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Are jools moons realistic?

daniel l.

By daniel l.
in KSP1 Discussion

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Should laythe and tylo be changed and a new world added?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Should laythe and tylo be changed and a new world added?

    • Change laythe, Give it red skys and green oceans
      3
    • Change Tylo, Move its orbit outwards and add a new moon in its place,
      8
    • Both
      4
    • Neither
      72

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daniel l.

daniel l.

Posted
Posted

Take laythe for example, The early earths oceans were green from iron and the sky was red from CO2, All this is because there was no photosynthesizing life to make oxygen which would have rusted away the iron in the oceans and displaced the CO2 with oxygen, But since laythe apparently has no life why does it have blue skys and oceans? oxygen is a reactive gas even if a body formed with it as an atmosphere it would still be absorbed by the rocks, If laythe is lifeless it has to have Red skys and Green oceans.

Now how about Tylo? Its supposed to be a ganymede anologue, But its basically just a large Mun, And ganymede IRL has a underground ocean and a surface comprised of ice, So if laythe is the Io anologue and Vall is Europa, Then tylo more properly should be Callisto its orbit should be moved outwards and a new anologue world in its place.

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Felsmak

Felsmak

Posted
Posted
So you have no issue with green aliens with giant heads and 4 fingers having a space program being unrealistic, but the moons is where you draw the line? lol

Are you suggesting that Kerbals are less capable because they were created with green skin, large heads and four fingers? That's kinda racist.

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Wjolcz

Wjolcz

Posted
Posted (edited)

They should stay where they are, but if the colors of Laythe were to change slightly I wouldn't mind. Maybe atmo color to something between blue and green? Though I like it the way it is. When you're there it kind of reminds you of Kerbin. Just less green.

E:

Facts-about-Titan-the-Moon.jpg

Something like Titan, but without the brown layer. Though I think its false coloured anyway.

Edited by Veeltch
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Raptor9

Raptor9

Posted
Posted

I think the aim of the game is to model the complexities with rocketry and spaceflight physics within the limitations of a PC game engine. That level of scientific detail is an example of why the original resource system was scrapped due to over-complication.

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Thomas988

Thomas988

Posted
Posted

They're unrealistic, yes, but what we have now is perfectly fine! Honestly, a red laythe with green oceans sounds like the worst color palette imaginable, no offense. Plus, I think Tylo provides enough challenge to land on. :P

As others have pointed out, it is important KSP is a game, not a simulator.

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smjjames

smjjames

Posted
Posted
Take laythe for example, The early earths oceans were green from iron and the sky was red from CO2, All this is because there was no photosynthesizing life to make oxygen which would have rusted away the iron in the oceans and displaced the CO2 with oxygen, But since laythe apparently has no life why does it have blue skys and oceans? oxygen is a reactive gas even if a body formed with it as an atmosphere it would still be absorbed by the rocks, If laythe is lifeless it has to have Red skys and Green oceans.

Now how about Tylo? Its supposed to be a ganymede anologue, But its basically just a large Mun, And ganymede IRL has a underground ocean and a surface comprised of ice, So if laythe is the Io anologue and Vall is Europa, Then tylo more properly should be Callisto its orbit should be moved outwards and a new anologue world in its place.

I thought laythe doesn't really have a solar system analogue?

Also, the Jool system of moons doesn't have an Io analogue. The closest in chemical makeup would be Pol though.

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted (edited)

Vall should have been ejected from the Jool system. Also, the moons are entirely unrealistic for a host of reasons that have been discussed to death.

Edited by regex
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Renegrade

Renegrade

Posted
Posted
Given Tylos size in relation to other planets and moons, it seems like it should have some kind of atmosphere, even a light one.

I would like to see it turned into a kind of Titan analog, with lakes too.

Laythe I think is fine as is.

Well, if Tylo had an atmosphere, we'd have no high-grav no-atmosphere planets.. :/

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Whirligig Girl

Whirligig Girl

Posted
Posted
A lot of the land on Laythe is green 'grass', ergo photosynthesis, and we have no idea what life might be in the oceans.

There isn't even a little green on Laythe. There is in some mods, notably Alternis kerbol.

- - - Updated - - -

Vall should have been ejected from the Jool system. Also, the moons are entirely unrealistic for a host of reasons that have been discussed to death.

Vall doesn't get ejected if you account for barycenters.

- - - Updated - - -

The odd planetology of the Joolean moons is one of the things that makes KSP's star system unique and not just filled with mere dead iceballs. Each of them are challenging for gameplay reasons. If they were all generic moon-mercury sized (accounting for Kerbalized scale) objects, then it wouldn't be that interesting.

I am a bit curious regex. Do you think the Moons of Jool are actually bad?

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HoloYolo

HoloYolo

Posted
Posted

Watch this video. It shows Vall being flung off very fast. 1:20 is the time it leaves Jool. Barycenters by the way is where objects orbit each other. The Moon orbits Kerbin's barycenter, which is in the center. Charon, a moon of Pluto, orbit's a barycenter outside of Pluto. This makes a binary system. The barycenter for the Joolian system is in the middle of Jool. But, when nbody physics is added, the gravity of Tylo and Laythe move the barycenter out of Jool, making all smaller moons including Vall orbit this barycenter. Since the barycenter is close to Vall, it travels really fast near this barycenter. It gets flung out with gravity.

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted
Vall doesn't get ejected if you account for barycenters.
Interesting, I watched an n-body simulation of the Kerbin system and after @1000 years Vall was ejected. You have a source for the barycenter proof?
I am a bit curious regex. Do you think the Moons of Jool are actually bad?
I didn't say anything about them being "bad", I said they were entirely unrealistic for a host of reasons that have been discussed to death. There's a difference there if you care to see it (most apparently don't).

But, if we're going there, the entire Kerbin system is pretty dumb mainly because of the impossible densities of the planetary bodies. If we went straight off planetary and solar radii for an indication everything in the system would be a dwarf planet about the size of Ceres except for Jool, which would be a proper planet as we know it, and the sun would be a dim red M class star.

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Sanguine

Sanguine

Posted
Posted

It has been noted before that life could possibly survive in Laythe's oceans, due to the radiation shielding. I imagine there's a very real possibility that life could survive in Laythe's oceans. It's certainly possible, and would be extremely interesting for possible 'biological' science in the future.

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Renegrade

Renegrade

Posted
Posted
Interesting, I watched an n-body simulation of the Kerbin system and after @1000 years Vall was ejected. You have a source for the barycenter proof?

Well, in

, Mr Manley makes a comment about the barycenter issue. I don't want to comment on the accuracy of those simulations or statements, but my gut instinct on the Joolian subsystem is that even if it's unstable, it should be a relatively simple matter to re-order the muns so that they aren't flinging the light ones out into the main system. Perhaps by sorting 'em by mass, with Tylo on the inside, then Laythe, then Vall...

Anyhow, I think the weird density issue pales compared to the lack of inverse-square light falloff. Jool should be getting 3.91% light (relative to the light at Kerbin), not 50%...

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regex

regex

Posted
Posted
Well, in
, Mr Manley makes a comment about the barycenter issue.
I don't accept that for proof that the Kerbin system is stable because it requires that you correct the system variables as they stand. I'm not talking about Corrected Kerbin System, I'm talking about Kerbin System. Hell, if we're correcting for barycenters we should also be correcting for everything else that is wrong with the system.
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