The Oscar-B Awards! (Results Are Out!!)

[sDaZe]

Awww.... None of my videos on here

[Goddess Bhavani]

@Felbourn

I tried to reply to your PM but your inbox is full. I'm sending my scores to your YouTube PM box instead.

[Felbourn]

Mailbox fixed.

[Halban]

I've sent my picks along to Felbourn, it will be great to see who actually won this side of the competition. Felbourn would you mind posting the results here as soon as you've worked them out? I'm also wondering about the system you plan to use, I remember Upsilon had devised a special way of doing it that made it more fair.

[Goddess Bhavani]

PM resent, xmit successful this time. I'm on a phone and was surprised it could handle maximum length PMs. I actually did the video reviews in much greater detail as o thought it would be more appropriate to judge by video category first. Small scale, more personalised reviews, etc.

[Felbourn]

BTW-I'll probably hear from everyone sooner, but just in case... My plan right now is to wait 7 days and then ask any unresponsive judges again. After that I will wait 7 more days and just go with what I have received from those who did reply. If I do not hear from all of the judges, I will break any ties with an objective deciding vote of my own.

[Goddess Bhavani]

Sounds good. Expedience is a good strategy to avoid the fizzing out associated with long waits. Wonder if the main KSP community could assist by giving the Oscar-Bs a spotlight on social media one day, to sort of immortalize the valiant efforts of all in this endeavour, sealing the awesomeness in for all eternity.

(Wow omg, I don't know what I'm writing)

[BagelRabbit]

No video awards?

As far as I know us judges all sent in our video choices long ago :/

Oh, yea... video awards... good question.

