Will KSP mods ever turn Paid?

[Fengist]

EDIT- Did anyone beg you to mod ? If you don't like the rules there are more places for you to go and try and get rich best of luck to you.

Or, you can enter a debate that tries to get the rules changed.

Spears and arrows have been replaced with money. If you're equating survival to greed then thank God our distant ancestors were greedy.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Fengist

[Randazzo]

I think you need to read what I've posted before you start slinging insults. I do not create mods because of the license agreement and I have created something original and I do have a job.

Slinging insults? No, I could do much better if I was slinging insults.

I was simply pointing out that your argument (which again tries to draw a parallel that doesn't work) was based on a fallacious concept, and that there are means of 'getting paid'.

It's pretty clear you're just on a soapbox.

[Fengist]

It's pretty clear you're just on a soapbox.

Many a man has changed the world while standing on a soap box.

[Randazzo]

Many a man has changed the world while standing on a soap box.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[Mecripp]

Right now the best thing for KSP to stay like it is this is free research and labor they can see what most people like and don't and what all it can be.

[3Dave]

And why not? The shareware I created was out of necessity. I wanted a program to work a certain way. After I was done, I released it as freeware. A day and 10,000 downloads later I realized I'd created something that I not only wanted but something others wanted. So, was I obligated to keep that program freeware because I suddenly thought I could improve and sell it?

Necessity is the mother of invention. And because of inventors who saw a necessity, you have wondrous marvels, like electricity, automobiles, airplanes, cell phones, etc. If the people who invented those things were told, you shouldn't charge for them, they would have had no reason to give them away.

You're asking mod creators to be altruistic. Do you use your education and talents to be altruistic? Do you give those skills away for free? If so, send me enough cash that I can live my life without having to worry about bills and I'll be a philanthropist too.

I think you need to read what I've posted before you start slinging insults. I do not create mods because of the license agreement and I have created something original and I do have a job.

I think the main issue here is that you are comparing mods to actual stand alone software products. Your coming from the angle of a regular developer, not a hobbyist making a mod script for a game on the side. I'm fairly sure that all modders have a day job, since it would be impossible to make a living off of mods given the current prohibition on selling them/donation only. For some they may be amateur/indie game developers wanting to make something to showcase their skills, or they could be professional software developers like yourself who just want to see what they can do with their favorite game on the side as a personal project.

If you look at things without your business goggles on, it becomes clearer. I have put myself in an industry that depends on selling digital assets in the form of 3D models to game developers and animation producers, so i understand where your coming from. But I also have created mods before for other games, and im not sure if im just strange, but i never looked at mods as a source of income. To me they are a source of fun and challenge without any external requirements or expectations. Would it be nice if we could sell mods? of course it would, it might give me incentive to create some parts packs for KSP using my considerable skill. will the lack of ability to profit from mods STOP me from making a mod if i was so inclined? No, it would not. The only thing stopping me is lack of need. The existing parts packs cover pretty much anything i can think of/want to see.

[regex]

I'm again going to reiterate that not everyone is independently wealthy enough to sit and write code and still afford to eat. I'm one of those people. While forced open source may foster this great community amongst those who can write code for free, it slams the door in the face of those of us who can't.

Maybe ... you should look for a better job? Honestly, if you're having trouble paying for food spending time on what is clearly a hobby is probably a bad idea. I'm not independently wealthy myself (boy would that be great, huh?) and work forty hours a week to help my family. If I wasn't making enough you can be sure the last thing I'd be doing is spending time trying to scrape donations from, or arguing that I should be allowed to charge for, my hobby.

[AlphaAsh]

Oh it's this discussion. Again.

I'm trying so hard not to just explode in a puddle of sarcasm in response to what I'm reading. Could anyone posting in this thread, seriously just take a moment to think about just how degrading this continues to be for modders, especially those of us who have been trying to make a living from what we consider to be a valuable skillset? I'm an inch from rage-quitting modding KSP, hell modding full stop, because the same scaremongering rubbish continues to be spewed whenever the unjust taboo subject of modders charging for what they do comes around. Right now, I feel like I need a year away from the internet. Maybe I can spend that time getting a real job or re-qualified for one?

...or arguing that I should be allowed to charge for, my hobby.

regex; 1 - We shouldn't have to argue. 2 - In my case, it's not a hobby. It IS part of my job.

Edited April 27, 2015 by AlphaAsh

[Randazzo]

Could anyone posting in this thread, seriously just take a moment to think about just how degrading this continues to be for modders, especially those of us who have been trying to make a living from what we consider to be a valuable skillset?

There's no doubt about the value of the skillset, only the application of it.

[regex]

regex; 1 - We shouldn't have to argue. 2 - In my case, it's not a hobby. It IS part of my job.

Again, I don't have a problem with people getting paid to mod, or charging for their mods. Unfortunately, KSP runs on a source available model which makes charging for (code) mods, especially those advertised on this site, very hard or nearly impossible to do. The old adage "labor follows money" would dictate that you try to find another source of revenue, another game to mod perhaps, rather than wasting time trying to change something that isn't likely to change. Considering the licenses around here and the interchange of code, not to mention the requirements for advertising here, and the expected mod delivery method of Curse, you're not likely to get that changed.

[3Dave]

Oh it's this discussion. Again.

I'm trying so hard not to just explode in a puddle of sarcasm in response to what I'm reading. Could anyone posting in this thread, seriously just take a moment to think about just how degrading this continues to be for modders, especially those of us who have been trying to make a living from what we consider to be a valuable skillset? I'm an inch from rage-quitting modding KSP, hell modding full stop, because the same scaremongering rubbish continues to be spewed whenever the unjust taboo subject of modders charging for what they do comes around. Right now, I feel like I need a year away from the internet. Maybe I can spend that time getting a real job or re-qualified for one?

