NODE and CRAZY NODE (you'll see why ;-) )) on my space station. I try to dock a lander with his node LANDER NODE to the station. I use Docking Port Alignment Indicator which allows cycling through all empty docking nodes - nevertheless, I am only able to select STATION NODE with it. I can manually right-click target the CRAZY NODE, but every attempt to dock with CRAZY NODE fails. I dock with STATION NODE instead. When LANDER NODE is docked to STATION NODE, I am as expected able to undock with right-click on LANDER NODE. Additionally, I am able to undock the connection between LANDER NODE and STATION NODE from the right-click menu of CRAZY NODE.

I looked through a save file of this situation and the following constellation is apparent:

The LANDER NODE is in docked  state as DOCKER (active part, from which you can undock the connection) docked to the uid of STATION NODE. STATION NODE is in docked state as DOCKEE (passive part) docked to the uid of LANDER NODE. The CRAZY NODE is in docked state as DOCKER docked to the uid of LANDER NODE.

When I undock, CRAZY NODE stays docked as DOCKER to LANDER NODE and the connection between the other two nodes disengages. It does not matter if I undock from CRAZY NODE or from LANDER NODE,

I am trying to find the chain of events which led to LANDER NODE being docked to two different nodes at the same time, but this behaviour is obviously unintended. Has someone had such an event before? What could cause this? What kind of logs could help finding the error (Note: I will at some point upload a savegame with the issue, if my internet connection permits)

Could be a consequence of this bug. Dock ports have own logic which may get broken when KIS is used to modify the station. As a workaround, detach "crazy port" and put it into inventory (any). Then pull it out and attach back. This should reset the port' state. In the future avoid using KIS detach function to break connection between two docked ports. Only a properly undocked port behaves well for now.

[Andem]

12 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

If all you need is removing a debris you can do it from the space center. Just open the map, select the debris, and choose "delete".

That's the most offensive thing I've ever heard!!! 

1 hour ago, PTNLemay said:

I've just found the explosives part in my KIS modded career run, and I thought up a fun plan to use it as a self-destruct mechanism.  The top stage successfully delivers my payload to a keo-synchronous orbit, but now there's a big bulky piece of space debris near that orbit.  No problem, just slip a bomb onto that top stage and detonate it when you're a safe distance from the payload.

My problem is that... I can't seem to remote detonate it.  It looks like the only way to trigger the bombs to go is with a Kerbal.   Is this a bug, or is it meant to be this way?   Because... that really limits it's usage potential (in my own personal opinion).

It might be possible to use smart parts and kaboom to do what you're suggesting, although a dedicated part would be nice.