I feel as if this needs a bit of explanation on my part, as I hate to seem like I just disappeared into thin air without completing the Oscar-B's. So, here's a brief explanation of what ended up happening.

~~~

So, I have a busier schedule than most and have to budget my time towards a wide variety of very different stuff. To make matters worse, my computer died a horrible death as I was doing final preparations for the first round of Oscar-B's. This meant I had to give the results over to Bob Fitch (who did a fantastic job of compiling them and creating a video). I figured that I would be able to start the second round as soon as a new computer came.

And then it didn't come. I spent a good long while finding a computer that wouldn't die prematurely, then waited for an equally long time as the thing was shipped (I still have no idea what took so long there).

Once the thing actually came, I joyously sent out a PM saying, "Okay, I'm ready to resume; please send in your scores!" Over the next couple of days, I got replies from most, but not all, of the judges. To make matters worse, the curtain of work descended again. I thought I would have some time to judge the videos myself and then compile results, but I simply didn't.

The worst part was that videos are a bit different than channels. While active channels regularly produce content, videos are snapshots of moments in time. There have been a lot of videos that have been posted since the start of this process, perhaps including some that are more worthy of the top spot than existing ones (IMO). So as time went on, the awards became more and more obsolete. After another two weeks of trying to work some time into my schedule and failing, I decided to give the project up.

I'm sorry I never told you guys this. I'm sorry I didn't have more time. To be honest, I sort of wish I had handed this idea over to someone more capable than me. But I guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

So if you guys need any more help, please send me a PM. I think I still have all of the video-judging entries, though I can't remember for certain...

-Upsilon

[Felbourn]

Here's where we are on this.

I received all the votes from all the judges, but only two of the categories had a clear cut winner. I have removed all the choices that received no votes at all, and resent a shortened list to each judge. Some judges have responded to my request for one follow-up vote, while two judges have not found the time yet. Once I have those last two sets of votes then I will be able to report the winners.

[Felbourn]

This was incredibly close.

There were two rounds of judge voting. In round one there were a lot of choices, and many categories ended up with a tie of 2 votes to 2 votes (while the other judge votes went 1 each to different videos). I cut the videos from the lists that did not get 2 votes and sent a new list to the judges with ONLY the videos that had 2+ votes or a tie result.

In round two the same judges cast votes again, but this time with usually only two choices it was easier to get a non-tie result. Still... it was VERY close.

You've all waited this long, I don't want to make you wait even longer for results, and I don't know how long it would take for me to make a video for the winners. So... here are the winners:

Best Video Overall: This is the best KSP video you’ve ever seen!

"Pale Blue Dot" - KSP Movie (Nassault)

Best Comedy Video: This video made you cry with laughter.

Scott Manley Landing an Actual SpaceX Rocket (Stefan Noack, Scott Manley)

Best Educational Video: This video was a great tool to educate KSP players.

Project Alexandria #1 (Bob Fitch)

Best Artistic Video: This video is the most gorgeous and cinematic video you’ve ever seen in KSP.

KSP Build Fly Dream Trailer (Shaun Esau)

Best Showcase Video: This video showed off a craft or idea perfectly.

Infernal Robotics Rework Trailer (Daz050571)

(continued)

Edited October 12, 2015 by Felbourn

[KasperVld]

All very deserving winners, though I think we could've easily picked two videos in each category.

[Felbourn]

It did not let me link all 7... only 5 of them, so I had to wait for a reply in between, which I now have. Here are the last two.

Best Video Series: This series of videos is simply awesome to watch, from beginning to end!

Project Odyssey (Bob Fitch)

Most Under-Watched Video: This video has fewer than 1,000 views (when nominated), but it needs more.

Watching Jeb Sleep (Felsmak)

- - - Updated - - -

All very deserving winners, though I think we could've easily picked two videos in each category.

Runners up in closely contested categories:

KSP - Constellation Mission.(katateochi)

Pawnington 10: Peeing on the Mun.(RoninPawn)

Kerbal Space Program- Ares: Voyage to Mars - RSS.(Chris P. Bacon)

Clubbing on the Mun (Munstep).(katateochi)

KSP: Stock System Grand Tour.(von Ziegendorf)

[HafCoJoe]

Great choices.

[Halban]

-

Edited December 29, 2020 by HatBat

[Xacktar]

Well deserved, but for next year I think it might be appropriate to approach this differently. We could get better results if we simply had an expert judge for each category to fairly analyse each nominee, no voting. Which would mean the winners are actually the best, and not just drawn from a compromise. It would remove a lot of the complications we've had. We should also make sure to nominate only videos made in the previous year, though it makes sense that this year had to be an exception as it was the first. Anyway, congrats to all the winners

That would be a lot easier on the judges as well, giving them a smaller pile of videos to sift through.

[Felbourn]

I'll have to disagree there. I think there should be as many judges as can be managed by the organizer. A single judge choosing for an entire category could easily choose a winner that 9 other judges of equal quality would not have picked. You could VERY easily get a case where the choices are "A or B" and 9 judges would pick A while 1 would pick B, and with that one judge in charge of the whole category you'll have a problem as B would incorrectly win.

The voting for the videos we JUST did is an example of this potential issue. In one category there was an initial vote of 2 for video A, 2 for video B, 1 for video C, and 0 for the other choices. So clearly videos A and B were "better" to more judges. If the C judge were solely in charge, video C would win with 1 vote while A and B lose with 2 votes each. That would not be fair.

The actual judging process needed to be streamlined though. There were too many choices for only 5 judges. The votes were bound to get spread around too thinly. There needed to be a round for trimming the choices (like how real Oscars do it) and then a round for real voting (like how real Oscars do it). As it happens that is what DID occur this time, since most of the categories were too thick to narrow the vote focus down in one round. Next year it should be declared that way from the start.

Overall I'd say things went fairly well though. The OP put a lot of work into the early phases of this, and the judges did a lot of quality judging work. All of them.

[HafCoJoe]

Hm... I'm in accordance with HatBat and Xacktar. That would be easier to manage. Maybe have a secondary panel as well as specialists?

[Felbourn]

Well at least there's a year-ish to consider it. If things did go that way, I think the judges would need to be limited to those of a minimum age or experience, and no vested interest in the outcome.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Felbourn

[Halban]

-

Edited December 29, 2020 by HatBat

[Felbourn]