Not sure i understand where your coming from with these feelings. Up until a few days ago the thought of selling mods would not have crossed any of our minds. So why do you suddenly feel like rage quitting? Its not like you have been fighting for the right to sell mods for 2 years and are burnt out from the struggle. this is literally a 3 day old debate.

The skills you have developed while creating mods are very valuable. You can get a job with a small indie game developer, even if its just a revenue share payment model. or you can do what i did, and start selling assets on contract (if your artistically inclined). Its best not to focus on what you have already done and demand payment where none was originally expected, but find out how to leverage your current skills into a pay check. Just calm down and dont worry about what people say about modding in general. This is still a very raw topic based on a totally different game/mod community and people are throwing around emotions instead of thinking through the issue. I was guilty of this at first as well but i have sense moderated my thinking a little.

[AlphaAsh]

Its not like you have been fighting for the right to sell mods for 2 years and are burnt out from the struggle. this is literally a 3 day old debate.

Erm. Yes I have. And it's been going on for nearly two decades.

...or you can do what i did, and start selling assets on contract (if your artistically inclined)

That's what I do. I tried working in a couple of studios - we didnt get on No surprise there.

...people are throwing around emotions instead of thinking through the issue. I was guilty of this at first as well but i have sense moderated my thinking a little.

I did recognise that. Thank you. <- Serious smiley. No sarcasm intended. Your self-moderation is admirable sir

Edited April 27, 2015 by AlphaAsh

[Mecripp]

Erm. Yes I have. And it's been going on for nearly two decades.

( two decades ) Ksp isn't that old ?

[AlphaAsh]

Its not like you have been fighting for the right to sell mods

I've been modding games since Doom, MeCripp.

[Mecripp]

This isn't Doom and you started modding ksp knowing the rules thinking you was going to get paid and knowing your not and, IMO don't think it's that people don't think modders shouldn't get paid, And sure would think more people would give if they had it to give but to think you started modding KSP banking on getting paid is just alittle crazy IMO after all it's a beta and you are asking someone to paid for something that might not work the next update and might not ever work again, Would think this is for people that like doing what they do and some to learn how to do it.

[AlphaAsh]

...knowing the rules thinking you was going to get paid... to think you started modding KSP banking on getting paid is just alittle crazy...

I didn't think I was going to get paid. I didn't bank on getting paid.

[godefroi]

I lean libertarian, so I fully support modder's attempts to get paid. I also support Squad's attempts to prevent paid mods. In this case, Squad's rights trump modder's rights.

Based on past experience, I would guess that modding communities will see paid mods as damage, and will "route around" it, but reproducing paid mods' functionality in free mods. It happened in World of Warcraft.

Squad also (is my guess) would quickly act to forbid in-game advertising or even "donate" buttons in-game, so that's not likely to be an option either.

But it's likely not a big deal anyway. Anyone who's really modding for the money would pick a much larger market to play in.

[Mecripp]

I for one would like to thank all you modders for doing what you do and making KSP better and better, Thanks ! for all the work and time, Really ya'll make it so much better.

EDIT- And people for all the mods you like take alittle bit of your time and hit that little STAR on there post or thread and give them some Rep and A Thank You.

[OrbitusII]

I don't have a problem with modders getting paid for what they do, and I think much of the community here agrees with that. What I do have a problem with is an unregulated mod market where anyone can charge any price for their work, which is what Steam has now. If paying for mods must be monetized, it must also be regulated in order to provide security for the end users.

By regulation, I mean:

- moderation of the market. It can't be left to its own devices

- a controlled inlet for paid mods. Letting anyone charge any price for any amount/quality of work is foolish

I won't charge money for my mods, but I can understand the desire to do so. It's a lot of work for something that has been a hobby for as long as I have been involved in it. If you want to recieve compensation for your work you are justified, but I don't think modders should support a system (Steam's Paid Workshop) that has been flawed from the beginning.

[Randazzo]

If you want to recieve compensation for your work you are justified, but I don't think modders should support a system (Steam's Paid Workshop) that has been flawed from the beginning.

Honestly, a quick look at the steam workshop is actually a relief.

There are (currently) 17 mods that now require a payment to download.

There are 25,257 mods that remain free.

Granted, it's only been a couple of days.

[OpenWorldAddict]

It saddened me to see a topic that was totally unrelated to KSP be taken up here.

However, with that said... it's over. Valve has taken the paid mods option off the skyrim workshop. So, there.. let's drop it and move on. We have a wonderful KSP 1.0 on our hands.

[3Dave]

It saddened me to see a topic that was totally unrelated to KSP be taken up here.

However, with that said... it's over. Valve has taken the paid mods option off the skyrim workshop. So, there.. let's drop it and move on. We have a wonderful KSP 1.0 on our hands.

Yup, Bethesda had Valve remove the paid mods and refund all those who purchased. But the fight has more or less destroyed the Skyrim modding community for the near future, and its spilled over and created tension in other modding communities like this game. I hope we can all take the lessons learned by Bethesda to heart and move forward to find a fair and equitable way to compensate quality mod creators for their hard work while still preserving the fun, open, and community driven nature of PC game modding in general

[WinkAllKerb'']

It saddened me to see a topic that was totally unrelated to KSP be taken up here.

"The return of the greed" & "the viral youtube video adds lotery strike back" same concept, same result at medium/short term.

i myself don't get the point regarding current gaming industry recent evolution already saturated with: new games project / day ratio / mods per games + if someone/a team is able to do such a great mods that he desserve some reward (s)he/they should dev there own game concept to get rewarded and not only a single mod for an existing game and it's provided wisywyg api.

Edited April 28, 2015 by WinkAllKerb''
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