Sometimes when one person doesn't agree with another, I see this thing where they think, "Any rational person who understood what I am trying to say would agree with me, so if they don't agree then they don't understand and I just need to explain it a different way." You're bringing back memories of my debate classes in the 1980s. Those were fun classes. I love debate.

You've restated your point and it's even more clear to me now that I have understood you all along. I still disagree. If you want to argue for multiple "content expert" judges per category then we can entertain that argument. I think you'd be hard pressed to find lots of experts in a subject matter that did not have entries in the category though. I think it's critical that the judges NOT have a vested interest in the outcome. It's why I did not volunteer.

Also, your argument suggests that I can't possibly rate a movie unless I am in the film industry, or that I can't judge the quality of food unless I am a chef. Consumers can very well judge produced content, regardless of whether they make that content themselves. It's kind of the point of public judging.

I do agree with you that next year more care can go into the judge selections. I think this year could be a fluke and the five judges were awesome, but who knows what might happen next year. I also agree that it's less ideal to say "nominate anything you want but only once" and "we need judges, hey who wants to help." There should be standards to ensure next year is as good as this year. But I also think that it was a good choice by the OP given that it was the first attempt at this. Lessons were learned. It can be done better only with this hindsight.

I still think the selected five did a great job though, since I either agree with the results or at least understand them. Individual category judges is not an answer to any problems you may have perceived.

[Halban]

-

Edited December 29, 2020 by HatBat

[Felbourn]

You used the Oscars as an example. They are voted on by a panel, not individuals. Yes they are smart and "in the industry." So were the judges of these Kerbal Oscars. They were all smart and well into the game.

A lot of smart people put a lot of thought into how real Oscars are done. For YEARS now. There is no sense in reinventing the wheel. Simulating what others have done, and done well, is better than trying to come up with something new most of the time. What should be fixed for OUR implementation is HOW to get from "we have no judges" to "we have a relatively Oscars-level panel." We would want to fix what was different from real ones, not change how they work entirely. We should use a panel of experts. It's more fair than one expert.

So, maybe approach this from another point of view. No one tries to fix anything and debate this hard for change unless they think something is broken. In this case, the only logical reason to believe things were broken is if you believe one of the category winners was not the best choice, and that the judges would have selected differently if they were more "subject matter expert" in the category. We will never know if we can fix the problem without simulating "what might have happened if we did this a different way?" So in this case we'd need to have an example of where you think THIS Oscar's selections failed.

What video should have won, but didn't?

Who should have judged the category by themself? Would we even have access to such a judge?

And what video do we think that solo judge would have picked? Would it even match what you think should have happened?

If all of these don't work out in favor of a better result (in your mind) then your solution fails too, even if we want to make the claim these recent votes didn't succeed either. (Which I don't agree with, but for the sake of debate let's pretend I did.)

[Xacktar]

A lot of smart people put a lot of thought into how real Oscars are done. For YEARS now. There is no sense in reinventing the wheel.

The Oscars can also afford to enlist all these people for their manpower and prestige. We're a bunch of silly folk on a video game forum who spend their spare time here. I know that part of the reason Upsilon never finished the results was that judges dropped out or stopped responding. As a panel, that means the voting had to be redone by everyone. A single judge would not have created this issue as Upsilon could have just asked for a replacement judge for that particular category or would at least have been able to get all the other results out.

While it is true that a panel would be much better for choosing a representative win, it was also very time-consuming and hard to organize since we were all volunteers... and this is all done for fun anyways. No one gets cash prizes or little statues of golden explosions... so it should be fun for all parties, including the judges.

In the end, you're thinking what would make the best result, Hatbat is thinking what would be the most practical to prevent problems. You're both right in your own way.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Xacktar

[Felbourn]

You said some things that either contradict themselves, are wrong, or actually support my case.

The Oscars can also afford to enlist all these people for their manpower and prestige.

You're saying we can't afford to enlist as easily. I agree. This supports my case. As far as I know, OP asked for volunteers and everyone who said they would help was allowed to help. That means every subject matter expert that Hat is looking for needed to come out of that list. I think every judge we had was perfectly acceptable to judge every category, just as you'd be equally qualified to tell me if you liked your food at a restaurant. You don't need to BE an artist to know what good art is.

I know that part of the reason Upsilon never finished the results was that judges dropped out or stopped responding.

I'm pretty sure OP said that was not the case. I contacted every judge to get their original votes, and EVERY judge said to me "this is what I sent before, so I will just send it again." Just like you.

As a panel, that means the voting had to be redone by everyone.

Everyone just sent me their original email. It was not a "revote."

A single judge would not have created this issue as Upsilon could have just asked for a replacement judge for that particular category or would at least have been able to get all the other results out

Who decides who's "good enough" to be a judge in a category? Could I judge "artistic"? Could I judge "comedic"? Keep in mind how hard it was to find ANY judges. Why are we going to magically find a perfect subject matter single judge for a category on short notice that no one is going to complain about not being well-versed enough to judge that category?

so it should be fun for all parties, including the judges

First of all, everyone needs to know that there is a little bit of work taking on any project, and if you can't afford to put in some effort, you should not volunteer. You said so yourself. These were volunteers. A volunteer chooses to take part. You can also choose to NOT take part. If you DO choose to take part, I think you need to assume a small amount of effort is required.

I think my question stands for you as well then, since you're also passionate about this. You would not be so passionate if you didn't think a mistake was made, so what video should have won, but didn't? Who should have judged the category by themself? How can we know that a different solution from what was done would actually produce a result EVERYONE is happy with? That's the point right? To make everyone happy?

[Halban]

-

Edited December 29, 2020 by HatBat